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Posted byRick Falkvinge - Swedish Pirate Party Founder7 months agoGilded1
Archived

Block Explorer announces retirement of support for the Blockstream fork of bitcoin, declaring it an "evolutionary dead end"; supports Bitcoin Cash going forward, and will refer to Bitcoin Cash as just "Bitcoin" at some point TBD (once-only message display)

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level 1
Rick Falkvinge - Swedish Pirate Party FounderOriginal Poster71 points · 7 months ago

Clarification: Block Explorer is not retiring support for Bitcoin Legacy right now but is announcing in the message that it is considered deprecated legacy technology as of today, and that support will be "deprecated entirely" at some future point in time. Hence, announces.

level 2

This is good news for Bitcoin (the real one).

I hope this is one of many similar announcements from other companies.

level 3

THIS IS REALLY GOOD NEWS.

Spreading the truth is more powerful than any change in Block Explorer support for BTC.

level 4
Redditor for less than 6 months5 points · 7 months ago

Great, but hopefully this is implemented in a positive way that is not confusing.

level 1
[deleted]
25 points · 7 months agoGilded1

REKTIFIED

level 2

50 bits u/tippr

level 3

u/barzinka, you've received 0.00005 BCH ($0.1345420 USD)!


^^How to use | ^^What is Bitcoin Cash? | ^^Who accepts it? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

level 3
[deleted]
1 point · 7 months ago

Thanks!

level 2
level 3

u/barzinka, your post was gilded in exchange for 0.00101418 BCH ($2.50 USD)! Congratulations!


^^How to use | ^^What is Bitcoin Cash? | ^^Who accepts it? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

level 3
[deleted]
1 point · 7 months ago

Thanks! I'll pass it on :)

level 1
[deleted]
22 points · 7 months ago

This is the kind of ballsy action the crypto community needs.

level 2

I missed this bitcoin.

level 1

Here is the message:

In August 2017, Bitcoin forked into two variants. These have taken radically different paths.

Looking at the situation one quarter later, it is clear to us that the Blockstream fork of bitcoin diverges so radically from the ideas presented in the Bitcoin white paper, that it is an evolutionary dead end. While it may still have high trading value, as a mere collectible of curiosity, the Blockstream fork of bitcoin is not part of building any future financial infrastructure, which is what Block Explorer is about.

A currency of the future has subcent optional usage fees and instant transactions. The Blockstream fork of Bitcoin ("Bitcoin Legacy") is at $20 usage fees and rising, with no end in sight, and can take days to confirm, despite unfulfilled promises to the contrary on both points when Segwit activated in what can only be described as a community fistfight. We are therefore making the decision to consider the Blockstream fork deprecated, and support it as legacy technology only.

Rather, we have made the decision to support the only bitcoin fork with a postive utility momentum, which is Bitcoin Cash. We took an early decision to deploy a Bitcoin Cash block explorer and will continue to roll out related services. We are also deploying tools for other cryptocurrencies we find on a positive momentum path, such as ZCash, which have increased privacy value.

We will not add future support for the Blockstream fork of bitcoin ("Bitcoin Legacy"), and will be deprecating it entirely at some future point in time to be determined. Developments have revealed it to be a dead end. At such a time, we will refer to Bitcoin Cash as Bitcoin only, but will make some effort to not break API calls by changing URLs of legacy automated systems.

/u/tippr gild

level 2

Blockstream fork of bitcoin

Tellin' it like it is. A+

level 2

u/Falkvinge, your post was gilded in exchange for 0.0010433 BCH ($2.50 USD)! Congratulations!


^^How to use | ^^What is Bitcoin Cash? | ^^Who accepts it? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

level 2

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level 1

If they retire BItcoin support how are we going to make fun of the fees paid for transactions?

level 2
[deleted]
1 point · 7 months ago

There will be no fees paid.

level 1

Boom! Wow that’s an awesome message they posted. Roasted!!!

level 1

Huge sea change just started

level 1

If I understand this correctly, I need to buy some Bitcoin Cash. Would someone be so good as to suggest a reliable wallet? I would like a second opinion before I commit to one.

level 2

Coinomi or Bitcoin.com

I use both and they both work fine.

level 3

Thank you for the assistance. :)

level 4
Comment deleted7 months ago
level 5

I don't have an iPhone, so I think I'll just go with the bitcoin.com one. Thank you for the extra opinions, it sincerely helps. :)

level 2

Shapeshift + Jaxx or coinomi.

level 1

.5 usd u/chaintip

level 1

It actually is a fork, because Core forked out many things that we had used for payments, designed for the payments development path.

