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'Double eagle' celebration provokes Serbs

387 comments
76% Upvoted
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Estonia
71 points · 22 days ago

Remember the French outrage when an English player showed a two-finger V salute after scoring a goal!

Am French, don't remember that.

Estonia
68 points · 22 days ago

That's the joke.

I'm sorry can you explain I'm very dumb

Estonia
17 points · 22 days ago

French wouldn't have any outrage about something like that and the Serb outrage is about something much smaller.

Serbia
10 points · 22 days ago

Im sure the Cypriots would have a problem with Aziz Behic putting a North Cypriot flag on his shoes and showing the Crescent when scoring against them.

Original Poster5 points · 22 days ago

Cyprus was illegally ocupied by Turkey.. The situation is completely different.

The only country acknowledging North Cyprus and the illegal occupation is Turkey. Vastly different to Kosovo, where the majority of the world accept Kosovo as independent.

In any case you are right, that Cyprus has not acknowledged Kosovo as independant.. But it is strictly due to not wanting to set a precedent based on the fact that a majority race in a region has 'control' of that region... But the fact remains that North Cyprus was majority Greek.. And the Greeks were forcibly removed from their homes. Kosovo however is 90 percent albanian.. And nobody forced Non-Albanians out to get to that percentage.

Gheg Master Race
21 points · 22 days ago

But I doubt Cypriots get into a game where you hear people chant "Kill all Cypriots" whilst wearing shirts of convicted war criminals and get booed every time they touch the ball.

& Shaqiri has been wearing that flag on his shoes since he was 17 and the Eagle symbol has nothing to do with Kosovo.

-5 points · 22 days ago(31 children)
Gheg Master Race
26 points · 22 days ago · edited 21 days ago

Lol, don't pull that shit, you also chant Kill the Serbs when you get a chance to.

We got our chance when you played in Albania. Did you hear any chants? Any uproar when your anthem was sung? Any sexually frustrated hooligans go on the pitch to hit the players? Just because you have a history of such a disgusting behaviour doesn't mean others do.

And that makes it fine even if true?

Its true and you can google it. He has worn the Swiss and Kosovo flag since his teen years since he considers them his home. You think its fine for him to remove it in this match because the hooligans feelings get hurt? Also what kind of goggles do you use to see some mini flags on a players shoes in the middle of a stadium??

Right, and why was he doing it then?

A good comeback to every single orangutang provoking him everytime he touched the ball and chanting racist verses against him for no other reason than his origins. Unless of course you consider these actions to be less provocative than a hand gesture that literally means Albanian :

https://streamable.com/3x05a

https://i.imgur.com/zDxqC7x.jpg

https://i.redditmedia.com/W11rp9iotYnzQUNwgEwGdmAts1_nTRONWf0EESlqQVs.jpg?w=750&s=7db1400da6bff3b5248325822111af91

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niW10T-OFLg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdhZPJhL3DA

And the cute Chetnik flag was also displayed by the innocent serbian fans in a totally not provocative manner.

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Gheg Master Race
2 points · 20 days ago · edited 20 days ago

I am gonna end your mad mans babbles here so you can also see how the argument started, and you can see to where it devolved as I previously mentioned.

Helskrim, you wanted to know if Shaqs symbol was provoked or not, when you got the proof you wanted you dissmissed the information and tried to turn it into a minor incident.

You complained about the move being too political while the stadium had people in Mladic shirts, Kosovo Je Serbia Shirts and primordial screams of Ubi Siptari whenever the Albanians touched the ball.

Yet you have turned the "debate" into pure politics and dick sizing competition from the National GDP, to Drones, to Radicalism, to the History and Culture of another nation, only because of a hand sign which you somehow interpreted as a sign for Greater Albania. THIS is why I called you an idiot because you contradict your own words and create double standards or as we call it, Justice for me not for thee

Yet you knew you were in the wrong which is why the "debate" became less and less about shaq and more and more about your Serbian Media filtered view on Albanians and Albania. You even had the audacity to link me to r/serbia as if it were controlled and brigaded by us, only for me to find you pathetically calling us barbaric and tribal; A thread by a fake swiss account with everyone insulting Shaq and pretty much sharing the same idea; A thread by a real foreigner who got downvoted to hell because he didn't share your view and a thread about 2 more idiots being one who calls us Siptar on live TV and another who compares the loss to the Hague Tribunal....Oh and your poor excuse of a comment where you were looking for backup on the apparently albanian briggaded r/serbia.

As of 2018 I have yet to see anyone or anything triggered by Djokovic' three finger salute everytime he won or when he got the prize. Why? Because he is free to do whatever he wants, and nobody cares about a salute, as we can see here and in other places, not all people are equal.

But, I am not like you or the other orangutangs like you, I do not condone hooligans of any kind or stature, which is why I separated Serbian Hooligans from Serbia, something which you yourself are incapable of. You can keep on bambling on your fools errand to prove to me that a hand salute is worse than what the world reknown hooligans did not just in the stadium but also in Vienna, I know that even in your own sub people agree with me, so this is just you and the rest of the "patriotic" coallition. Everyone else who has decency and self pride would find only disgust to be associated with those animals, like these fellas have shown:

http://goedhartvoordieren.nl/?page=r/serbia/comments/8td39v/fifa_pokrenula_postupak_protiv_d%C5%BEake_i_%C5%A1a%C4%87irija/e16o7pr/

http://goedhartvoordieren.nl/?page=r/soccer/comments/8t9deh/serbian_supporters_praising_ratko_mladic_mass/e15ye76/

You Helskrim are one of the "Patriots" of the internet as we call them. Incapable of free independent thought and spewing whats on the state news of Belgrade, and if i am lucky, you will ironically also be a diaspora, prefferably in Germany-England which would be the cherry on top. Not to mention the fact that everytime you got caught doing or saying controversial things proving your bias and double standards you called : Stalker!

