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Canada takes U.S. to WTO in wide-ranging trade complaint

225 comments
89% Upvoted
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276 points · 6 months ago

We in Canada will never forget how you screwed us on softwood lumber.

And Bombardier.

And the Avro-Arrow.

-6 points · 6 months ago(0 children)
123 points · 6 months ago

and NAFTA in general.

You also have support from a lot of British people on the whole Bombardier thing. Though the British government can't do much, because even though Bombardier hires a lot of people here, Boeing hires more...

Those planes need wings...and you build them. We know this and appreciate it.

-7 points · 6 months ago(7 children)

This is the difficult thing. When America is in trouble people like Trump are the first to expect Australians, Canadians and Brits to have their back.

To borrow his parlance, it's sad that Trump thinks making America great will happen at the expense of her allies instead of her enemies.

Would love to see the US reaction if shit kicked off in Pakistan or somewhere and the UK kicked them out of Diego Garcia. It's the only airfield in the region they're happy flying B-2s through. Also major part of their satellite network.

tbh they'd probably just seize it from their 'greatest ally' if it ever happened.

Trump's reply: DO NOT CARE. CANADA CAN GO AND DIE. We here in America are busy doing IMPORTANT things.

Like killing off the environment?

-5 points · 6 months ago(0 children)

I'm American. You're probably Russian because well its 6am on a Sunday. I'm only up because my hockey game starts at 9am and I'm hungover.

Is this satire? I honestly can’t tell any more.

17 more replies

There are many things I don't like about Trudeau, but it's hard to argue that he isn't standing up for us right now.

42 points · 6 months ago

Ya, on various domestic issues, like electoral reform, he's been disappointing. And the ethics complaints, while largely politically motivated, shouldn't have been allowed to drag on for so long and should have been nipped in the bud immediately so they didn't become a sideshow.

But that said, given how hard these geopolitcal waters are to navigate when Trump in the Whitehouse, I've been consistently happy with the way we've handled things globally. For now I'll happily set aside any gripes I have with Trudeau if it allows us to keep facing forward and to keep our geopolitical stability as secure as possible. I do worry that the electoral reform decision could split the vote and hand the Conservatives a win, but I hope people see the importance of avoiding another Conservative government during these crazy times in the world. We can't afford the CPC winning in 2019 or I fear we'll follow the US once again rather than breaking away to make our own future at a time when we desperately need to.

[deleted]
8 points · 6 months ago

From a politics stand-point, this is a bit of a gift for Trudeau, all he needs to do is not roll over to the Americans and he will look good. There are no difficult decisions to make, just don't accept a bad deal. The issues come after NAFTA dissolves, when the economy could potentially contract.

Although it's very difficult and unfair to compare the real to the imagined - I think Trudeau is dealing with this 500% better than Andrew Scheer would.

[deleted]
2 points · 6 months ago

Harper wrote an Op-Ed basically hating on Trudeau for not giving into Trumps demands.

That will be bad for everyone involved too.

[deleted]
3 points · 6 months ago

It's weird because an economic downturn will really screw up Trumps support, people are willing to put up the eccentricity until their jobs are on the line. If the US employment rate goes down, Trump is going to have everyone turn on him.

I doubt it highly.

They already think the upswing is all down to Trump rather than it having been increasing in strength since Obama.

He'll tweet that its Obamas fault somehow and his base laps it up even if it hurts them directly.

This is very true. The government has been doing a great job not backing down or giving in.

Be glad for Trudeau. No leader you will get is perfect. But as long he stands for you guys in times of need, that is what matters the most. Cheers from Czech Republic, wish us luck in elections!

0 points · 6 months ago

Other than that he wants to add random social justice talking points to NAFTA.

The bilateral friction over lumber trade dates back to 1982, when the U.S. softwood lumber industry brought a complaint

Never forget? In order to forget, you need to remember in the first place.

Sep 4, 2002 - Canada recently won another appeal at the World Trade Organization against new American tariffs on softwood lumber

This has happens every generation, same party involved, same outcomes. We get our day in court, we win, they do it again later...the circle of life goes on.

