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Posted by
Alberta
6 months ago
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Average Temps of Canadian Provincial Capitals in January

442 comments
94% Upvoted
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[deleted]
602 points · 6 months ago

Am I the only one feeling spiteful towards Victoria?

Naww. Why would I hate on the one friggin place in Canada that's warm.

Also somewhat depressing to realize average highs of 4.6 are the warmest we can possibly get in this entire second largest country in the entire world. That would be defined as frigid cold for most of the world.

[deleted]
20 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

It is amusing that if you go just across the water to Seattle, it's considered that dreary cold far flung edge of America. But Victoria and the Lower Mainland are the Canadian riviera.

British Columbia
15 points · 6 months ago

Well, to be fair Victoria has a bit of a microclimate. You can go half way up the island, it'll be frozen... go across the water, it'll be rainy. Victoria is a bubble of mild weather.

I always like to think of Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland as Canada’s version of Southern California.

And the Okanagan can be considered Canada’s southwest.

Ontario
9 points · 6 months ago

Nah. But I'm going to have to disagree with you just the same. The colder and snowier it gets, the better I like it.

Location: Thunder Bay

Saskatchewan
3 points · 6 months ago

Maybe you'd enjoy this. I know I sure don't

https://imgur.com/a/ch1od

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It sounds nice, but I'd rather have snow at -15°C than that miserable rain at 1°C.

We don't get as much rain as people assume, way less than Vancouver.

Shhhhh. Don't let the secret out. It rains, ohhhh the rains. Hasn't stopped since August.

Those are some nice property prices you have there. Would be a shame if everyone were to... move to your island.

2 points · 6 months ago

I hope they do. I'll sell and retire in Palm Springs.

Hey now, you're not supposed to acknowledge that rising property values benefit current resident, this is r/canada

^ this. 6 months per year everything is wet from rain. Why would anyone want that in their lives.

Sounds like a vacation spot for Brits tbh.

8 points · 6 months ago

Better than rain 3/4 of years go UK!

British Columbia
18 points · 6 months ago

Vancouver actually gets more annual rainfall than just about anywhere in the UK, even most parts of Scotland or Wales.

It's also much more concentrated, there will be weeks of pretty solid rain but then summers are usually pretty dry.

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Not just vacation, many Brits live in Victoria. Enough that I usually notice the accent later on. Kind of interesting.

11 points · 6 months ago

I usually notice the accent later on.

"Honey, did you notice that Bill seems to have an accent?"

"Uh, you mean Bill as in the guy who has been living with us for the past year? Of course he has an accent, he's British."

"Another one!"

Basically that how it goes down!

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Rain is easy. I don't understand the people who can't deal with it. Wear waterproof clothing and carry an umbrella. It's hardly an ordeal. I'd take it over being snowed in and frozen half to death for half the year.

So dark..... so cold......send umbrellas...

Comment deleted6 months ago(1 child)

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because for the other 6 months the weather is pristine. in life you you get the sweets with the sours. it all balances out. weed helps though.

Lush rainforest, mountains, ocean, and almost never below freezing. Awful, just awful.

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3 points · 6 months ago

Hasn't felt like that over the past few days. Fuck you, it's January!

3 points · 6 months ago

West side of the island would get rain as the weather moves in from the ocean, bringing in humid air and cooling as it rises over the mountains, then as the weather crosses the top of the mountain and rolls down towards the east side of the island it warms up and takes water in rather than dropping it. Then it crosses the channel and hits Vancouver and drops it all there up to hope before it goes over the mountains again and then picks water up as it crosses the interior.

It's called the rainshadow effect and is why Victoria and the interior are so dry compared to Vancouver.

And the gulf islands get half of that!

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I live in Newfoundland and we get lots of rain in winter and it definitely sucks. I think I'd prefer Victoria though which is a nice bit warmer and a fraction of the snow.

15 points · 6 months ago

Fraction of the snow? This is all we've got so far in the actual City of Victoria and it lasted ~5 hours.

https://i.imgur.com/PaOIByG.jpg

instead of inches we measure snow in hours.

What? Victoria gets a fraction of the snow that St.John's gets. 30cm vs 330

5 points · 6 months ago

It was a joke, like we don't get any normally.