So to end it with an insult to what can only be literal human garbage for doing everything he can to damage control what can only be monkey behavior by hooligans that any rational person would be ashamed of, you try to look like this : https://i.pinimg.com/736x/48/2c/27/482c27d0f8364a1cb5077f8e7c040f22.jpg

Whilst having the wit of this:

http://www.mediasmarties.nl/media/uploads/producties/s/shr/Shrek.jpg

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Serbia
19 points · 22 days ago

Remember when Milorad Cavic was disqualified in the Olympics when he revealed a Kosovo is Serbia shirt?

I 'member.

Albania
17 points · 22 days ago

Albanian eagle and Kosovo is Serbia are not even remotely equivalent

One is a charged political statement delusional of reality and the other is literally just an Albanian symbol

Serbia
4 points · 22 days ago

Albanian eagle and Kosovo is Serbia are not even remotely equivalent

They are, since Albania did not play in the match, had we been playing Albania, i'd say fuck it, but we were playing Switzerland.

Few Albanians were playing tho

United Kingdom
1 point · 21 days ago

Then they are a bit lost.

You've missed the point of what we're talking about completely

Kosovo
20 points · 22 days ago

One is a political statement, the other is celebrating the Albanian flag. Victim complex.

Still waiting for you to apologize in the Liberia fake news thread.

An Albanian talking about victim complex ?

GOLD!

not just albanian flag, also the "kosovo flag"

Deutschland
1 point · 21 days ago

technically also Montenegrin

Serbia
3 points · 22 days ago

It's not fake news, their MFA is still in Serbia (or was yesterday) probably will clear it up when he gets home.

One is a political statement, the other is celebrating the Albanian flag.

Celebrating the Albanian flag in a Switzerland - Serbia football match.

Victim complex.

Yes, i've been posting articles about Serbia the whole day, and comments alongside Yess !1 they also commited genocide on Kosova lol.

The two of them have been abused all week and during the match for being Albanian. You get what you give.

United Kingdom
1 point · 21 days ago

A Swiss Albanian making Kosovo statements. Ahh and people say refugees and immigration doesn't break up countries.

Dalmatian in Berlin
8 points · 22 days ago

Its not an equivalent situation. Imagine Estonia playing against France and then a (fictional) french player of Russian origin starts provoking with some Russian nationalistic symbols? The gesture surely is nationalistic, also often associated with the concept of great Albania which claims a nice chunk of Serbia (not Kosovo, a good part of the real Serbia, one without Kosovo), Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece.

Estonia
8 points · 22 days ago

Wouldn't care. Wouldn't find some two headed eagle hand-sign provoking at all. Wouldn't log into reddit and feel outrage on behalf of the French.

Serbia
1 point · 22 days ago

bullshit you wouldnt

Dalmatian in Berlin
2 points · 22 days ago

Not with an USSR flag? Because that would be a better equivalent.

Kosovo
8 points · 22 days ago

It’s literally a representation of the double-headed eagle in the Albanian flag. This great albania bullshit is mental gymnastics.

Serbia
16 points · 22 days ago

And where is Albania in this match?

Right they got kicked out in the qualifications, so why the need for an Albanian flag?

The dude isn't even Albanian.

Kosovo
19 points · 22 days ago

According to you he’s not Albanian - according to your pals he’s not Swiss - the dude can’t catch a break lmao.

Serbia
7 points · 22 days ago

He's not an Albanian from Albania, he's an Albanian from Serbia, Kosovo specifically.
So he has no reason to show an Albanian eagle because a) he's not Albanian b) He's playing for the Swiss national team.

Kosovo
23 points · 22 days ago

He’s an Albanian from the Republic of Kosovo. Here’s potential reasons why he can do the Albanian eagle celebration:

a) he wants to.

Serbia
5 points · 22 days ago

So wait, he's showing Albanian symbols but he's from Kosovo and plays for Switzerland?

Kosovo
14 points · 22 days ago

Is this meant to be a rhetorical question?

Serbia
7 points · 22 days ago

It’s literally a representation of the double-headed eagle in the Albanian flag.

He's from Kosovo and plays for the national team of Switzerland, what does the Albanian double headed eagle have to do with either of those?

Kosovo
63 points · 22 days ago
Romania
12 points · 22 days ago

Who's face is on their hoodies?

-13 points · 22 days ago(2 children)
Burgundy (France)
11 points · 22 days ago

Yeah dude, nothing cracks me up more than giving the order to murder thousands of innocent people

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99 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

They were taunted by Serb media, taunted and booed by Serb fans in the stadium. Here's something from Serbian TV where they call them Siptars when talking about the match (derogatory term Serbs use for Albanians) https://streamable.com/3x05a Would be better if they hadn't done it IMO but I can't blame them. They were being provoked, so seeing Serbs mad about this "provocation" is funny.