Yes and people remember that.

But how do they keep doing it. Reddit told me that the WTO was more powerful than any government.

In the end Canada won, though...

The billions collected in tariffs were returned to Canadian lumber mills, who used that money to buy American lumber mills. We effectively have control of North American lumber.

...and the same kind of thing is going to happen again...

11 points · 6 months ago

Only half of the tarrifs were returned.

The billions collected in tariffs were returned to Canadian lumber mills

Not all of it. Harper made a deal with Bush and it was a really pathetic amount. It was a lot less than half so I'm not sure what is being referred to elsewhere. America has all the leverage. They'll throw a bone here and there to uphold some semblance of fairness, but it's not fair.

Comment deleted6 months ago(1 child)

I hope the US gets out of a lot of things.

10 points · 6 months ago

Well why the heck do I have to pay US $14.99 for a small bottle of maple syrup for my pancakes? And why do I have to steal my hockey stream from CBC because your commentators are so much better than ESPN? Meet us halfway my ass.....

Dude maple syrup is expensive!

We're not unreasonable people. Remove Mike Millbury, either from TV or this mortal coil, and we'll talk.

As for maple syrup, it's complicated. There was a dramatic drop in prices years ago and a bunch of producers went under. So now they run that shit like OPEC or De Beers. All producers sell to the FPAQ, and then they control 3/4 of the global syrup supply.

You probably heard about the guys who stole $30M in syrup about 5 years ago? They stole it from the "Global Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve" controlled by FPAQ.

2 points · 6 months ago

Sure did hear about the great maple syrup heist. Didn't know it was a cabal, explains the prices, still I pay directly it gladly and add it my pancakes.

It's an evil cabal. They even use police to 'enforce' their sole purchasing requirements. No one in Quebec can sell maple syrup to anyone else. They'll even show up and tag all the syrup and leave cops there to prevent any going missing. They even tried to force non Quebec based maple syrup producers to join them. Thankfully they failed that.

Don’t know why you got downvotes. It’s a complex issue and like all such issues there are multiple facets.

Some people like their evil cabals? Supply management groups in Canada can be debatably useful, or not, but most of them aren't as aggressive against producers like the maple syrup cartel.

8 points · 6 months ago

Ok, you deserve a real answer about lumber. First I grew up in Oregon, then lived in Alaska for 13 years, played Beer League Hockey and love the Great White North. I'm a life long news junky and read news daily.

Here is my assessment: Oregon is a lumber state. It's set up as part of our tax system and lumber sales fund schools and other stuff. We have a long time Senator named Ron Wyden. He does a good job for our state and is quite powerful in the Senate. His reelection campaign is funded by Oregon business interest, including the powerful lumber lobby.

So I'm not sure if this is true or not, it was in an article I read, but at some point supposedly the Canadian Government started a subsidized program for your lumber industry by not charging your companies for timber on government lands. The US, and Oregon does charge a fee for lumber cut on government lands. Supposedly this is a violation of NAFTA, not sure, and makes your lumber unfairly cheaper than Oregon lumber.

Well Ron Wyden fought for his states, Oregons, lumber business, the same business that funds his election campaign, and the tax base that pays for Oregon kids schools, the lumber sales funds the tax base, remember?

So now we are in a lumber war. I still love my Canadian cousins, God bless hockey and maple syrup and daper don.

Good description from the american perspective. The wikipedia article is actually pretty good too. It boils down to the fact that we have a lot of government owned land with trees on it and the government sells the logging rights at a certain price point that is not regulated by the market. because its cheap the us says we subsidize. the fact is we just have more supply and less demand for trees so they end up being cheeper, if it wasnt government owned they would still be cheap.

5 points · 6 months ago

Very true, Canada has way more forest than the US for lumber. Oregon is the #1 provider for US lumber because of our messed up tax base. Once we change to a sales tax base instead if an income tax base we will not be so dependant on lumber sales to bolster our tax base. There are still powerful economic interests though who do not want a sales tax base so it's a slow process. I for one would like to see the trees stay in the forest here, and see a more stable tax base.