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2 points · 6 months ago

Kind of poetic too that it was on Christmas morning. We all woke up to a beautiful pristine white christmas. And got to skip the shoveling and the slush. The sun took care of it by 2 pm.

Ontario
3 points · 6 months ago

I've only been out to NFLD once but I LOVED it - but had issue with my jacket I needed in late June.

Oh? Did you forget your winter jacket? lol

Ontario
3 points · 6 months ago

I had finished a gig in Pei and before heading home I thought I'd head out there to visit old friends I never see, so I hadn't brought it with me, no. CHILLY! I saw a whale so it paid off.

Yeah, summer doesn't really start in Newfoundland usually til pretty close to July. Those cold offshore winds are brutal.

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Ontario
11 points · 6 months ago

I am the exact opposite.

6 points · 6 months ago

Nah man, I like summer rain, I like spring rain, I especially like autumn rain, but winter rain? Ew.

Maybe, but I'll take fall, spring, and summer heating bills instead

British Columbia
12 points · 6 months ago

Lived in multiple Van Island towns. The rain is hardly miserable. I'm always at a comfortable temperature in a light jacket. I don't have to leave early for work every day to shovel driveway, scrape my car or heat up the engine. I don't even have to buy snow tires. I can BBQ all year round, even in the rain! It's awesome.

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Yes, please keep telling everyone it’s awful. I want to be able to afford to live there soon. 😂😂

British Columbia
7 points · 6 months ago

Due to the rain shadow effect of the nearby Olympic Mountains, Victoria is the driest location on the British Columbia coast and one of the driest in the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria,_British_Columbia#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_shadow

The rain is pretty damn miserable. I want some of our nice, no lower than -10 snowfall. It snowed on Christmas, which is pretty rare nowadays, but sadly I was out of town. At least I haven't had to worry about wearing gloves at all this year?

Canada
3 points · 6 months ago

I hate slush and ice more than fresh non-compact snow. Fresh snow is the best. No instant wet like rain and easy enough to shovel.

I <3 the rain

The worst is when you get ice rain. God damn it's frustrating. Had to tackle my door open the other day because I had 3 inches(probably not that much) of frozen rain on it

I'm originally from the UK and I'd take rain everyday over the weather I'm living with now for 5 months in Montreal.

Victoria gets less rain than Toronto or Ottawa. 705 mm per year. Compare that to Abbotsford at 1538 mm. It's actually closer to Edmonton at 456 mm. Source: I have lived in Edmonton and Victoria. Also, data: https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Canada/Cities/precipitation-annual-average.php

Canadians who haven't been to the island seem to assume Vancouver Island = Vancouver.

New Brunswick
6 points · 6 months ago

My neighbour moved from Vancouver to Edmonton to - guess what - get away from the rain.

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When it rains here in Van, its usually about 6 or 7 degrees, so not bad.

More like 5-9C (in Vancouver at least). I'll take that over snow and cold any day. When I get sick of the rain I just drive 30 mins and go skiing... not my idea of miserable.

Victoria is second only to Cranbrook as the sunniest city in Canada.

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I won't lie. It feels like the entire winter was like a week long down here, and after 4 years in alberta I ain't complaining haha.

British Columbia
6 points · 6 months ago

It feels like Spring is just around the corner.

I was actually just thinking that this afternoon.

British Columbia
4 points · 6 months ago

Mmmm was +7 here today, didn't even need a sweater!

14 points · 6 months ago

I had the top down on my Miata 3 times this week.

Ontario
15 points · 6 months ago

Yeah, but you also had to drive a Miata.

British Columbia
13 points · 6 months ago

Yeah, but he also GOT to drive a Miata! They're really fun little cars!

3 points · 6 months ago

Exactly! Thank you and well put! My other vehicle is a '91 Chevy 3/4 ton for when I need to do truck stuff, and while in fantastic shape, is akin to driving a slug around town. My Miata just zips through traffic and parks like a motherfucker!!!

British Columbia
2 points · 6 months ago

Yes! I love my '93 Explorer Sport, it's like driving my sofa on the highway, but it's greedier than Donald Trump at the pump. So my Jetta Sport is the daily driver: it's nimble, great on gas, and super fun on windy twisty roads.

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Russian Empire
17 points · 6 months ago

Am I the only one feeling spiteful towards Victoria?

