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[–]EstoniaSigakoer 68 points69 points  (98 children)

Remember the French outrage when an English player showed a two-finger V salute after scoring a goal!

[–]ak_miller 37 points38 points  (69 children)

Am French, don't remember that.

[–]EstoniaSigakoer 65 points66 points  (68 children)

That's the joke.

[–]Scusemahfrench 15 points16 points  (67 children)

I'm sorry can you explain I'm very dumb

[–]EstoniaSigakoer 15 points16 points  (66 children)

French wouldn't have any outrage about something like that and the Serb outrage is about something much smaller.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 8 points9 points  (39 children)

Im sure the Cypriots would have a problem with Aziz Behic putting a North Cypriot flag on his shoes and showing the Crescent when scoring against them.

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Cyprus was illegally ocupied by Turkey.. The situation is completely different.

The only country acknowledging North Cyprus and the illegal occupation is Turkey. Vastly different to Kosovo, where the majority of the world accept Kosovo as independent.

In any case you are right, that Cyprus has not acknowledged Kosovo as independant.. But it is strictly due to not wanting to set a precedent based on the fact that a majority race in a region has 'control' of that region... But the fact remains that North Cyprus was majority Greek.. And the Greeks were forcibly removed from their homes. Kosovo however is 90 percent albanian.. And nobody forced Non-Albanians out to get to that percentage.

[–]Gheg Master RaceThe_Drangue 23 points24 points  (35 children)

But I doubt Cypriots get into a game where you hear people chant "Kill all Cypriots" whilst wearing shirts of convicted war criminals and get booed every time they touch the ball.

& Shaqiri has been wearing that flag on his shoes since he was 17 and the Eagle symbol has nothing to do with Kosovo.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim -5 points-4 points  (32 children)

But I doubt Cypriots get into a game where you hear people chant "Kill all Cypriots" whilst wearing shirts of convicted war criminals and get booed

Lol, don't pull that shit, you also chant Kill the Serbs when you get a chance to. I also doubt they would pull drones with Greater Cyprus or some shit like that but here we are.

& Shaqiri has been wearing that flag on his shoes since he was 17

And that makes it fine even if true?

and the Eagle symbol has nothing to do with Kosovo.

Right, and why was he doing it then?

[–]Gheg Master RaceThe_Drangue 24 points25 points  (30 children)

Lol, don't pull that shit, you also chant Kill the Serbs when you get a chance to.

We got our chance when you played in Albania. Did you hear any chants? Any uproar when your anthem was sung? Any sexually frustrated hooligans go on the pitch to hit the players? Just because you have a history of such a disgusting behaviour doesn't mean others do.

And that makes it fine even if true?

Its true and you can google it. He has worn the Swiss and Kosovo flag since his teen years since he considers them his home. You think its fine for him to remove it in this match because the hooligans feelings get hurt? Also what kind of goggles do you use to see some mini flags on a players shoes in the middle of a stadium??

Right, and why was he doing it then?

A good comeback to every single orangutang provoking him everytime he touched the ball and chanting racist verses against him for no other reason than his origins. Unless of course you consider these actions to be less provocative than a hand gesture that literally means Albanian :

https://streamable.com/3x05a

https://i.imgur.com/zDxqC7x.jpg

https://i.redditmedia.com/W11rp9iotYnzQUNwgEwGdmAts1_nTRONWf0EESlqQVs.jpg?w=750&s=7db1400da6bff3b5248325822111af91

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niW10T-OFLg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdhZPJhL3DA

And the cute Chetnik flag was also displayed by the innocent serbian fans in a totally not provocative manner.

[–]Gheg Master RaceThe_Drangue 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am gonna end your mad mans babbles here so you can also see how the argument started, and you can see to where it devolved as I previously mentioned.

Helskrim, you wanted to know if Shaqs symbol was provoked or not, when you got the proof you wanted you dissmissed the information and tried to turn it into a minor incident.

You complained about the move being too political while the stadium had people in Mladic shirts, Kosovo Je Serbia Shirts and primordial screams of Ubi Siptari whenever the Albanians touched the ball.