Canada does not subsidize lumber. That is why Canada keeps winning at the WTO.

Comment deleted6 months ago(3 children)
7 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

No. Three methods exist in Canada.

  1. Long term license agreements for a piece of land & management. This includes reforestation, these are leased and come with strict regulations and costs associated. Inspections every other year etc

  2. Volume based methods, where you are charged per tree harvested (stumpage) and the goverment manages the land.

  3. Volume based where the company manages the land.

In all cases you pay the government (tax) and adhere to their regulatory requirements. You pay more / tree if the government has to come out and fix your shit. Or you can be a competent efficient company and fix that land to reduce overall costs.

One of the biggest differences between Canada and the US is that most forestry land is publicly held, whereas in the states the majority is privately held. So instead of paying both the government and the private owner in the US; you're pretty much just paying the government in Canada.

http://www.cif-ifc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Softwood_Lumber_Dispute.pdf

Another problem is Canada has so god dam much of this forestry land; short of the government artificially inflating the price - the sheer laws of the supply and demand will mean it will always be cheaper when compared to the US, assuming proper infrastructure.

Why is the last part important? because the strongest possible argument the US has presented is that Canadian governments set their stumpage rate too low in order to subsidise the industry. When in fact the auctions where these take place are open to anyone, meaning the provinces compete against one another in national marketplace trying to attract forestry companies to come take their trees. All in the second largest country in the world which has magnitudes more trees than people.

tldr; there are more costs of doing business in the States; and the government(s) who own the land in Canada are generally speaking; bending to the will of the market where trees are super abundant.

Lumber isn't just "free" to cut down in Canada, whoever told you that is grossly misinformed.

I read it in an article in the paper. As I started above. This is not my personal position or political stance, but what has been in the newspaper here in the States. I personally have no stake in lumber whatever.

-10 points · 6 months ago(0 children)

What happened?

I knew it was the iron/lumber thing again. It's like every year.

[deleted]
1 point · 6 months ago

Do Canadians support the repeal of the NAFTA?

-9 points · 6 months ago(8 children)

Canada does not subsidize lumber. Thatis why Canada keeps winning at the WTO.

False. They do subsidize when they. The Canadian lumber industry is unfairly subsidized by federal and provincial governments, as most timber in Canada is owned by the provincial governments. The prices charged to harvest the timber (stumpage fee) are set administratively, rather than through the competitive marketplace

Again, Canada does not subsidize lumber. That is why Canada keeps winning at the WTO and of course within NAFTA which although it does not definitely include lumber its dispute mechanism has been used and agreed upon by all parties.

And because it is a set price everyone gets access to the national resource not just the huge lumber firms with the most money.

So .... it is subsidized. You are NOT giving the government the worth of the timber.

I suppose when Boeing called out the subsidy of the Bombardier Inc’s C Series jet you thought that was unfair too. An entire airplane being sold for the price of the two GE engines!

Charge what the timber is worth then subsidize some small loggers in other ways. Why shouldn't the big loggers pay?

The market value of the timber is determined by the government based on the supply and demand. Canada has a huge supply. There is no subsidy payed to the lumber companies.

Again, Canada does not subsidize lumber. That is why Canada keeps winning at the WTO and of course within NAFTA which although it does not definitely include lumber its dispute mechanism has been used and agreed upon by all parties.

Again, Canada IS subsidizing their lumber when they do not sell to the highest bidder. If the Canadian government put the timber up for bid would they make more or less for each section logged?

What is the difference between not charging full value for the timber and dumping planes on the market for the cost of their two GE engines alone?

Canada does charge full value for its raw lumber resources. It is not the fault of the Canadian government that raw US lumber costs more than what the Canadian governments consider is a fair market value.

Also note that Canadian lumber companies are also more efficient than their US counter parts this also keeps the price of finished Canadian lumber much more competitive as well.

Then just put the blocks out for competitive bids.

This is nothing short of cringe worthy....

I think we're even now though since you guys gave us Justin Bieber.