Yes, here in Vancouver we have no spite towards them.

British Columbia
14 points · 6 months ago

Sometimes when it's extra rainy in Vancouver while more mild in Victoria, there's a slight bit of spite. Lived there for a few years, and there's a definite difference!

North Vancouver: 99.3in of rain in 178 days

Vancouver: 57.3in of rain in 168 days

Victoria: 27.8in of rain in 148 days

source

British Columbia
12 points · 6 months ago

Haha yup, and now I’m in north van. It’s wet. Always.

[deleted]
3 points · 6 months ago

That North Van number in that source is misleading because down by the waterfront the number is significantly lower.

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British Columbia
5 points · 6 months ago

Eh you live here you basically adapt or go mad. Wear wool, buy good boots and just get on with it haha.

as a victorian i feel no spite

British Columbia
4 points · 6 months ago

As a Victorian I feel an unreasonable level of "Haha Suck It!" to the rest of the country.

And yet, half our office is leaving for a paid work vacation to Mexico tomorrow. Because I'm not on the sales team or higher management, I'm ineligible to go. I'm a bit bitter.

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Alberta
14 points · 6 months ago

Nope. My first thought was " Fuck you, Victoria, "

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I moved there from the East Coast 12 years ago and let me have the honor to say " haaaaahahahahaha!"

2 points · 6 months ago

Ohhhh, being out here in the + I'm am laughing my face off seeing this.. if it helps, it's rained pretty much all week. So you know, trade offs. My friends from burns lake (-30c) found Vancouver to be colder in perception (feels like) just because of all the moisture.

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Manitoba
166 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

Wait, wait, wait ... Winnipeg's colder than Yellowknife Whitehorse? I mean, I live in Winnipeg, I know it's cold, but I always just assumed the Yukon was colder.

Edit: whoops.

Alberta
Original Poster40 points · 6 months ago

Yeah that surprised me too, also because Whitehorse is a lot milder than I expected. Winnipeg winters are no joke.

Manitoba
18 points · 6 months ago

At least we still get reasonable sunlight hours in winter, and our summers will be a lot warmer than Yukon as well. I do feel like I need the summer to 'charge' me up as it were.

Winnipeg's warmer than Yellowknife, colder than Whitehorse. Whitehorse is much closer to the coast, so will benefit from a more Maritime climate than Winnipeg, smack dab in the middle of the country.

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I know I almost spit out my slurpee when I read that!

You mean Whitehorse?

Yukon
7 points · 6 months ago

the Yukon warmed up a lot this month. I spent Christmas there and there was frost on the inside of the walls, not the windows or anything but just the wall. -43° that night. They get huge fluctuations in temperature though, so it went up to zero the next week

[deleted]
3 points · 6 months ago

Since December 10th we've gone 0C to -35C and back to 0C 3 times. This is fucked.

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They don't call it Winterpeg for nothin'!

It's got a big river flowing through it, it's nestled in the mountains and gets the warm Pacific current. For being so far north it's actually surprisingly great weather.

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Whitehorse actually has a fantastic climate. Winters aren’t as cold as most of the north, we get very little snow, and the summers and warm but not hot. It’s one of my favourite things about living here.

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British Columbia
161 points · 6 months ago

Victoria represent! Ah, it's nice to sit on the balcony having a toke in shirtsleeves in the evening

Hit 9 today :)

Playing golf at cedar tomorrow lol

12 points · 6 months ago

I'm riding my motorcycle!

Ontario
8 points · 6 months ago

It was 9° in Ottawa two days ago.

It was -30° yesterday.

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And that's what leads to higher rent, people encouraging even more people to move here.

24 points · 6 months ago

Ug! Don’t move out here! Soooo much gardening!

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That's cool with me. Get out of Toronto! Too many people!

Newfoundland and Labrador
2 points · 6 months ago

Yeah I'm seeing all these idiots gloating. I thought the rule here was shut the fuck up or at least tell em it's so terrible here so they don't come. At this point I swear we'll have to figure out how to make a fire moat out of the straights

British Columbia
8 points · 6 months ago

It's midnight, and I'm heading to Ali Baba for some pizza

I will be wearing a t-shirt as well 👍

British Columbia
6 points · 6 months ago

Yoo I work at ali baba

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Sitting in fountain Chinese food in Victoria. Going to wear shorts tomorrow.