Yet you have turned the "debate" into pure politics and dick sizing competition from the National GDP, to Drones, to Radicalism, to the History and Culture of another nation, only because of a hand sign which you somehow interpreted as a sign for Greater Albania. THIS is why I called you an idiot because you contradict your own words and create double standards or as we call it, Justice for me not for thee

Yet you knew you were in the wrong which is why the "debate" became less and less about shaq and more and more about your Serbian Media filtered view on Albanians and Albania. You even had the audacity to link me to r/serbia as if it were controlled and brigaded by us, only for me to find you pathetically calling us barbaric and tribal; A thread by a fake swiss account with everyone insulting Shaq and pretty much sharing the same idea; A thread by a real foreigner who got downvoted to hell because he didn't share your view and a thread about 2 more idiots being one who calls us Siptar on live TV and another who compares the loss to the Hague Tribunal....Oh and your poor excuse of a comment where you were looking for backup on the apparently albanian briggaded r/serbia.

As of 2018 I have yet to see anyone or anything triggered by Djokovic' three finger salute everytime he won or when he got the prize. Why? Because he is free to do whatever he wants, and nobody cares about a salute, as we can see here and in other places, not all people are equal.

But, I am not like you or the other orangutangs like you, I do not condone hooligans of any kind or stature, which is why I separated Serbian Hooligans from Serbia, something which you yourself are incapable of. You can keep on bambling on your fools errand to prove to me that a hand salute is worse than what the world reknown hooligans did not just in the stadium but also in Vienna, I know that even in your own sub people agree with me, so this is just you and the rest of the "patriotic" coallition. Everyone else who has decency and self pride would find only disgust to be associated with those animals, like these fellas have shown:

http://goedhartvoordieren.nl/?page=r/serbia/comments/8td39v/fifa_pokrenula_postupak_protiv_d%C5%BEake_i_%C5%A1a%C4%87irija/e16o7pr/

http://goedhartvoordieren.nl/?page=r/soccer/comments/8t9deh/serbian_supporters_praising_ratko_mladic_mass/e15ye76/

You Helskrim are one of the "Patriots" of the internet as we call them. Incapable of free independent thought and spewing whats on the state news of Belgrade, and if i am lucky, you will ironically also be a diaspora, prefferably in Germany-England which would be the cherry on top. Not to mention the fact that everytime you got caught doing or saying controversial things proving your bias and double standards you called : Stalker!

So to end it with an insult to what can only be literal human garbage for doing everything he can to damage control what can only be monkey behavior by hooligans that any rational person would be ashamed of, you try to look like this : https://i.pinimg.com/736x/48/2c/27/482c27d0f8364a1cb5077f8e7c040f22.jpg

Whilst having the wit of this:

http://www.mediasmarties.nl/media/uploads/producties/s/shr/Shrek.jpg

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 22 points23 points  (12 children)

Remember when Milorad Cavic was disqualified in the Olympics when he revealed a Kosovo is Serbia shirt?

I 'member.

[–]Albanianemun 19 points20 points  (4 children)

Albanian eagle and Kosovo is Serbia are not even remotely equivalent

One is a charged political statement delusional of reality and the other is literally just an Albanian symbol

[–]SerbiaHelskrim -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Albanian eagle and Kosovo is Serbia are not even remotely equivalent

They are, since Albania did not play in the match, had we been playing Albania, i'd say fuck it, but we were playing Switzerland.

[–]a__dead__man 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Few Albanians were playing tho

[–]United Kingdomdickbutts3000 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Then they are a bit lost.

[–]a__dead__man 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You've missed the point of what we're talking about completely

[–]Kosovobxfn 19 points20 points  (6 children)

One is a political statement, the other is celebrating the Albanian flag. Victim complex.

Still waiting for you to apologize in the Liberia fake news thread.

[–]i_getitin 16 points17 points  (0 children)

An Albanian talking about victim complex ?

GOLD!

[–]Heuchlerdassammamia 7 points8 points  (1 child)

not just albanian flag, also the "kosovo flag"

[–]Deutschlandchairswinger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

technically also Montenegrin

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It's not fake news, their MFA is still in Serbia (or was yesterday) probably will clear it up when he gets home.

One is a political statement, the other is celebrating the Albanian flag.

Celebrating the Albanian flag in a Switzerland - Serbia football match.

Victim complex.

Yes, i've been posting articles about Serbia the whole day, and comments alongside Yess !1 they also commited genocide on Kosova lol.