Comment deleted6 months ago(More than 22 children)

Sorry it’s so hard to economically bully your neighbours eh.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

Problem is, the US ignores the fact that they lose the court ruling every time. The rule of law is meaningless to them.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

You're likely a high school kid Incapable of taking care of himself without laws to protect you. Laws matter.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

What do you mean by “would of”? Sorry I am not a native speaker so perhaps you can advise me if this the same as “would’ve” or “would have”?

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

extrajudicial killings and extraordinary renditions.

No they won't.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

You think you'd be better off in a lawless society? Why don't you start mugging people and see how that works out for you?

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

Yes you did. You said might makes right. Time to show your might.

[deleted]
5 points · 6 months ago(0 children)
Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

3 more years until you go back to being the "forgotten men and women" you so thoroughly deserve to be. The rest of us can't wait.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

Lol @ conservatives trying to insult the intelligence and composure of someone else. I'll have you know, i'm a very stable genius.

2 more replies

It’s unfortunate for all of us in Canada that our money and technology can be given away to large entities for literally $0. This type of thievery isn’t new.

But, airbus may prove to be a good partner for our product. They may even have the expertise and corrupt contacts to sell this sucker to more clients than bombardier proved capable of in the last few years.

I choose to remain optimistic in this situation. bombardier and airbus have an opportunity to develop a relationship and find synergies in their business units that may in fact lead to more work for bombardier and Canadians.

As a Canadian that’s what I expect and anticipate.

If Harper was in power I would expect bombardier to be a unit of Boeing by now and be waiting for the day when all manufacturing moves from Toronto and Montreal to Seattle and North Carolina.

Ok Airbus paid 1 euro to Bombardier actually.

Otherwise, it’s not a bad deal for both Airbus and Bombardier (and the government of Quebec who spend a lot in the C series).

For Airbus they now have a nice Series of planes. And a way to give a middle finger to Boeing.

For Bombardier, they know have access to assembly lines of Airbus and a huge marketing power that will bring a lot of money (well I mean contracts that will bring money). Hell it might even give more money than if Bombardier was alone. And also give a middle finger to Boeing.

Meanwhile Boeing will try to get Embraer which will most likely fail since Brazil won’t give up one of its major industry that’s easy.

Edit : a word

As a Canadian, I used to love having America as our closest ally (I still do) but the days are getting rough when the current American leadership is breaking apart the trust we had strengthen over the century..

61 points · 6 months ago

Yeah the good old days before the U.S. was a laughing-stock to the whole world...

-195 points · 6 months ago(25 children)

No we need each other. Canada is the US' second largest trading partner. We rely heavily on each other to have a fairly porous border and free trade in order to support vast sections of each other's economy.

Who else is going to buy $320 billion of the US goods where you can ship a majority of it cheaply and safely?

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada

21 points · 6 months ago

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Growing the global economy is our interest. Our dollar is the reserve currency used around the world, and we want to keep it that way so we can maintain our gigantic deficits. You fear the globalists, but you have no problem taking their money to finance the latest round of tax cuts I bet.

9 more replies

87 points · 6 months ago

This attitude is the exact reason why most of the world makes fun of Americans. Honestly Canadians are one of few nations that see Americans in a positive light. Canada has no enemies.

I had two of my friends die serving in Afghanistan in response to 9/11. It's really sickening to see someone posting shit like this when my friends are in a coffin for helping the US.

/u/Cavmax what /u/lovv is trying to tell you is that you're an asshole.

But he's responding to u/AlamoDefender...

5 more replies

Arrogant american? Well I'll be damned.

Get off your high horse bud no one gives a fuck about you and no one cares about your country as much as you think they do

What makes you think you'll get what you want by having the entire world hostile to you?

[deleted]
3 points · 6 months ago(0 children)
Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

Yup, because of the one attack of cutting a hijab all Canadians have fallen to terribleness. Just like every American is a school shooter and racist.

1 more reply

A lot of that was sort of a fake trust.

For example under Obama (leadership that wasn't hostile to trade but actually tried to make a legacy off of it) put in place laws that allowed for labels to read "American Made" even though we have a very integrated system that doesn't really allow for something to be fully American or Canadian made.