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Brb buying a boat and moving to Victoria.

British Columbia
83 points · 6 months ago

Bring a second boat, loaded with cash for your down payment.

[deleted]
11 points · 6 months ago

No doubt. I think people forget or don't realize how expensive the west coast is.

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British Columbia
6 points · 6 months ago

Probably cheaper to buy a boat than take the ferry.

Get in before the real estate gets Vancouver expensive.

Comment deleted6 months ago(20 children)
2 points · 6 months ago

Nanaimo. It's not that bad. I should work for the Tourist Office.

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Being born in Victoria but not to exceedingly wealthy parents kind of sucks. Forced to move out of my hometown because...fuck me, Chinese people want to buy several flats.

2 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

That's one of the reasons why I left Vancouver. I loved living in the city, I hated being crushed by both high cost of living and low employment opportunities in my field.

Getting away from the Best Place on Earth cult was also nice.

WORLD CLASS!!!!!

BEST PLACE ON EARTH!!!!!

EVERYONE ONE WANTS TO LIVE HERE!!!!!

Did you hear about the new car-free condos being build in the borough of SoMa? It's only $750k for a 500 sqft studio! You'll be right down the street from Brassneck and a permaculture plot set up in a parking lot so you can get fresh herbs!

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Start small and lower your expectations. It's possible.

[deleted]
9 points · 6 months ago

A townhouse is on the order of $500k. Between my girlfriend and I we make ~$100k gross per year. By the general affordability rule, we can afford around $300k (3x gross income). We can't even get a 2bd condo for that. Plus, prices are going up by over 10% per year, so by the time we'll be in a position to buy, prices will be significantly more expensive.

I am still saving up for a down payment, but I think we'll be leaving the city when we plan to start a family. It's just way too unaffordable.

11 points · 6 months ago

2bd condo for high 300s lol You couldnt get a trash can for that in Van. Building next to my apt is getting torn down and building 2 highrises in its place. I shit you not theyre not even selling it to Canadians. Yes if youre a canadian you cannot buy one here, youll have to fly to HK, negotiate there. Talked to a realestator friend a week ago, he was saying that he keeps seeing numbers around 10-20% foreign owner ship thrown around for new condos he said it makes absolutely no sense where they got those numbers because he hasnt seen 20% Canadians buying a new condo let alone 80%

makes absolutely no sense where they got those numbers because he hasnt seen 20% Canadians buying a new condo let alone 80%

They sell to family who get citizenship and have babies in Van but maintain economic connections to HK/China, so technically it's Canadian citizens, but it is not Canadian citizens.

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Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

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[deleted]
2 points · 6 months ago

Plus, prices are going up by over 10% per year, so by the time we'll be in a position to buy, prices will be significantly more expensive.

This is the real bitch of the situation. Even if you have pretty dual income situation with good savings habits and a solid investment strategy, when house prices go up 10% to 20%/year even the ability to save for a downpayment on an equivalent place becomes a problem. This is especially true if you don't believe in throwing all your networth in to one asset at one address with high leverage (* cough * I'm fuckin' looking at you Vancouver)

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20 points · 6 months ago

West Coast Best Coast.

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50 points · 6 months ago

Hey where’s Ottaw... oh wait provincial.

I still want to see where Ottawa is. Would it be #1 this year?

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Ottawa's average Jan temp is -10.5C, according to https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/forecasts/statistics/ontario/ottawa

Ontario
6 points · 6 months ago

Same. I totally forgot it's not the provincial capital.

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Alberta
32 points · 6 months ago

It would be interesting to see one with the largest cities in each province as well although that would probably only change like 4 of the cities on there

Alberta
Original Poster27 points · 6 months ago

I checked but the ranking wouldn't really change. The only big change would be Alberta because Calgary's January average of -7.1 is much higher than Edmonton's.

Saskatchewan
12 points · 6 months ago

Saskatoon is slightly colder than Regina too, enough to put it above Whitehorse.

Alberta
Original Poster3 points · 6 months ago

I missed that, thanks!

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Alberta
4 points · 6 months ago

Chinooks get us through the winter.

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British Columbia
47 points · 6 months ago

Heheh.