[–]BullNiro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The two of them have been abused all week and during the match for being Albanian. You get what you give.

[–]United Kingdomdickbutts3000 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A Swiss Albanian making Kosovo statements. Ahh and people say refugees and immigration doesn't break up countries.

[–]Dalmatian in BerlinSiriuscili 11 points12 points  (14 children)

Its not an equivalent situation. Imagine Estonia playing against France and then a (fictional) french player of Russian origin starts provoking with some Russian nationalistic symbols? The gesture surely is nationalistic, also often associated with the concept of great Albania which claims a nice chunk of Serbia (not Kosovo, a good part of the real Serbia, one without Kosovo), Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece.

[–]EstoniaSigakoer 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Wouldn't care. Wouldn't find some two headed eagle hand-sign provoking at all. Wouldn't log into reddit and feel outrage on behalf of the French.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

bullshit you wouldnt

[–]Dalmatian in BerlinSiriuscili 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not with an USSR flag? Because that would be a better equivalent.

[–]Kosovobxfn 5 points6 points  (10 children)

It’s literally a representation of the double-headed eagle in the Albanian flag. This great albania bullshit is mental gymnastics.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 16 points17 points  (9 children)

And where is Albania in this match?

Right they got kicked out in the qualifications, so why the need for an Albanian flag?

The dude isn't even Albanian.

[–]Kosovobxfn 15 points16 points  (8 children)

According to you he’s not Albanian - according to your pals he’s not Swiss - the dude can’t catch a break lmao.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 5 points6 points  (7 children)

He's not an Albanian from Albania, he's an Albanian from Serbia, Kosovo specifically.
So he has no reason to show an Albanian eagle because a) he's not Albanian b) He's playing for the Swiss national team.

[–]Kosovobxfn 22 points23 points  (6 children)

He’s an Albanian from the Republic of Kosovo. Here’s potential reasons why he can do the Albanian eagle celebration:

a) he wants to.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 4 points5 points  (5 children)

So wait, he's showing Albanian symbols but he's from Kosovo and plays for Switzerland?

[–]Kosovobxfn 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Is this meant to be a rhetorical question?

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 8 points9 points  (2 children)

It’s literally a representation of the double-headed eagle in the Albanian flag.

He's from Kosovo and plays for the national team of Switzerland, what does the Albanian double headed eagle have to do with either of those?

[–]PancakesYoYo 98 points99 points  (49 children)

They were taunted by Serb media, taunted and booed by Serb fans in the stadium. Here's something from Serbian TV where they call them Siptars when talking about the match (derogatory term Serbs use for Albanians) https://streamable.com/3x05a Would be better if they hadn't done it IMO but I can't blame them. They were being provoked, so seeing Serbs mad about this "provocation" is funny.

[–]EstoniaSigakoer 12 points13 points  (27 children)

What exactly is the significance of this gesture and why are people upset?

[–]PancakesYoYo 59 points60 points  (25 children)

It's meant to look like a double-headed Eagle, as in the Albanian flag. So when they scored (The players that scored are Albanian ethnicity) and did that symbol it annoyed Serbs as they were doing it because they were against Serbia.

[–]EstoniaSigakoer 28 points29 points  (14 children)

Why did it annoy Serbs?

[–]PancakesYoYo 45 points46 points  (8 children)

Because of history between Albanians and Serbs. Shaqiri and Xhaka specifically are from Kosovo, and I think they were affected by the war there in some capacity. I know Xhaka's father was a political prisoner for a few years.

[–]EstoniaSigakoer 43 points44 points  (6 children)

Right now I understand that the symbol just meant Albania, so it wasn't like Sieg Heil or anything. Why get upset about that?

[–]PancakesYoYo 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I mean there's a lot of history there but put it simply, Serbs and Albanians are not so fond of each other, so when two players of Albanian ethnicity flaunt it in front of them after scoring, Serbs got annoyed.

[–]South Tyrolstandy85 31 points32 points  (2 children)

because the Serbs are still in denial about the genocides they committed in Bosnia and Kosovo and Revanchist about Kosovar separatistm. They can't get over the fact that Kosovars don't want to be a part of Serbia, despite the violence Albanians were objects of in the 1990s.