Estonia
16 points · 22 days ago

What exactly is the significance of this gesture and why are people upset?

It's meant to look like a double-headed Eagle, as in the Albanian flag. So when they scored (The players that scored are Albanian ethnicity) and did that symbol it annoyed Serbs as they were doing it because they were against Serbia.

Estonia
26 points · 22 days ago

Why did it annoy Serbs?

Because of history between Albanians and Serbs. Shaqiri and Xhaka specifically are from Kosovo, and I think they were affected by the war there in some capacity. I know Xhaka's father was a political prisoner for a few years.

Estonia
40 points · 22 days ago

Right now I understand that the symbol just meant Albania, so it wasn't like Sieg Heil or anything. Why get upset about that?

I mean there's a lot of history there but put it simply, Serbs and Albanians are not so fond of each other, so when two players of Albanian ethnicity flaunt it in front of them after scoring, Serbs got annoyed.

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South Tyrol
28 points · 22 days ago

because the Serbs are still in denial about the genocides they committed in Bosnia and Kosovo and Revanchist about Kosovar separatistm. They can't get over the fact that Kosovars don't want to be a part of Serbia, despite the violence Albanians were objects of in the 1990s.

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Would it annoy Estonians if they were playing against Switzerland and a team player showed a Russian nationalist symbol when he scored?

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Original Poster14 points · 22 days ago

Funny tho the Serbian flag also has a double headed eagle.

Dalmatia
8 points · 22 days ago

Nations that were in the Byzantine sphere of influence centuries ago all share the double headed eagle (Russia, Serbia, Albania etc.)

An Adjar in Tuscany
7 points · 21 days ago

Byzantine Eastern Roman

Fixed for you.

Gheg Master Race
3 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Not where the flag of Albania originates from. The oldest form of the double headed eagle was found in Albania believed to be some few thousand years old. There are some pics of it online I'll see if I can find one of good quality but it was basically a very viking looking albanian flag think of it like this one only with 2 heads :

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sq/b/b7/Flag_of_the_Principality_of_Arber.JPG

Just a thousand years old, which is when the Principality of Arbanon existed.

Gheg Master Race
1 point · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

This is a pagan symbol found on stones older than the principality of Arbanon which used it later on in medieval times. BUT This is not the pic, the pic I have is of a stone of the neolithic era, im just trying to figure out how to post it since its from fb and reddit automatically deletes every comment with fb links, I might make a thread about it if there is interest in it dunno.

The stone im referring to has a double headed eagle with a leaf in the middle area, unfortunately said stone was stolen in the late 1980s and its location is unknown

The link of your image clearly states "Flag of the Principality of Arber".

Gheg Master Race
1 point · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Because thats where I got it from. Its not unusual for people to reuse older symbols, Mirdita currently uses the same symbol slightly updated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stema_e_Bashkis%C3%AB_Mirdit%C3%AB.svg I shall post the original stone engraving they both got the symbol from as soon as I find a high quality picture of it.

This is another double headed eagle found in a neolithic area full of inscriptions called Mbigur (Overstone) in Diber : http://www.pashtriku.org/fckeditor/image/pellazget/Shqiponja-dykrenare.jpg

And another metal eagle : http://www.pashtriku.org/fckeditor/image/2015/pellazget-iliret/shqiponja-dykrenare-pashtriku.jpg

This is the most similar to the stone carving im talking about, imagine this but with more angular features and a leaf on its chest: http://www.pashtriku.org/fckeditor/image/2013/pellazget/fatbardha-demi-19.jpg

Greece
3 points · 22 days ago

I'm not an expert but I think the issue is that Albanian ultra nationalists are using this symbol, and at least here in Greece it is connected with their dream of a Greater Albania

For example we had some Albanians last year doing their mandatory service in Greece and they had to do extra 60 days of their service because they took a picture by doing that symbol and it somehow end up in the news.

Serbia
0 points · 22 days ago

Funny how you don't mention Shaqiri wearing the Kosovo flag on his shoe, and talking shit before and after the match.

The Netherlands
13 points · 22 days ago

I think he's allowed to wear the flag of a sovereign nation on his shoes.

Serbia
-3 points · 22 days ago

Dont use such complicated words.

The Valley of the Shadow of Death
17 points · 22 days ago

You're mental buddy. Really mental. You belong in Shtime.

-12 points · 22 days ago(8 children)

I have had this conversation many times. You're from Republika Srpska so maybe the term doesn't exist there, I don't know. Anyway, there is a proper term for Albanians in Serbian, Albanci (I believe). Whenever I have heard a Serb say Siptar, it is in a derogatory/inflammatory/mocking way.

Context matters, and it is not the same word when used in that way. I have family from Kosovo and it has only been used in negative ways against them, Albanci is the proper word.

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Rep. Srpska
1 point · 22 days ago

I'm not sure how that relates to what I said.

-4 points · 22 days ago

It was just that one pundit who said it. You shape the facts to fit your narrative, as if every serbian TV station called them shiptars (they call themselves that btw, literally).

It all started with the shaqiri posts on instagram with him having a kosovo flag on his boots, serbian media just picked up the story and questioned if this is a provocation towards serbia, who is in their group. Once the tabloids started with the clickbait article shit, there was no end. It's no different to english media.