It's not merely that Core failed to raise the blocksize, they ALSO forked out zero-config and forked in RBF, they forked out multiple op-codes and replaced them with nothing, and by refusing to fork they have allowed the fees to balloon out of control, in a way that bitcoin was never intended to be expensive to transact with. Satoshi applied the 1mb limit early on, it was NEVER meant to be a hard-limit never to be changed, and he expected the blocksize to be raised continually. To refuse to fork is to betray his intent and purpose in creating that limit in the first place.

level 1

Wow.

level 1
2 points · 7 months ago

This made my month.

level 1

That is one bold message. Incredibly incissive, love it

level 1

Calling Bitcoin Cash just Bitcoin only serves to create confusion. If you really don't want Core to have the Bitcoin moniker, just use Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Legacy, or something like that. But using just "Bitcoin" when everybody else in the world understands that to mean the Legacy chain, will only create confusion. I know BCH wants to appropriate the Bitcoin name, but you just can't force social movements. Call Core the legacy chain if you want, but don't needlessly create confusion.

level 2

The worst thing that could happen is that uneducated people using Block Explorer (really?) confuse the real Bitcoin for the real Bitcoin...

This comment reeks of concern trolling.

level 3

agree

level 3
-5 points · 7 months ago(1 child)
level 4

creating a user-friendly ecosystem free of confusion.

You really have no clue do you? What do you think we are doing here?

level 2

To clear up the confusion, BCH should be called Bitcoin and BTC should be called BSettle to better reflect the other chain’s new stated purpose.

level 2

Ya, the time to have done this was immediately post fork. Its too late now.

level 2

Because something takes a little more work we should take the wrong path? No. You do the right thing. If new folks have to do a little more reading, so be it.

level 3

Demanding that you get to name your coin Bitcoin is not "the right thing". It's a name. Nobody gives a shit. The fact that you'd willingly confuse new users rather than use the words "cash" and "legacy" says more about your priorities and how much you care about users than it does about the moral high ground of who should use the name.

level 4

You're talking about the r/bitcoin community, right? They're the ones who constantly complain that we're squatting on the r/btc sub and the Bitcoin name with Bitcoin Cash.

I think that most here are willing to live and let live. You can't find hardly anyone in the r/bitcoin community who supports live and let live. It is a constant barrage of "BCash" and "its not really bitcoin" comments. Which are all laughable because it is Bitcoin whereas BTC is now an alt coin. It is NOT the Bitcoin of the white paper.

It is a fact. BTC =/= Bitcoin. It is now an altcoin.

If that bothers people, sorry about that. But I'm not going to pretend that it is something different.

And I'm not demanding that I get a name. BCH IS Bitcoin. In time, as more and more people flip, it will be recognized as Bitcoin as ETH is a fork but is now recognized as the Real McCoy. No one is demanding anything, the market will (and is already) sorting it out on their own.

level 5

You're absolutely right that BCH is Bitcoin.

But so is the Legacy chain.

The fact that you personally have some view of what Bitcoin is and is not, and what chain should and should not call themselves "Bitcoin" is entirely your own problem.

The Bitcoin of the white paper says nothing about block size, or about extension protocols. Your views on those topics is not some official cannon that everybody else must recognize. Both BCH and BTC have just as much right to call themselves Bitcoin as any other coin does. (Or rather, as much right as any other PoW coin does....)

No one is demanding anything

It sure sounded like it when somebody said that calling the legacy chain Bitcoin was "the wrong path" and that "the right thing" was calling BCH Bitcoin, and we should do that even at the expense of users.

When somebody says "fuck the users, we're doing things this way", most people consider that pretty darned close to a demand.

level 6
3 points · 7 months ago · edited 7 months ago

The fact that you personally have some view of what Bitcoin is and is not, and what chain should and should not call themselves "Bitcoin" is entirely your own problem.

The fact that Satoshi Nakamoto has some view of what Bitcoin is and is not, and what chain should and should not call themselves "Bitcoin" is entirely his own problem.

fixed that for you

He wrote the white paper. BTC is not what is described as Bitcoin. BCH is.

that's all there is to it

When somebody says "fuck the users, we're doing things this way",

straw man argument

No one is saying F the users. You could make a valid case that by selling people BTC when they want to buy what Bitcoin was 3 years ago is misleading new investors. Actually, that is happening on a huge scale and it happens every day.