American companies began dumping drywall into Alberta and Saskatchewan to take advantage of the construction boom that was happening there and the Canadian government put a tariff on it... which of course caused the costs of rebuilding homes in burnt down Fort McMurray to skyrocket.

It has never been a stable relationship. But the costs of these minor tariffs have always been worth keeping the agreement. The Americans have always known this since the beginning and could always put in these tariffs.

Donald Trump as far as putting on tariffs isn't doing something outside of the range of normal relations. Nor is Canada in fighting them doing anything unusual here. This sort of tit for tat thing has been going on for 30 years.

It's why NAFTA should be modernized to include all these sorts of things that have just nonstop been things.

That’s a well laid out argument, but I think everyone can agree that Trump has Zero ability to renegotiate NAFTA.

Maybe he could scrap it and give the Chinese a new trade partner like he did with TPP.

5 points · 6 months ago

Which is what some of us are most worried about - he's a fucking dickwit for sure, but I'm thinking mid and long term.. how long will it take to rebuild trust with allies? How many fuckups are we going to be paying for to the tune of years or decades, all long after him and all his buddies have already cashed in and cashed out on all of this President thing, and left everyone else with the fallout.

I’m more concerned about American society in general. Trump, for all his flaws is merely what Hannah Arendt would call the subterranean river than runs through our history bursting out of the ground and washing away the dignity of our institutions. Long after he’s gone, that river will still run through us... and social media seems to be the perfect conduit to pipe it up to the surface daily, rather than once every generation.

0 points · 6 months ago

America has been fucking with the trust of their allies for 70 years.

"America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests." - Henry Kissinger

If America isn't playing fairly then Canada has no choice but to take protective measures. This will not help America or Canada as a whole but at least Canada won't be exploited by America.

if you people were smart you would ban US coal, you would not only have something to bargain with but you would also knock the ever-living shit out of the areas that voted for trump. Just about every single piece of american coal that leaves the US leaves via canada and there really is no other way to do it without a massive amount of port restructuring that would take years in what is already a dying industry.

I never thought I would be in a position where I am cheering on Canada over the American Appalachians but here we are.

The idea has been thrown around by BC gov- we just don’t want to get into a trade war.

12 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

The idea has been thrown around by BC gov- we just don’t want to get into a trade war.

I sense there's a lot more global buy in from both a political, economic, and let's be honest, personal, stand point today. China is much more of a factor today than it was previously, and the Canadians have taken steps to get a bespoke FTA with the EU

The big question in all of this would how might the American population respond? Would they go all Fox and Friends on the world and break out the lapel badges (again). Or would they turn their anger on Trump and his kow towing to corporations?

[deleted]
8 points · 6 months ago

Average Americans would be pissed at Canada. Union and Trade leaders who actually pay attention would be mad at Trump. And make no mistake, those are the people that actually matter. The coal lobbyists would have a fucking conniption.

6 points · 6 months ago

Yup. We make take an economic hit if we start sanctioning the states, but given they import more from us than any other country, we can target those sanctions in a way that ultimately hurts GOP officials up for re-election. Once lobbyists start screaming at congress, you'll see congress start to change its tune on supporting Trump. Its already becoming political suicide to keep supporting him, but if you get corporate blowback after Canada cuts the US off, you'll see congress move for impeachment ASAP.

If Canada was willing to take a short/medium term economic hit, we could single handedly end Trump.

OK, someone set up a 'fund me' page for Canada. I'm sure the world would chip in. Come to think of it, I suspect half of America would too

We're in a trade war

-24 points · 6 months ago(More than 9 children)

We are standing up for ourselves - we’re taking them to court. And we’ve won every time previously on things like softwood lumber. Why would we do any different?

Edit; spelling

We are standing up for ourselves - we’re taking them to court. And we’ve won every time previously on things like softwood lumber. Why would we do any different?