[–]cydron56 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Would it annoy Estonians if they were playing against Switzerland and a team player showed a Russian nationalist symbol when he scored?

[–]JanezIvanJansa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

because Kosovo

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 12 points13 points  (9 children)

Funny tho the Serbian flag also has a double headed eagle.

[–]DalmatiaItsmethe_T 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Nations that were in the Byzantine sphere of influence centuries ago all share the double headed eagle (Russia, Serbia, Albania etc.)

[–]An Adjar in Tuscanyadjarteapot 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Byzantine Eastern Roman

Fixed for you.

[–]Gheg Master RaceThe_Drangue 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Not where the flag of Albania originates from. The oldest form of the double headed eagle was found in Albania believed to be some few thousand years old. There are some pics of it online I'll see if I can find one of good quality but it was basically a very viking looking albanian flag think of it like this one only with 2 heads :

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sq/b/b7/Flag_of_the_Principality_of_Arber.JPG

[–]Atharaphelun 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Just a thousand years old, which is when the Principality of Arbanon existed.

[–]Gheg Master RaceThe_Drangue 0 points1 point  (4 children)

This is a pagan symbol found on stones older than the principality of Arbanon which used it later on in medieval times. BUT This is not the pic, the pic I have is of a stone of the neolithic era, im just trying to figure out how to post it since its from fb and reddit automatically deletes every comment with fb links, I might make a thread about it if there is interest in it dunno.

The stone im referring to has a double headed eagle with a leaf in the middle area, unfortunately said stone was stolen in the late 1980s and its location is unknown

[–]Atharaphelun 1 point2 points  (3 children)

The link of your image clearly states "Flag of the Principality of Arber".

[–]Gheg Master RaceThe_Drangue 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Because thats where I got it from. Its not unusual for people to reuse older symbols, Mirdita currently uses the same symbol slightly updated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stema_e_Bashkis%C3%AB_Mirdit%C3%AB.svg I shall post the original stone engraving they both got the symbol from as soon as I find a high quality picture of it.

This is another double headed eagle found in a neolithic area full of inscriptions called Mbigur (Overstone) in Diber : http://www.pashtriku.org/fckeditor/image/pellazget/Shqiponja-dykrenare.jpg

And another metal eagle : http://www.pashtriku.org/fckeditor/image/2015/pellazget-iliret/shqiponja-dykrenare-pashtriku.jpg

This is the most similar to the stone carving im talking about, imagine this but with more angular features and a leaf on its chest: http://www.pashtriku.org/fckeditor/image/2013/pellazget/fatbardha-demi-19.jpg

[–]Greece-Luciddream- 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm not an expert but I think the issue is that Albanian ultra nationalists are using this symbol, and at least here in Greece it is connected with their dream of a Greater Albania

For example we had some Albanians last year doing their mandatory service in Greece and they had to do extra 60 days of their service because they took a picture by doing that symbol and it somehow end up in the news.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Funny how you don't mention Shaqiri wearing the Kosovo flag on his shoe, and talking shit before and after the match.

[–]The Valley of the Shadow of DeathTinFoilHatFactory 18 points19 points  (0 children)

You're mental buddy. Really mental. You belong in Shtime.

[–]The Netherlandsplunjukl 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I think he's allowed to wear the flag of a sovereign nation on his shoes.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Dont use such complicated words.

[–]M4ttDMD 56 points57 points  (12 children)

I love this, so there’s been no outcry from the Swiss, but a Serbian Newspaper is saying that Xhaka and Shaqiri have let the Swiss down? Sounds like this newspaper is just way salty that the Swiss won.

[–]The NetherlandsLeocto 36 points37 points  (7 children)

Some Swiss papers also called the gesture a provocation betraying a lack of political sensitivity.

But I doubt most ordinary Swiss people care much about Balkan stuff.

That would be a day job. There's always some shit going on over there.

[–]M4ttDMD 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Ahh I didn’t read that far, I definitely should of done. Also I guess it makes sense because nationalism is a very strong part of Swiss identity but the national team is so diverse that you’ll be right that the normal person wouldn’t care, especially seeing as they got the win.

[–]GermanyLobMob 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Aren't a lot of people in Swiss from the Balkan? Former guest workers and their children and grandchildren.