The Bitcoin of the white paper says nothing about block size,

Straight blockstream propaganda. Blockstream/core tell us that if you raise the block size today, Bitcoin is somehow doomed tomorrow because it can't compete on Visa level transactions today.

"Long before the network gets anywhere near as large as that, it would be safe for users to use Simplified Payment Verification (section 8) to check for double spending, which only requires having the chain of block headers, or about 12KB per day. Only people trying to create new coins would need to run network nodes. At first, most users would run network nodes, but as the network grows beyond a certain point, it would be left more and more to specialists with server farms of specialized hardware. A server farm would only need to have one node on the network and the rest of the LAN connects with that one node.

"The bandwidth might not be as prohibitive as you think. A typical transaction would be about 400 bytes (ECC is nicely compact). Each transaction has to be broadcast twice, so lets say 1KB per transaction. Visa processed 37 billion transactions in FY2008, or an average of 100 million transactions per day.
That many transactions would take 100GB of bandwidth, or the size of 12 DVD or 2 HD quality movies, or about $18 worth of bandwidth at current prices.

"If the network were to get that big, it would take several years, and by then, sending 2 HD movies over the Internet would probably not seem like a big deal."

Satoshi Nakamoto https://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09964.html

level 7

The fact that Satoshi Nakamoto has some view of what Bitcoin is and is not

Satoshi invented the original Bitcoin, which no longer exists. He open sourced his code, and now many projects implement the Bitcoin idea and protocol as described in the white paper. Some of them incorporate the name Bitcoin, some do not.

He wrote the white paper. BTC is not what is described as Bitcoin. BCH is.

That is factually incorrect.

straw man argument

That is not correct either. You explicitly said that you found it acceptable to cause inconvenience and hassle to new users for the sake of the name. Pointing out that you said that and then explaining why that's a bad thing is not remotely a straw man argument.

Straight blockstream propaganda. Blockstream/core tell us that if you raise the block size today, Bitcoin is somehow doomed tomorrow because it can't compete on Visa level transactions today.

The white paper does not mention a block size. That is a fact. If you're going to use the white paper to defend your idea of what Bitcoin is, then I'm perfectly free to use it to counter your claims.

Just because something doesn't align with your views does not make it propaganda. I never said that I agreed with keeping the blocksize small. All I claimed is that a larger blocksize is not de facto "more Bitcoin" than a smaller block size.

[Lots of Satoshi quotes about bandwidth and nodes]

There's a few points to bring up. The first and most obvious one is that Satoshi's speculations about the future aren't technical specs and weren't implemented. The white paper and the source code provide the defition of Bitcoin, and not even Satoshi himself gets to redefine what Bitcoin is. If Satoshi came out of hiding tomorrow and said Bitcoin should be more centralized and like Paypal and there should only be 2 nodes, run by governments, guess what... nobody would do that or call his vision Bitcoin. Because it's no longer his to define. Like art or any other work, once it's released, it's out of the author's control and hands. "Bitcoin" is whatever the community defines it as. Nobody, not even Satoshi, and not even you, gets to declare that their vision is the correct vision and Bitcoin is only what they say it is.

Second point: There are valid security concerns relating to blocksize -- all the standard things Core says may be tired and annoying to hear, but they are valid arguments. It is also valid to claim that the blocksize is part of the scarcity of Bitcoin. Just because your or I happen to disagree with all those arguments doesn't in itself negate them. Those visions and views of what Bitcoin is are just as valid as yours. If you're using the white paper as your definition, as you seem to be, then as I pointed out previously (numerous times), there's nothing that says 1mb blocks can't be Bitcoin. They certainly have been for the first 8 years.

I forget what my third point was, but the above two will suffice. The community defines what Bitcoin is, not you and not Satoshi. And even if we go by the white paper, it doesn't mention any of the stuff you posted. George Lucas may get to rewrite his works, but Satoshi does not.

level 8

you've made your points, I've made mine.

Thanks for contributing.

level 7

$0.50 /u/tippr

this guy gets it

level 8

u/Scott_WWS, you've received 0.00020234 BCH ($0.5 USD)!


^^How to use | ^^What is Bitcoin Cash? | ^^Who accepts it? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

level 4

It's a name. Nobody gives a shit.

Sure sound like you do. Same with all of those posters who insist on using the name bcash.

level 5

I care about the users.

level 1
4 points · 7 months ago

Bitcoin Cash? More like Chadcoin Cash - this coin fucks.

level 2

Sure does!