Chances are Canada will win again and Trump will withdraw the US from the WTO (along with just about every other trans global institution he's working his way through)

-10 points · 6 months ago(0 children)

It’s ill advised to stand up to a bully when they are much lager and stronger. Especially when he’s only got 2 years left in office.

It’s ill advised to stand up to a bully when they are much lager and stronger.

No, that is exactly when you stand up to a bully. You dont stand up to a bully who cant hurt you because by definition they cant hurt you. If say a three year old threw a snowball at you would you go march up to that "bully" and show them how you wont be a victim?

Look at Mexico. They are getting everything they want. Because they were willing to not back down.

Especially when he’s only got 2 years left in office.

I am sure an unemployed canadian lumber dude can take comfort in that.

A trade war will hurt much more than our lumber industry. There is a lot to loose - and if we win in court (and history is on our side here) then we won’t loose out on anything.

except when POTUS withdraws from NAFTA which he can with no explanation or justification at any time.

Well that will screw both of us over.

If memory serves, the lumber dispute is partly in retaliation for tariffs on US steel.

The EU had a similar idea. When Trump threatened with a steel tariff, the EU told the US that they could expect countermeasures within days.
These countermeasures would include a tariff on bourbon. This was a direct threat to Kentucky, to McConnell, and a clear signal that the EU will react fast and will target the States responsible for the trade row.

Trump is just a puppet for corporations that control the entire fucking world.

The common man has no power unless they band together against the tightening grip of corporations.

which is why he got the lion share of the funding during the election. Oh wait, he didnt.

No. Just pro bono work from the Mercers and whatever Oligarchs were instructed to buy Trump property.

Come on down to Dirty Donnies Laundromat!

-20 points · 6 months ago(14 children)
24 points · 6 months ago

Population != economy.

Look at import/export between the US and Canada. We can cause you far more economic disruption than you give our small, polite population credit for. Sorry to burst your bubble American friend, but you need us as much as we need you, especially as you isolate yourself from the rest of the world.

We've burned your White House to the ground once before, and if push comes to shove we'll do it again.

but if you have a lot of villagers, you can have a robust economy.

Shh, you're making us look bad. Just take the high ground and wait for WTO. Points for "Sorry" though.

Standing against Trump is the high ground. Standing against him vehemently is the most Canadian thing to do.

People confuse our politeness with being weak. History tells us a different story. While in day-to-day cases, we are plenty polite and patient to wait for systems to work out, when shit hits the fan and our country and its values are on the line, Canadians have some of most grit and courage of any people on the planet. Just check the scoreboard. We almost never lose.

If the US falls as far down the rabbit hole as Trump/Russia/The GOP seem to want to take it, given that the UK has followed a similar direction, Canada's going to be ready with its game face friend.

1 point · 6 months ago

This is a stupid comment.

Canada's proximity to the US doesn't actually stop it from cutting trade with the US and taking its business elsewhere.

9 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

76% of Canadian exports are to the US (as compared to 18% for US to Canada exports). They have a massive surplus. Cutting trading ties with the US would literally devastate the entire nation of Canada and throw them into a massive depression. There is also the fact major exporters in Canada are actually American companies or supply American companies (like auto parts manufacturers) and other foreign companies that are only there to sell mainly to the US. Those relationships would end real fast.

I am for free trade and I think it's beneficial for both sides. Yet this tough talk by Canadians in here is laughable. A trade war with Canada would hurt the US, but would absolutely devastate Canada. You can't just pick up and trade elsewhere. If you could you would already. Trade is not something as simple as "ok, let's pack up and start selling to China. We didn't want to sell to you before for some random fucked up reason. I guess we don't like more money. Yet now the US doesn't like us so here, take our goods! You'll pay the same, right?"

Finally someone who's rational... everyone in here talking about how much the US needs Canada is fucking delusional.

-7 points · 6 months ago(0 children)

This has been a repeated false claim to help with negotiations. From a goods perspective USA sells more to Canada than buys from it. It’s reverse when it comes to services, where Canada exports more.

Source: https://globalnews.ca/news/3898843/trade-deficit-canada-us-donald-trump/

Canada doesn't have capacity to carry out trade threats.