  • from Victoria

British Columbia
13 points · 6 months ago

That was my reaction as well

Outside Canada
3 points · 6 months ago

Southern California is pretty good too. Ya, you get the odd fire or mudslide but I got tired of shoveling snow and not wearing shorts.

Oh, the whole being paid more than twice what you would get in Canada for the same job (plus a benefits package that means you get as good health care and usually better dental and vision converage) while all consumer goods being cheaper, fuel being cheaper, car/home insurance being cheaper, while real estate only being Calgary levels of expensive is pretty nice. Then there's the winters were you might, just might, contemplate wearing a long sleeved shirt in the evenings because it might get down to 12 C at some points, maybe a bit lower if you're more inland.

Oh, and not having to deal with the constantly snobbish attitude of British Columbians. That's really nice. In the couple of years I've lived in SoCal I quite literally have never met a single person as up themselves about their city or California in general as the average British Columbian I knew when I lived in Vancouver and their "The Best Place On Earth" attitude.

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I find NFLD has the worst summers but best winters

Newfoundland and Labrador
10 points · 6 months ago

I find it's almost the opposite - summers are always really comfortable - warm in the day and cool in the evening for a great sleep. Winters can occasionally give you some great snow and outdoorsy weather, but it's often slushy and sloppy.

The have great autumn's, and comfortable summers (but sometimes it rains and it's 10 degrees for a week). Their winters vary between relatively comfortable and "I'm getting my face blasted off by a hurricane force blizzard", which is kind of cool in a way. Their springs are just depressing. Cold, wet, foggy, up to and including June usually.

Cold, wet, foggy? Sounds like a keen day to get a kitchen party on the go

Screech consumption is at its peak that time of year.

You knows it

New Brunswick
7 points · 6 months ago

They seem to routinely get blizzards that leave 10 feet of snow though, I'm not sure if the temps are worth it.

And then rain :(

12 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

I'd say worst winters. I much rather freezing cold and a fraction of the snow than snowing all week and freezing cold then 10 degrees and rain on the weekend, like we so often get here on the island, or those blizzards that change into pouring rain. Ugh.

Yeah I agree. The temperature fluctuations are the worst. We just had snow a few days ago and then today it was in the double digits with rain and it was warm an all the snow melted and now when it drops back down to the negatives it will feel even more cold by comparison. I also think that the winds are very cold here which this probably does not account for the wind chill.

I kinda hate this huge fluctuation in temperature too. Me and my roommate had almost finished an igloo-esque structure but it all melted

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Temperature-wise, yes.

Snow-wise, no.

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Russian Empire
9 points · 6 months ago

Anybody that enjoys winter and the cold here?

7 points · 6 months ago

I like winter, I like the cold until -10, it's okay until -20 without big winds, I like snow (skiing) and I hate snow (shoveling).

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Pretty surprising to see so few people sharing my love for winter, snow, and all the fun outdoor activities that go along with it!

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Ontario
2 points · 6 months ago

I fucking love the cold, snow and ice. A friend and I where out shooting shotguns in the cold last weekend and our conversation turned to the fact that it seems like a lot of Canadians have become pussies with respect to the cold weather.

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10 points · 6 months ago

It was 14° in St. John's today o.o

I'm in Vancouver and I just saw some Canadian geese fly northward last week. Usually they're in the south this time of year so it was really weird seeing them here this time of year.

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15 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

TIL Edmonton is warmer than Quebec city.

Might want to re-read the chart.

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6 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

Lol... greetings from Victoria. I wonder if this has anything to do with the value of my condo going up 28% this year.

Anyway, don't worry about it, Canada. We get enough rain here to make us nice and miserable through the winter just like the rest of you.

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I lived in Winnipeg for 23 years than moved to Victoria. When I start to miss the cold I go into the walk in freezers at work at -18°C. Always ask myself why I lived there

Vancouver island checking in, fuck the rest of Canada in the winter

I'min nanaimo. My cherry trees and lilac trees are all budding. In mid January.

Fuck you, rest of Canada! Hahahah!!

British Columbia
2 points · 6 months ago

How are the palm trees doing up there?

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Canada
72 points · 6 months ago

Wait, Toronto was only -5.5? We had temps of at least -11 since Christmas, except for a couple days last week.