This, however, was personal from shaqiri and xhaka, this is hatred they have for serbia and they expressed it. They knocked serbia out, showed with the eagle that they're albanians to rub salt into the wounds.

I don't like this victim narrative that is being spun by people who do not understand the balkan conflicts.

9 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

I already mentioned about the Siptar thing, look in the comments, and why it's not the same. It's use as a derogatory term by Serbs is well documented. Yes, it was personal for them, because they were affected by the Kosovo war. Again I did not think it was a good idea, but I can understand why they did it, being taunted and booed because they have Albanian heritage, and then doing that as a result to annoy the crowd.

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52 points · 22 days ago

I love this, so there’s been no outcry from the Swiss, but a Serbian Newspaper is saying that Xhaka and Shaqiri have let the Swiss down? Sounds like this newspaper is just way salty that the Swiss won.

The Netherlands
37 points · 22 days ago

Some Swiss papers also called the gesture a provocation betraying a lack of political sensitivity.

But I doubt most ordinary Swiss people care much about Balkan stuff.

That would be a day job. There's always some shit going on over there.

0 points · 22 days ago

Ahh I didn’t read that far, I definitely should of done. Also I guess it makes sense because nationalism is a very strong part of Swiss identity but the national team is so diverse that you’ll be right that the normal person wouldn’t care, especially seeing as they got the win.

Germany
5 points · 22 days ago

Aren't a lot of people in Swiss from the Balkan? Former guest workers and their children and grandchildren.

Yep, where I live there are loads of Swiss/Balkan dual nationals. Also plenty of Swiss people whose family originate in Sri Lanka, Portugal, Spain, Italy... I've never known any Swiss person who was bothered about people feeling close to both countries.

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-10 points · 22 days ago(0 children)

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45 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

And it's not like what they did was unwarranted, since they were constantly booed by the serbs before they did the gesture. Man, I would have liked to get a look at the ultras' triggered faces after the 2 made their move.

Dalmatian in Berlin
11 points · 22 days ago

He was booed by Serbian players? Then they deserve to be kicked out of the tournament. Lets not mix football players and fans.

Yep. The jeers started as soon as the players' names were read aloud during the introductory sequence.

Dalmatian in Berlin
2 points · 21 days ago

So by football players, not the fans?

No, it was only the fans

Dalmatian in Berlin
3 points · 21 days ago

Yes exactly. And that is a big difference.

Serbia
11 points · 22 days ago

Shaqiri bragged on social media before the match how he will have the Kosovo flag on his right shoe versus Serbia. Why wouldn't he be booed?

26 points · 22 days ago

Since when showing your origins is bragging?

Serbia
4 points · 22 days ago

Since it's Kosovo.

Would you be fine with Turks showing North Cyprus flags to Cyprus in the game?

Or Catalans showing the Catalonia flag in a game against Spain?

22 points · 22 days ago

Let's see, two countries that aren't recognized by anyone and a country that is recognized by 111 (58%) United Nations member states, has a fully functioning state, no internal conflict, the albanian population there has been around atleast the past 100 years. Yes, I'm pretty fine with it. Or would you deny that Kosovo doesn't exist and no one can claim their origins?

Serbia
3 points · 22 days ago

Oh you're Albanian, no bother arguing my point then.

22 points · 22 days ago

Oh you’re Serbian, classic. Have some freedom to express ones self 👐🏻

Serbia
-1 points · 22 days ago

Nice English there, bud.

You are not member of UN, so you are in same position with Abhazia,South Osetia and other fake states....

9 points · 22 days ago

Last I checked Albania has been a member state since 14 December 1955, but you read what I said with your arse, so I don't blame you.

We are talking about Kosovo, stop playing fool.

6 points · 22 days ago

Telling me to stop playing a fool when you wont read my comments properly? Get a grip.

Kosovo it's not my country, it's an independent state. But playing by your game, lets see, it's not a member of UN, but it's a member of International Monetary Fund and World Bank. 5 permanent states of UN recognize it's independence and the International Court of Justice has ruled Kosovo independence as in regulation with international law.

I don't know the countries you listed, but it's pointless comparing, facts speak clearly here. Kosovo is it's own democratic country.

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Europe
11 points · 22 days ago

Complete false equivalence.

Serbia
6 points · 22 days ago

Hah right.

13 points · 22 days ago

So why did the others get booed? Albanian Provokacija #1: existing

Serbia
6 points · 22 days ago

Because nobody disapproved of his actions, and did similar provocations

18 points · 22 days ago

Oh really he surely did a bad crime, an evil provocation. He always plays with shoes like these. You just try to bend it like you want and make wild analogies. What's next? Comparing his gesture with the Holocaust?

If a little triangle Kosovo flag triggers one that hard, it's nothing compared to what mass of provocation came from the serbian side. Everything the others did was pointing out that they'll give their best.

It's usual for Albanians to get booed out or spammed full with serbian comments online where-/whenever they are active.

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Italy/Greece
62 points · 22 days ago

But when Serbs make the three finger salute or wear Mladic shirts it’s fine? At least no human being was killed under the Albanian eagle gesture (it’s basically just a nationalistic gesture), can’t say the same for the three finger salute or Mladic.