$0.10 u/tippr

level 3

u/Zectro, you've received 0.00004166 BCH ($0.1 USD)!


^^How to use | ^^What is Bitcoin Cash? | ^^Who accepts it? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

level 1

I can't find one mention of this over at r/bitcoin. Am I blind or is the censorship that crazy now?

level 2

You're not blind. and it's not "now", it's been for a long time, now just so far past the point of unmistakable that it's absurd.

level 1

I thought implementing lightning network was good tech utilization?

level 2

yup, right up there with cross breeding leprechauns and unicorns

level 3
2 points · 7 months ago

I'm sorry... but why?

level 4

LN is a fantasy that will never work as advertised.

It is vaporware that was sold to unsuspecting BTC hodlers in order to get them on board with a suicidal policy of not raising the block size limit.

Its like the Titanic is sinking and all the BCH folks are climbing into open lifeboats and blockstream is telling the people, "don't go out into the cold, a bigger ship with nicer amenities is coming at any moment."

and then 18 months later the new ship doesn't come and blockstream says, "Just 18 more months..."

level 1

Anyone calling bitcoin cash “bitcoin” is just trying to sow confusion.

level 2

Confusing the real Bitcoin for the real Bitcoin? How does that work?

level 2

anyone fighting it is just trying to find ANY reason to preserve some BTC value

It will flip in time. It is inevitable.

level 3

But why do you care?

I understand wanting your own investments to do well, but why do you seem so emotionally invested in some financial instrument doing poorly?

Did bitcoin kick your dog or something?

Why the animosity?

level 4

I see, so when a market analyst comes out and says that Tesla has no earnings and the stock is propped on irrational optimism there is animosity?

I have NO animosity towards BTC. I still hold my BTC.

The only animosity I have are towards the mods at r/bitcoin but even more so, their masters who draw pay at the central banks (blockstream et all).

level 5

anyone fighting it is just trying to find ANY reason to preserve some BTC value

level 6

Pragmatism =/= animosity

level 7

animosity != pragmatism

level 1

we will refer to Bitcoin Cash as Bitcoin only.

but why? that's false information.

level 2

How is it false information? Why should 1 fork get the name over the other fork? It's an open source project.

level 3

Proof of work

level 3

it's false information because BitcoinCash(BCH) is not Bitcoin(BTC).

level 4

So because exchanges have forced it to use the BCH/BCC ticker it can't be considered as bitcoin? I don't think that's correct at all.

level 5

forced it to use the BCH/BCC ticker

not sure what you mean forced, this sub spent ages deciding between whether they wanted BCH or BCC. since using BTC would be incorrect as that is Bitcoins Ticker

level 6

No it's not BCH is bitcoins ticker. BTC is bitcoin core ticker.

level 7
0 points · 7 months ago

The Koolaid is strong with this one

level 7

well no, Bitcoin core does not have a ticker, it's a client not a coin

BitcoinCash has the ticker BCH

Bitcoin has the ticker BTC

level 8

Hey, to be honest I don't even care. When Bitcoin dies though, the name will die with it, and nobody will want to use Bitcoin Cash because of the name association. So if Bitcoin Cash doesn't claim this name, then I fear it may be the end of the line for both chains.

level 9

welp, let's hope it doesnt and something happens soon.

level 2

but, its not

Bitcoin Cash IS Bitcoin

level 3

BitcoinCash is BitcoinCash.

level 4

BitcoinCash is BitcoinCash.

Bitcoin Cash is Bitcoin

silly shill, fixed it for you

level 5

i'm not a shill, seems to be a common thing to call anyone who likes BTC here a shill or troll.

level 6

Ok, troll then. If you go to r/bitcoin and say BTC is Corecoin, you'll get flat banned and your post deleted.

Here, we have freedom to speak our minds. Posting leading troll statements makes your a troll or a shill.

Post like that, get called what you are.

Now, had you come along and said, "In my opinion, Bitcoin cash is not Bitcoin and here is why," then we could have an intelligent conversation. That's what reasonable people do.

People who do what you did are shills or trolls.

level 7

People who do what you did are shills or trolls.

by that logic 90% of the users in this sub are shills and trolls.

level 8

Really? Please post the last 10 comments wherein someone from the r/btc community went to r/bitcoin and threw around a lot of Bcore comments.

level 3

Bitcoin Gold is bitcoin

level 4

trolls will troll

level 2
-1 points · 7 months ago

I honestly agree with you here!!

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