[–]tchernychevski 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, where I live there are loads of Swiss/Balkan dual nationals. Also plenty of Swiss people whose family originate in Sri Lanka, Portugal, Spain, Italy... I've never known any Swiss person who was bothered about people feeling close to both countries.

[–]Malikryo 41 points42 points  (29 children)

And it's not like what they did was unwarranted, since they were constantly booed by the serbs before they did the gesture. Man, I would have liked to get a look at the ultras' triggered faces after the 2 made their move.

[–]Dalmatian in BerlinSiriuscili 12 points13 points  (4 children)

He was booed by Serbian players? Then they deserve to be kicked out of the tournament. Lets not mix football players and fans.

[–]Malikryo 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Yep. The jeers started as soon as the players' names were read aloud during the introductory sequence.

[–]Dalmatian in BerlinSiriuscili 1 point2 points  (2 children)

So by football players, not the fans?

[–]Malikryo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No, it was only the fans

[–]Dalmatian in BerlinSiriuscili 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes exactly. And that is a big difference.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 9 points10 points  (22 children)

Shaqiri bragged on social media before the match how he will have the Kosovo flag on his right shoe versus Serbia. Why wouldn't he be booed?

[–]Ianor 25 points26 points  (18 children)

Since when showing your origins is bragging?

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 4 points5 points  (17 children)

Since it's Kosovo.

Would you be fine with Turks showing North Cyprus flags to Cyprus in the game?

Or Catalans showing the Catalonia flag in a game against Spain?

[–]Ianor 20 points21 points  (14 children)

Let's see, two countries that aren't recognized by anyone and a country that is recognized by 111 (58%) United Nations member states, has a fully functioning state, no internal conflict, the albanian population there has been around atleast the past 100 years. Yes, I'm pretty fine with it. Or would you deny that Kosovo doesn't exist and no one can claim their origins?

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Oh you're Albanian, no bother arguing my point then.

[–]Ianor 30 points31 points  (1 child)

Oh you’re Serbian, classic. Have some freedom to express ones self 👐🏻

[–]SerbiaHelskrim -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Nice English there, bud.

[–]Sandukdst -3 points-2 points  (6 children)

You are not member of UN, so you are in same position with Abhazia,South Osetia and other fake states....

[–]Ianor 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Last I checked Albania has been a member state since 14 December 1955, but you read what I said with your arse, so I don't blame you.

[–]Sandukdst -1 points0 points  (4 children)

We are talking about Kosovo, stop playing fool.

[–]Ianor 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Telling me to stop playing a fool when you wont read my comments properly? Get a grip.

Kosovo it's not my country, it's an independent state. But playing by your game, lets see, it's not a member of UN, but it's a member of International Monetary Fund and World Bank. 5 permanent states of UN recognize it's independence and the International Court of Justice has ruled Kosovo independence as in regulation with international law.

I don't know the countries you listed, but it's pointless comparing, facts speak clearly here. Kosovo is it's own democratic country.

[–]EuropeScarecroft 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Complete false equivalence.

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hah right.

[–]mxbxp 12 points13 points  (2 children)

So why did the others get booed? Albanian Provokacija #1: existing

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Because nobody disapproved of his actions, and did similar provocations

[–]mxbxp 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Oh really he surely did a bad crime, an evil provocation. He always plays with shoes like these. You just try to bend it like you want and make wild analogies. What's next? Comparing his gesture with the Holocaust?

If a little triangle Kosovo flag triggers one that hard, it's nothing compared to what mass of provocation came from the serbian side. Everything the others did was pointing out that they'll give their best.

It's usual for Albanians to get booed out or spammed full with serbian comments online where-/whenever they are active.

[–]Europemindalero 60 points61 points  (20 children)

But when Serbs make the three finger salute or wear Mladic shirts it’s fine? At least no human being was killed under the Albanian eagle gesture (it’s basically just a nationalistic gesture), can’t say the same for the three finger salute or Mladic.

[–]sanufimipocriti 25 points26 points  (1 child)

So hooligans are to be held at the same standard as players now?

I did not see a serbian player do anything provocative all match.

[–]koljap7 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Double standards man. When a shithead of a player does something nationalistic is no nig deal, but when people who have nothing with the games outcome, everyone loses their minds. But yeah, that damn crowd, to bully those poor players... Smh

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 20 points21 points  (10 children)

At least no human being was killed under the Albanian eagle gesture

Yeah, let's totally ignore the ethnic cleansing that took place under that flag in the 1940s and 1990s.