So hooligans are to be held at the same standard as players now?

I did not see a serbian player do anything provocative all match.

5 points · 22 days ago

Double standards man. When a shithead of a player does something nationalistic is no nig deal, but when people who have nothing with the games outcome, everyone loses their minds. But yeah, that damn crowd, to bully those poor players... Smh

Serbia
19 points · 22 days ago

At least no human being was killed under the Albanian eagle gesture

Yeah, let's totally ignore the ethnic cleansing that took place under that flag in the 1940s and 1990s.

Wtf ,😂😂🤣 what kind of books you read

Serbia
18 points · 22 days ago

In 1940s Albanians comitted mass ethni cleansing in Kosovo in the hopes of forming a Greater Albania.

In the 1990s, Albanians comitted mass ethnic cleansing and expulsed around 100 000 Serbs. and again in 2004.

11 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Your in the wrong movie, what kind of books do you really read, kosovo didnt even had an army back than and it still doesn't, and UCK was only formed just because of the cleansing that Serbia started all over balkan, like in croatia, bosnia and kosovo

And when you look even further Kosovo never belonged to serbia, kosovo was just occupied by serbia for a while like we were occupied by ottoman empire or the turks but that doesn't mean kosovo is turkey, Albanians were always here and will be, but slavs are the one who came to the balkan

Serbia
12 points · 22 days ago

CK was only formed just because of the cleansing that Serbia started all over balkan

Nope, KLA formed before the war started, and started attacking Serbs in 1996, Yugoslav army wasn't even deployed then.

Albanians were always here and will be

Find me one mention of Albanians before the 11th century. As a people.

I didnt say kla was formed in the war 98-99, but when serbs tourtured and force kosovo albanians to leave the country by force such as they did to Shaqiris father and many other familys and kla started as a movement, and the serbs even poisioned the children in the schools, a case is a family member that was a kid back than, we never know what it was so kla was just a self protection from the aggressive Serbs and in 98-99 it was a main force against the serbian army

And you are right about albanians in the balkan, we came from the moon 🌒 and Scanderbeg was serbian 😂

Serbia
12 points · 22 days ago

I didnt say kla was formed in the war 98-99, but when serbs tourtured and force kosovo albanians to leave the country by force such as they did to Shaqiris father and many other familys and kla started as a movement, and the serbs even poisioned the children in the schools, a case is a family member that was a kid back than, we never know what it was

unsourced bullshit.

was so kla was just a self protection from the aggressive Serbs and in 98-99 it was a main force against the serbian army

Self protection by attacking Serbian civilians?

The Serbian/Yugoslav army and police force went into Kosovo after KLA started killing Serbs, not before.

And you are right about albanians in the balkan, we came from the moon

So no mentions? How are you always there then if there are no mentions?

and Scanderbeg was serbian

Half, his mother was Serb, Voisava of the Brankovic family.

The albanian language alone is a best Prove of our existence before the serbians here in the balkan its older that the slavic langauge itself, our tradition our genes our coulture everything tells that Albanian are long long before serbians here, only the fact that Serbians are slavs tells everything that you need to know and you cant deny that, be smarter than that, i think sometimes serbs are just trolling but that the troll goes to far, even Maria Efthimiau and other Greece historians and Croatian historians can't deny that, but the truth is that the nationalist wan't see the truth. I really dont care much about who was here before or later, but such a reaction from serbia only because a futboll player maked a Albanian symbol shows me that Serbians has a problem with itself

And yes Scanderbeg mother was Serbian we dont deny it, we learned that in our history books but Scanderbeg alone wasn't a serb, he fought for the Albanians and its territory together with Albanians, i cant belive that we share almost the same hero, im really tired of all this shit

Serbia
5 points · 21 days ago

The albanian language alone is a best Prove of our existence before the serbians here in the balkan its older that the slavic langauge itself

No it is not.

our tradition our genes our coulture everything tells that Albanian are long

so everything except historical evidence? How does that work?

. I really dont care much about who was here before or later

Then why did you even mention it?

but such a reaction from serbia only because a futboll player maked a Albanian symbol shows me that Serbians has a problem with itself

An Albanian making an Albanian symbol in a Swiss - Serbia match shows that the guy is insecure as f.

we learned that in our history books but Scanderbeg alone wasn't a serb, he fought for the Albanians and its territory together with Albanians

He fought for the Ottomans first, and for the Ottoman people, then for the Albanians

i cant belive that we share almost the same hero, im really tired of all this shit

We don't share,i don't want anything to do with a guy who fought for the Ottomans.

Dalmatia
7 points · 22 days ago

The three finger salute is purely a religious thing as far as I understand, the shirts however...

Italy/Greece
4 points · 22 days ago

As far as I know, the three finger salute was mostly used by the Chetniks, a movement which killed a lot of people for the goal of a greater Serbia. But for other people it symbolizes Serbian unity. Or both.

Canada
1 point · 22 days ago

No I'm pretty sure that's the salute from the hunger games /s

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They were given much crap for wearing the Mladic shirts, just look at the thread. And not just the guys who wore it, but the entirety of Serbian people.

Besides, fans and players aren't the same. A Serbian swimmer, Cavic wore a "Kosovo is Serbia" shirt to a competition a few years ago and he was disqualified for mixing politics with sports. Fans are not punished for getting political - lucky for you - but players are.