Not against the whole country, just the regions that are causing this problem.

unfortunately all those states United a few years back

-5 points · 6 months ago(0 children)
-4 points · 6 months ago

agreed, and canada is stupid to only focus exporting to the US.. canadians know nothing but the US.

-8 points · 6 months ago(8 children)
-5 points · 6 months ago(0 children)

"If you guys were smart"

Is a rethorial device, not an argument.

you would not only have something to bargain with but you would also knock the ever-living shit out of the areas that voted for trump. Just about every single piece of american coal that leaves the US leaves via canada and there really is no other way to do it without a massive amount of port restructuring that would take years in what is already a dying industry.

I never thought I would be in a position where I am cheering on Canada over the American Appalachians but here we are.

Your motivation is to punish people that didn't vote how you wanted them to in the election and you've already made clear that everyone who doesn't agree with you isn't smart. That's nothing a good discussion will evolve from. Also, people higher up and with more knowledge about economics and global trade than you or me didn't take that option, I guess for good reason.

Your motivation is to punish people

are you a psychologist?

who doesn't agree with you isn't smart.

citation needed

Also, people higher up and with more knowledge about economics and global trade than you or me didn't take that option

politicians.

citation needed

Your own comment. "if you people were smart you would..." implies smart people would agree and not-smart people disagree. It's a rethorical device. You find it often used in different variations "Everyone who knows what's going on thinks that..." "All sane people agree that..." etc etc.

are you a psychologist?

No, but I can read. "you would not only have something to bargain with but you would also knock the ever-living shit out of the areas that voted for trump."

politicians.

Their advisors.

implies smart people would agree and not-smart people disagree. It's a rethorical device.

you really cant let a random idiom go can you? Is this a psychological problem for you or just some quirk?

No, but I can read.

but can you understand?

Their advisors.

name 4.

you really cant let a random idiom go can you?

You asked for a citation. I provided it.

but can you understand?

I understand your point. It just doesn't make sense economically.

name 4.

Why should I?

Remember people, Canada does not subsidize lumber. That is why Canada keeps winning at the WTO and NAFTA.

Comment deleted6 months ago(1 child)

The US government may just ignore the rulings but American IP owners who are their campaign contributors might be upset by the grant of free use of their IP by the prevailing country.

Doesn't the US have to pay us a bunch of money the owe us?

"You've restored American credibility on the world stage" - Idiot Mike Pence

Deep down Republicans must know that the world hates when they get elected, or they're absolutely deluded

Actually Republicans enjoy Europe and Canadian bitching because their goal is to be as far away culturally from Europe and Canada as possible. When European and Canadian leadership complain about Trump it strengths his credibility because if your cultural opponent is angry, you're doing something right.

I don't think anyone understands that Republicans really couldn't care less about.

5 points · 6 months ago

so... maybe you could clear some thing up for me. what exactly do the republicans stand for? i mean other then "fuck the other guy, no homo" (which they seem to excel at). like what is the general ideology that most republicans (sans trump) rally behind?

America first and foremost is universal. Anything beyond that is generalizing Northeastern Republicans, Midwest Republicans, and Appalachia types who all believe slightly different things.

-11 points · 6 months ago(1 child)

I never said the world did have that right, idiot

Comment deleted6 months ago(4 children)

The system that got Trump elected will still be there so I wouldn't hold out hope.

[deleted]
5 points · 6 months ago

Yeah, but someone will challenge him in the primary on the grounds of broken promises (the Wall, Repeal and Replace, etc). It'll probably be ugly, and it's very possible Trump loses.

Oh yeah, I don't doubt that. I'm just saying it's very possible another person just as "competent" as Trump will replace him.

That’s optimistic.

can someone explain to me why Canada can't just tax the shit out of the oil the US is stealing from them in response?

14 points · 6 months ago

Oil is almost totally fungible and it has a market price. Therefore any tax they levy would be paid almost totally by their own production companies. American oil companies aren't going to pay some ridiculous premium for Canadian oil when they can just buy it from some other country.