[–]HonKasumi -2 points-1 points  (9 children)

Wtf ,😂😂🤣 what kind of books you read

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 20 points21 points  (8 children)

In 1940s Albanians comitted mass ethni cleansing in Kosovo in the hopes of forming a Greater Albania.

In the 1990s, Albanians comitted mass ethnic cleansing and expulsed around 100 000 Serbs. and again in 2004.

[–]HonKasumi 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Your in the wrong movie, what kind of books do you really read, kosovo didnt even had an army back than and it still doesn't, and UCK was only formed just because of the cleansing that Serbia started all over balkan, like in croatia, bosnia and kosovo

And when you look even further Kosovo never belonged to serbia, kosovo was just occupied by serbia for a while like we were occupied by ottoman empire or the turks but that doesn't mean kosovo is turkey, Albanians were always here and will be, but slavs are the one who came to the balkan

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 12 points13 points  (6 children)

CK was only formed just because of the cleansing that Serbia started all over balkan

Nope, KLA formed before the war started, and started attacking Serbs in 1996, Yugoslav army wasn't even deployed then.

Albanians were always here and will be

Find me one mention of Albanians before the 11th century. As a people.

[–]HonKasumi 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I didnt say kla was formed in the war 98-99, but when serbs tourtured and force kosovo albanians to leave the country by force such as they did to Shaqiris father and many other familys and kla started as a movement, and the serbs even poisioned the children in the schools, a case is a family member that was a kid back than, we never know what it was so kla was just a self protection from the aggressive Serbs and in 98-99 it was a main force against the serbian army

And you are right about albanians in the balkan, we came from the moon 🌒 and Scanderbeg was serbian 😂

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I didnt say kla was formed in the war 98-99, but when serbs tourtured and force kosovo albanians to leave the country by force such as they did to Shaqiris father and many other familys and kla started as a movement, and the serbs even poisioned the children in the schools, a case is a family member that was a kid back than, we never know what it was

unsourced bullshit.

was so kla was just a self protection from the aggressive Serbs and in 98-99 it was a main force against the serbian army

Self protection by attacking Serbian civilians?

The Serbian/Yugoslav army and police force went into Kosovo after KLA started killing Serbs, not before.

And you are right about albanians in the balkan, we came from the moon

So no mentions? How are you always there then if there are no mentions?

and Scanderbeg was serbian

Half, his mother was Serb, Voisava of the Brankovic family.

[–]HonKasumi 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The albanian language alone is a best Prove of our existence before the serbians here in the balkan its older that the slavic langauge itself, our tradition our genes our coulture everything tells that Albanian are long long before serbians here, only the fact that Serbians are slavs tells everything that you need to know and you cant deny that, be smarter than that, i think sometimes serbs are just trolling but that the troll goes to far, even Maria Efthimiau and other Greece historians and Croatian historians can't deny that, but the truth is that the nationalist wan't see the truth. I really dont care much about who was here before or later, but such a reaction from serbia only because a futboll player maked a Albanian symbol shows me that Serbians has a problem with itself

And yes Scanderbeg mother was Serbian we dont deny it, we learned that in our history books but Scanderbeg alone wasn't a serb, he fought for the Albanians and its territory together with Albanians, i cant belive that we share almost the same hero, im really tired of all this shit

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The albanian language alone is a best Prove of our existence before the serbians here in the balkan its older that the slavic langauge itself

No it is not.

our tradition our genes our coulture everything tells that Albanian are long

so everything except historical evidence? How does that work?

. I really dont care much about who was here before or later

Then why did you even mention it?

but such a reaction from serbia only because a futboll player maked a Albanian symbol shows me that Serbians has a problem with itself

An Albanian making an Albanian symbol in a Swiss - Serbia match shows that the guy is insecure as f.

we learned that in our history books but Scanderbeg alone wasn't a serb, he fought for the Albanians and its territory together with Albanians

He fought for the Ottomans first, and for the Ottoman people, then for the Albanians

i cant belive that we share almost the same hero, im really tired of all this shit

We don't share,i don't want anything to do with a guy who fought for the Ottomans.