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Kosovo
73 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

we trigger them just by existing

No, you trigger us with destroying our medieval churches and killing our people....

Kosovo
34 points · 22 days ago

ironic coming from a serb

Vranje, Serbia
-1 points · 22 days ago

There's somewhat of a difference between vandalizing 12th-century churches which hold high cultural significance as they are in the heartland of the medieval state which defined what it means to be Serbian, vs. mosques that are either less than a hundred years old or a legacy of rapacious Ottoman imperialism.

Shqipëria
25 points · 22 days ago

12th century churches with cultural significance

Mosques that are legacy of rapacious Ottoman imperialism.

As opposed to the Serbian brand of good Imperialism. Give me a break, a lot of mosques in Kosovo were built in the 1400s so your point is invalid. I'm an atheist and don't give 2 fucks about either churches or mosques, but to see the irony in your comment is funny.

Those rapacipus Ottomans you speak about held Kosovo for hundreds of years longer than your empire so that doesn't give your churches any superiority over ottoman mosques.

Republic of Kosovo
25 points · 22 days ago

There's somewhat a difference between destroying inanimate objects and killing and slaughtering 15 thousand people and raping 20 thousand women, you cunt!

Shqipëria
14 points · 22 days ago

Yeah, the inanimate objects are more important apparently.

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Vranje, Serbia
1 point · 22 days ago

The official number of Albanian civilian deaths is ~8600, and there is no official number of rapes.

But you're conveniently forgetting about the fact that the entire region was ethnically cleansed of Serbs for hundreds of years, with periodic systematic rapes and murders by Ottoman authorities, while allowing and supporting Albanians to live in the region, which is why you're here to be offended in the first place.

Republic of Kosovo
16 points · 22 days ago

~8600 ~9000 people? Who the hell cares about the exact number? What does it change? Serbia has committed atrocities in Kosovo, it tried to expel 2 million Albanians from their homes, 20 years ago!!! I honestly don't give a shit what happened to people during the Ottoman era, 200 years ago. The audacity of these people! Unbelievable!

Vranje, Serbia
2 points · 22 days ago

Time doesn't change the fact that these things happened, or their consequences. It only predisposes people to not care that they happened, as you have said. On the other hand, I care very much about it, because not only were those historical atrocities awful on their own terms, they also resulted in a world where Serbs have become an oppressed minority in what used to be their dearest lands. The self-rule given by the communists was abused and Serbs were systematically disadvantaged. That didn't fully end after the fall of Yugoslavia, people continued to be driven out by the actions of Albanians until shortly before the war (including my family and friends), so let's not pretend this was somehow unprovoked.

The Kosovo War was a result of the KLA's actions, the KLA was a result of revoked autonomy, the autonomy was revoked because it was abused, it was abused because of lingering Serb-Albanian tensions from Serb atrocities against the Albanians during the Balkan Wars, that happened because the Albanians were accomplices to the Ottomans in their atrocities against the Serbs. So you cannot choose to ignore this, it's inseparable from the wider issue.

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Campania
19 points · 22 days ago

When celebrating your ethnic heritage is considered a provocation...

United Kingdom
7 points · 21 days ago

Which one Swiss, Albanian or Kosvo? I mean pick one for gods sake.

Campania
4 points · 21 days ago

You can have more than one heritage, you know.
Shoutouts to all 1/8 Irish Americans!

Albania
7 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

It is when for Serbs, incessantly bitter creatures that need to make any excuse for a humiliating loss

Europe
10 points · 22 days ago

Balkan threads are the best threads.

Albania
17 points · 22 days ago

Serbs are the saltiest creatures on this planet lmao, I would have paid huge money to see a collage of Serbian fan faces after Shaqiri's goal

Republic of Kosovo
18 points · 22 days ago

They shouldn't have done it. They represent Switzerland, not Kosovo. These guys have a personal problem with Serbia, and they should declare it and distance Swiss team from their gestures. Since I saw the result of the game and their names I knew salty Serbs will poison this sub on the following days, which imo is totally worth it.

Dalmatia
18 points · 22 days ago

I live in Serbia and personally I have no problem with them flaunting their double headed eagle after every goal (it's their national symbol after all), but doing it while representing the Swiss people at the World Cup in my opinion is just unnecessary.

Republic of Kosovo
5 points · 22 days ago

I agree totally with you. The double-headed eagle gesture is a thing made popular I think after a hip-hop song in the mid-2000s. No harm was done to anybody using that gesture. I don't know why is such a big deal? I don't understand why Serbian media and people care so much for Switzerland and "its broken national pride" by two of its players. I mean you have to feel a bit envious after that goal of Xhaka's, not "empathetic".

Serbia
5 points · 22 days ago

Yes, we are so salty we have to boast our national symbols when not playing for our nation..oh right.

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Original Poster4 points · 22 days ago

All they did was an eagle sign... Serbia even has it on their flag.

Also they were forced migrants. Power to them.

United Kingdom
1 point · 21 days ago

They were people who moved to another country and over took a region of it and now have moved to another country and still celebrate the old country over the new one they are supposed to play for.

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[deleted]
30 points · 22 days ago(More than 89 children)
Earth
8 points · 22 days ago

Poles and serbs

-24 points · 22 days ago(0 children)
United Kingdom
28 points · 22 days ago

They wouldn't be disqualified, that's hyperbole and you know it.