-3 points · 6 months ago

You forget that America has one of the biggest oil supplies in the world lmao. We ha EA our own oil field too so of Canada tries to pull shit, it doesn't matter much because we can go elsewhere or make our own stuff.

[deleted]
4 points · 6 months ago

Because they aren't stealing oil from us. And ideally we just want a good trading partner, not a trade war.

until Canada has the balls to build a pipeline across the Rockies and start exporting or refining oil sand crude out of ports north of Vancouver instead of shipping it down pipelines like Keystone 1 and XL to the US gulf coast they don't have such clout.

Never gonna happen. Did you ever slsee the purposes with like 10 missing islands? There is the deciet to get it built. And then there is the theft to get it built. We would have to steal more land from a tribe in BC. Only this tribe has a treaty and also the ruling of the supreme Court of Canada that their lands are unceded.

Perhaps you don't understand the oil situation? Not trying to sound like a dick, but our dollar isin't par. We are restricted by pipeline capacity which hurts prices when shipping south to refineries (Western Canadian Select), which is known as a basis. But that is also why we don't hike interest rates as fast as Americans, in that every nominal barrel of oil sold is in American dollars. But the costs to produce it are in Cad. CAD/USD is 80 cents.

LMAO at these comments.

-18 points · 6 months ago(0 children)
-5 points · 6 months ago(1 child)
12 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

The WTO trade dispute settlement doesn't need teeth itself, it works by awarding successful claims the right to retaliatory tariffs. When Canada and Mexico complaint at the WTO that a US country-of origin regulation was unfair to them and the WTO ruled in their favor they were awarded the right to impose $781 million and $228 million, respectively, in retaliatory tariffs against U.S. imports. The US withdrew the legislation in question in 2015 so it clearly worked in that case.

-6 points · 6 months ago(0 children)
-57 points · 6 months ago(19 children)

You realize every NATO country has NATO obligations that are required to be met to stay as a member right? It's also foolish to think that every country is going too spend as much on defense as the US. No shit you guys spend more, you also have a way larger budget to dump into the military. How much you spend on your military is your governments choice. Canadians don't care about getting militarily involved in other countries unless we're asked so we don't spend the majority of our budget on it.

1 point · 6 months ago

Canada doesn't meet their obligations in NATO.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

Spooky Russians 👻

settle down. no need to torture us with euphemisms. Try not to occupy these crazy notions. Please try to incarcerate these feelings. Let's not build walls. Have an Orange.

[deleted]
2 points · 6 months ago

Sorry? We don't set your defense budget.

Maybe better called a "War Budget". Defense does not quite sound right.

1 point · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

The US is criticized world-wide for its unnecessary "defense" budget. The industry built around this defense budget has become a corner stone in the US economy, which is retarded, but besides that it leads to justification being required for the budget. Justification for, or blind faith from, the American people must be found, less risk serious economic consequence. Unfortunately, by meddling in foreign issues and politics, this has earned the US many enemies, which furthers this cycle and which also places crosshairs on US allies, like Canada. After 9/11, many expected an attack would occur in Canada because of the close relationship with the US.
So while you think Candians benefit from the US military, which is true to an extent, they also suffer the backlash of ignorant and corrupt American leadership in many, many ways. Also, the superiority complex somehow ingrained into many people within US society is really obnoxious to the other 7.1/7.5 billion (rough rounding off thr top of my head) people on the planet.

Mic drop.

Picks mic up... "Participation Trophy" drops mic again

Your autism is palpable

[deleted]
7 points · 6 months ago

:( I have Autism. Your probably just talking to someone who doesn't have a good grasp of economics.

1 more reply

Sir Asshat. I present you a question. Who is the only group of special forces that special forces command doesn't balk at having to work with... JT? JTF2.

Who for some ungodly reason has some of the troops with the longest kills? 3 of 5?

And lastly why are your boys not all marksmen? When ours are? DO more with less, that's the Canadian way. Fuck we have 4 fancy subs that we call boats.

So you may have participation ribbons in other peoples' wars? [please forgive trolling]

5 more replies

1 more reply

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