[–]DalmatiaItsmethe_T 7 points8 points  (4 children)

The three finger salute is purely a religious thing as far as I understand, the shirts however...

[–]Europemindalero 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As far as I know, the three finger salute was mostly used by the Chetniks, a movement which killed a lot of people for the goal of a greater Serbia. But for other people it symbolizes Serbian unity. Or both.

[–]Canadacchiu23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No I'm pretty sure that's the salute from the hunger games /s

[–]BoxxyFoxxy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They were given much crap for wearing the Mladic shirts, just look at the thread. And not just the guys who wore it, but the entirety of Serbian people.

Besides, fans and players aren't the same. A Serbian swimmer, Cavic wore a "Kosovo is Serbia" shirt to a competition a few years ago and he was disqualified for mixing politics with sports. Fans are not punished for getting political - lucky for you - but players are.

[–]Kosovokaqkavalli 72 points73 points  (22 children)

we trigger them just by existing

[–]Sandukdst 6 points7 points  (20 children)

No, you trigger us with destroying our medieval churches and killing our people....

[–]Kosovokaqkavalli 35 points36 points  (19 children)

ironic coming from a serb

[–]Vranje, SerbiaTwoSquareClocks -2 points-1 points  (15 children)

There's somewhat of a difference between vandalizing 12th-century churches which hold high cultural significance as they are in the heartland of the medieval state which defined what it means to be Serbian, vs. mosques that are either less than a hundred years old or a legacy of rapacious Ottoman imperialism.

[–]Shqipëria__sovereign__ 24 points25 points  (0 children)

12th century churches with cultural significance

Mosques that are legacy of rapacious Ottoman imperialism.

As opposed to the Serbian brand of good Imperialism. Give me a break, a lot of mosques in Kosovo were built in the 1400s so your point is invalid. I'm an atheist and don't give 2 fucks about either churches or mosques, but to see the irony in your comment is funny.

Those rapacipus Ottomans you speak about held Kosovo for hundreds of years longer than your empire so that doesn't give your churches any superiority over ottoman mosques.

[–]Republic of Kosovogarrota 22 points23 points  (13 children)

There's somewhat a difference between destroying inanimate objects and killing and slaughtering 15 thousand people and raping 20 thousand women, you cunt!

[–]Shqipëria__sovereign__ 16 points17 points  (9 children)

Yeah, the inanimate objects are more important apparently.

[–]Vranje, SerbiaTwoSquareClocks 4 points5 points  (2 children)

The official number of Albanian civilian deaths is ~8600, and there is no official number of rapes.

But you're conveniently forgetting about the fact that the entire region was ethnically cleansed of Serbs for hundreds of years, with periodic systematic rapes and murders by Ottoman authorities, while allowing and supporting Albanians to live in the region, which is why you're here to be offended in the first place.

[–]Republic of Kosovogarrota 13 points14 points  (1 child)

~8600 ~9000 people? Who the hell cares about the exact number? What does it change? Serbia has committed atrocities in Kosovo, it tried to expel 2 million Albanians from their homes, 20 years ago!!! I honestly don't give a shit what happened to people during the Ottoman era, 200 years ago. The audacity of these people! Unbelievable!

[–]Vranje, SerbiaTwoSquareClocks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Time doesn't change the fact that these things happened, or their consequences. It only predisposes people to not care that they happened, as you have said. On the other hand, I care very much about it, because not only were those historical atrocities awful on their own terms, they also resulted in a world where Serbs have become an oppressed minority in what used to be their dearest lands. The self-rule given by the communists was abused and Serbs were systematically disadvantaged. That didn't fully end after the fall of Yugoslavia, people continued to be driven out by the actions of Albanians until shortly before the war (including my family and friends), so let's not pretend this was somehow unprovoked.

The Kosovo War was a result of the KLA's actions, the KLA was a result of revoked autonomy, the autonomy was revoked because it was abused, it was abused because of lingering Serb-Albanian tensions from Serb atrocities against the Albanians during the Balkan Wars, that happened because the Albanians were accomplices to the Ottomans in their atrocities against the Serbs. So you cannot choose to ignore this, it's inseparable from the wider issue.

[–]EuropeFriendOfOrder 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Balkan threads are the best threads.