Given what Xhaxa and Shaqiri's family will have probably gone through you can't blame them for displaying something relating to that.

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Montenegro
20 points · 22 days ago

Oh please,like we havent seen your players throw out the three fingers countless times. Grow up,stop playing victim

5 points · 22 days ago

Like these guys did?

Montenegro
6 points · 22 days ago

Am i supposed to feel upset? 28% of the populace identify as serb,its normal some of them are good sportsmen.

Romania
2 points · 22 days ago

What do those three fingers represent?

Montenegro
3 points · 22 days ago

The Serbs use it to represent themselves,kinda like their symbol. Originally I believe it had to do with Orthodoxy and the Holy Trinity but dont take my word for it.

Montenegro
4 points · 22 days ago

Da nisi slučajno iz Ulcinja?

Montenegro
5 points · 22 days ago

Ne,Niksic

Serbia
2 points · 22 days ago

hahahah vazi

Montenegro
8 points · 22 days ago

A ne prijatelju,mora covjek biti albanac da bi mogao da ima neko misljenje koje vama neodgovara.

4 more replies

Serbia
0 points · 22 days ago

I'm not playing victim, im just pointing out double standards

3 more replies

Hinc Robur et Securitas
12 points · 22 days ago

One of those committed genocide, and one of them didn't.

Serbia
3 points · 22 days ago

No, both did terrible things

Original Poster12 points · 22 days ago

The Eu official stance on the issues seems to say that’s not the situation.

The Eu has demanded Serbia acknowledge Kosovo’s independence, in order to consider their application to the Eu. Why they are still fighting.. and there is still tension.. that’s on Serbia at this point.

Serbia
8 points · 22 days ago

The EU never said Serbia has to acknkwledge Kosovo to join

Original Poster19 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Serbia must accept Kosovo independence to join EU: German foreign minister

“If Serbia wants to move toward the European Union, the building of the rule of law is a primary condition, but naturally also the acceptance of Kosovo’s independence,” Gabriel said during a joint press conference with Kosovo’s Prime Minister Ramush Haradinaj.

“That is a central condition to take the path toward Europe.”

Serbia
0 points · 22 days ago

That's not the EU, that's the former foreign minister of Germany. The EU's demand is to sign a binding agreement between Kosovo and Serbia. In fact, EU officials specifically stated that the recognition of Kosovo's independence isn't mandatory.

Original Poster16 points · 22 days ago

Then this article will clear it up for you..

Serbia must reach agreement with Kosovo to join EU by 2025

Sorry... Its the official EU stance, and the majority position by most member states.

BELGRADE (Reuters) - Serbia will have to reach and implement a legally binding agreement on relations with its former province of Kosovo and undergo a string of reforms if it aims to join the EU by 2025, EU enlargement commissioner Johannes Hahn said on Wednesday.

“The EU cannot and will not import bilateral problems ... Serbia must conclude and irreversibly implement a legally binding agreement with Kosovo,” Hahn told a news conference in Belgrade.

Kosovo has been recognized by 115 countries, including 23 out of 28 EU members, but its UN membership is being blocked by Serbia’s allies Russia and China.

Serbia
5 points · 22 days ago

Kosovo has been recognized by 115 countries,

Outdated.

We're supposed to sign a binding agreement, which could be anything, not recognize them.

Serbia
4 points · 22 days ago

Yes, thank you for repeating what I have already written. It's about signing a legally binding agreement, not about recognition of independence.

Because Serbs comitted a genocide and Albanians didn't?

16 points · 22 days ago

Actually, they did. And they continued after the war was officially over

There were no good guys in this conflict.

38 more replies

Shut the fuck up and accept the loose, we didnt complain either when we lost in albania against serbs, sebs are fucking cryy babys, who dont accept the reality

Dont involve religion or politics or other shit that comes in your shity mind like you always do to, the game was fair and both of them just celebrated the goals, and that double eagle is just to represent their haritage

Serbia
3 points · 22 days ago

I'm not complaining about the lost match, i honestly don't give a shit, but i don't like double standards in which Serbia always gets the short end, also you need to relax, why are you insulting me because of a comment on the internet?

1 point · 21 days ago · edited 21 days ago

Following your history post you're are bitching much about the game, and you compare that 3 finger salute thing that Serbia used in the wars with our Double eagle symbol that represent our country?!

The 3 finger salute wasent supposed to be what it is now it was first for a good couse, but you guys made it provocative, serbs used it in the wars to salute the serbian troops and killing in 3 different countrys and soo that the salute become provocative, as far i know or read serbs in bosnia used that symbol so that they wouldn't be killed by the Serbian army isn't that right?

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The salt by the Serbs here is very pleasing

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Basel-Stadt (Switzerland)
12 points · 22 days ago

Politics should not be in sports. Still I do not like at all these gestures even after it was agreed in Swiss there wouldn't be something like that. Couple of my friends think this is just a provocation and should not be displayed during a game. There are tons of players that aren't born in countries they are playing in and still they don't make gestures displaying flag of another country.

Croatia
16 points · 22 days ago

IMO sport and fan culture are crucially linked with politics throughout all of its modern history just look at German Turnverein clubs, zionist Jewish sport organizations or pan-slavic Sokol movement - only FIFA pretends that sport and politics aren't linked and shouldn't be mixed.