Also, Victoria can eat a shirt.

New Brunswick
90 points · 6 months ago

I think this is the average of Januarys temperatures over a number of years.

British Columbia
18 points · 6 months ago

Climate averages are usually taken over 30 years

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Canada
10 points · 6 months ago

Hmm, the infograph didn't really make that clear.

Considering it is the 13th today, it is hard to get a January Average Temperature for 2018.

[deleted]
5 points · 6 months ago

It does say it at the very top "January Averages". If it's not clear it's not because of the graph...

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Prince Edward Island
39 points · 6 months ago

The data is from 1981-2010

This should have been pointed out by OP. Thanks

I'm a meteorologist. That was a very long cold snap.

Ontario
8 points · 6 months ago

That's why an average chart doesn't really work out, it takes into account dozens of years and as a result no one specific year generally sees the average. It's usually a combination of warm and cold winters, and average is the middle of two, hence no winter generally just sits on the average.

It totally depends on the variance in the data. Some places may have more consistent weather vs places with much more variable weather comparing year to year n

I have my window open all day for fresh air.

2 points · 6 months ago

Yes, we’ll eat all your shirts

Ontario
2 points · 6 months ago

Fellow southern Ontarian here. That was an unusually long, unusually bitterly unbearably cold few weeks, and apparently its normal for most parts of Canada other than the Pacific coast, NL, and here.

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One of these is not like the others

Damm it looks like the sharks were right about Winnipeg

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Told ya so - love Winnipeg

St. John's: "Not as bad as everyone says we are!"

Winnipeg: "Winning at being worse than Yukon."

Us folks over here in Victoria deserve the nice weather. Sooner or later a massive apocalyptic earthquake is going to kill us all, so it kinda evens out.

With global warming, NS and PEI are gonna be under water.... Where's our nice weather? lol

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yeet winnipeg pride

Ahh St. John's, the second warmest, but extremely shitty, winter and I bet the coolest summer of any provincial capital...and probably the Territories.

British Columbia
3 points · 6 months ago

Look up Prince Rupert, BC. It’s 10c right now and it’s 10:45pm. We’re way north of Victoria

Yeah but you're further west too. Tends to allow warmer weather to hit you first prior to a cold front coming through due to southerly advection.

Saskatchewan
4 points · 6 months ago

This is why we should allow Turks and Caicos to be a province. As a westerner if Federalism is gonna fuck us let’s at least have somewhere warm to go.

Huh, why is Yellowknife so much colder than Whitehorse?

It's more inland and doesn't get heat from the Pacific. Go further east into Nunavut at the same latitude and it gets way colder.

I’d like to see that laid out east to west

Id actually rather have it cold and dry here in Vancouver sometimes then just above freezing and raining. That wet cold is gross and no mater how many layers you have on your either cold or damp because the air is saturated with water and you can't cool down.

British Columbia
2 points · 6 months ago

Move to the Interior! Vancouver is in a rainforest and thus it rains.

Friend visiting from AB complained that 2 degrees here is worse/colder than -15 degrees around Calgary. Humidity makes the cold bite.

Ontario
2 points · 6 months ago

Since when is St. John’s one of the warmest places in the country???

One of the warmest winters*

The Avalon Peninsula of Newfoundland (which is where St. John's is located) tends to get very mild winters. We've had double digit temperatures on and off all winter. We nearly hit 20 degrees back in December.

It goes back and forth between cold and snowy, and warm and rainy.

Mind you, the rest of NL experiences a different type of weather altogether.

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Outside Canada
2 points · 6 months ago

As a person who adores Canada but hates cold temperatures, Victoria seems to be nice compromise

Québec
2 points · 6 months ago

We had a blip at plus 10 for half a day. Sure enough were back at -25 this morning. That's a 35 °C swing up and down in barely a day. Batshit crazy weather!

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As a resident of Winnipeg I would long for a January with an average of -16. This chart doesn't include windchill, it's been -40 all of 2 days of 2018

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Nova Scotia
2 points · 6 months ago

Brb moving to Victoria...

The two warmest cities are as far away from each other as is possible in this country

Lucky lucky Victoria....

In Regina we are swinging from extreme cold -30's to mild 0's. Hopefully all the ice on the side walks that not one person other than me apparently spread deicer on melts.

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