Overijssel (Netherlands)
5 points · 22 days ago

I'm pretty sure most people agree that they shouldn't be mixed, even when they clearly are in many cases

Croatia
2 points · 22 days ago

It's a political position if you consider it bad or good.

I believe that more people in non-western countries (and some western) see sport as an outlet of representing ones nation and in a way certain political position. Just remember some football players which were quite outspoken on political positions - Socrates, Cantona... Which makes me remember this film by Cantona - Football Rebels. Like the Algeria or Cote d'Ivoire story from it in some countries sport is a quite important part in formation of post-colonial state identity in some of the multi-ethnic countries (Yugoslavia did that for example too). And remember the identity things like Andy Murray that loses is a Scot, and when winning is a Brit meme (we have exactly the same one with Čilić). I just like sport sociology in general, your compatriot Huizinga wrote a nice book on it - Homo Ludens... Sport is something more than "just" a physical competition IMO.

California
8 points · 22 days ago

Politics should not be in sports.

But let’s host the games in Russia, Qatar, and the United States. 3 of the most scandalous, human-rights abusing countries out there. But talking about politics is where the real problem is!

4 points · 22 days ago

Yeah put it in Belgium they have a spotless record

oh wait, lets try China, never mind, surely Australia? nope, Canada, no... well damn

Original Poster4 points · 22 days ago

Even though FIFA does have a rule against it..

I Think its great. Especially regarding important issues with regards to 'freedom' and opposing any form of genocide/human rights violations/racism.

I love it... It brings meaning to sports.

Mohammed Ali is immortalised for protesting Vietnam.

Jessie Owens immortalised for sticking it to Hitler.

The protests against Aphartheid South African Rugby.

Then again Rugby united a Nation when the South Africans won the Rugby world cup, the most meaningful victory arguably in sports history. United a Nation.. The only country to ever change government so drastically without a civil war.

These guys just want Kosovo independance and an end for civil strife.

Its easy for people to enjoy sports, and be apathetic to the attrocities of the world. But honstly sport is a great platform to be heard and bring meaning.

Comparing those events to the ones in Kosovo is like having history lessons from CNN or FoxNews.

Don't do armchair history in regards to Kosovo it's not black and white.

Original Poster1 point · 22 days ago

Lol.. foxnews.. is bullshit and anyone with half a brain knows it.

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Jarl Karl med Karlahår
7 points · 22 days ago

Fragile little snowflakes

2 more replies

Europe
4 points · 22 days ago

I see no problem with them using the 'double eagle' as a celebration - but they are playing for Switzerland and not Albania. If they identify with Albania and not Switzerland, then they should play for Albania instead.

Original Poster3 points · 22 days ago

This is rediculous. They identify with both. They are immigrants.

They wear one shirt. Make a choice and behave to that. If you can't or won't, don't represent one country.

Original Poster2 points · 21 days ago

They are also proud of their heritage and the country they represent.

And news flash... they are citizens of both.

And no no choice is needed. Because we are free men. They are living the dream, whilst you cry on reddit.

-1 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

If FIFA is not punishing them, then every player can wear the flag he wants on their shoes... I thought politics are not allowed. If the Serbs would waer the flag of the Republic of Krajina while playing against Croatia I bet FIFA would kick them out. Its just hypocritical. FIFA just created a precedent like the IS created a precedent with Kosovo (Crimea, Abchasia and other regions were following)

Kosovo
13 points · 22 days ago

You gave examples of countries recognized by 1 or 2 countries and Kosovo that’s recognized by the majority of the world and is a FIFA member. But ok.

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Original Poster1 point · 22 days ago

Emblems on kit has more to do with sponsorship.

1337uania
1 point · 22 days ago

I was wondering what that gesture was all about.

Montenegro
1 point · 22 days ago

Why is it considered provocative? If its meant to bate serbs,why take the bait?

It shows more about the person using that tactic and,in my view,disrespecting the country he plays for. It would have been far better if noone reacted to this. He signaled the eagle,the end.

Comment deleted22 days ago(1 child)
Original Poster3 points · 22 days ago

Unbelievable that fans can come into a stadium with a Milosovich t-shirt..

Its almost as bad as a German walking in with a swastika and a Nazi t-shirt when they play Israel.

Hungary
1 point · 22 days ago

Football hooligans are the most political and rudest groups ever. I remember when there was a Hungary vs Romania match and there were also plenty of disgraceful acts on both sides.

I might be biased here, but I don't believe in civilized European football fans who also happen to be in the stadium. They are all as wild as animals.

Original Poster2 points · 22 days ago

Rubbish. Firstly a World Cup is more expensive. And everyone wants to go, not just football ‘hooligans’. Many travel and make a holiday out of it too. Entire families/business executives. And many other people from all walks of life.

Crowds are much better at the World Cup in general. There is rarely the type of violence you see where they get season tickets for club teams.

And honestly, if the World Cup is in your host nation, almost everyone tries to get tickets to at least one game.

[deleted]
-9 points · 22 days ago(1 child)
Serbia
1 point · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

But they can't get anywhere and rich in Albania or Kosovo. It's easy being an Albanian nationalist in Switzerland.

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