[–]Campaniagallifreyan_pleb 21 points22 points  (3 children)

When celebrating your ethnic heritage is considered a provocation...

[–]United Kingdomdickbutts3000 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Which one Swiss, Albanian or Kosvo? I mean pick one for gods sake.

[–]Campaniagallifreyan_pleb 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can have more than one heritage, you know.
Shoutouts to all 1/8 Irish Americans!

[–]Albanianemun 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It is when for Serbs, incessantly bitter creatures that need to make any excuse for a humiliating loss

[–]Albanianemun 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Serbs are the saltiest creatures on this planet lmao, I would have paid huge money to see a collage of Serbian fan faces after Shaqiri's goal

[–]Republic of Kosovogarrota 20 points21 points  (10 children)

They shouldn't have done it. They represent Switzerland, not Kosovo. These guys have a personal problem with Serbia, and they should declare it and distance Swiss team from their gestures. Since I saw the result of the game and their names I knew salty Serbs will poison this sub on the following days, which imo is totally worth it.

[–]DalmatiaItsmethe_T 17 points18 points  (1 child)

I live in Serbia and personally I have no problem with them flaunting their double headed eagle after every goal (it's their national symbol after all), but doing it while representing the Swiss people at the World Cup in my opinion is just unnecessary.

[–]Republic of Kosovogarrota 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree totally with you. The double-headed eagle gesture is a thing made popular I think after a hip-hop song in the mid-2000s. No harm was done to anybody using that gesture. I don't know why is such a big deal? I don't understand why Serbian media and people care so much for Switzerland and "its broken national pride" by two of its players. I mean you have to feel a bit envious after that goal of Xhaka's, not "empathetic".

[–]SerbiaHelskrim 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yes, we are so salty we have to boast our national symbols when not playing for our nation..oh right.

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

All they did was an eagle sign... Serbia even has it on their flag.

Also they were forced migrants. Power to them.

[–]United Kingdomdickbutts3000 2 points3 points  (4 children)

They were people who moved to another country and over took a region of it and now have moved to another country and still celebrate the old country over the new one they are supposed to play for.

[–]Linquista 7 points8 points  (1 child)

The salt by the Serbs here is very pleasing

[–]Basel-Stadt (Switzerland)Sheldor777 12 points13 points  (9 children)

Politics should not be in sports. Still I do not like at all these gestures even after it was agreed in Swiss there wouldn't be something like that. Couple of my friends think this is just a provocation and should not be displayed during a game. There are tons of players that aren't born in countries they are playing in and still they don't make gestures displaying flag of another country.

[–]Croatiadzungla_zg 16 points17 points  (2 children)

IMO sport and fan culture are crucially linked with politics throughout all of its modern history just look at German Turnverein clubs, zionist Jewish sport organizations or pan-slavic Sokol movement - only FIFA pretends that sport and politics aren't linked and shouldn't be mixed.

[–]Overijssel (Netherlands)Het_Bestemmingsplan 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I'm pretty sure most people agree that they shouldn't be mixed, even when they clearly are in many cases

[–]Croatiadzungla_zg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a political position if you consider it bad or good.

I believe that more people in non-western countries (and some western) see sport as an outlet of representing ones nation and in a way certain political position. Just remember some football players which were quite outspoken on political positions - Socrates, Cantona... Which makes me remember this film by Cantona - Football Rebels. Like the Algeria or Cote d'Ivoire story from it in some countries sport is a quite important part in formation of post-colonial state identity in some of the multi-ethnic countries (Yugoslavia did that for example too). And remember the identity things like Andy Murray that loses is a Scot, and when winning is a Brit meme (we have exactly the same one with Čilić). I just like sport sociology in general, your compatriot Huizinga wrote a nice book on it - Homo Ludens... Sport is something more than "just" a physical competition IMO.

[–]CaliforniaShill_Nye 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Politics should not be in sports.

But let’s host the games in Russia, Qatar, and the United States. 3 of the most scandalous, human-rights abusing countries out there. But talking about politics is where the real problem is!

[–]1maco 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah put it in Belgium they have a spotless record

oh wait, lets try China, never mind, surely Australia? nope, Canada, no... well damn

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Even though FIFA does have a rule against it..

I Think its great. Especially regarding important issues with regards to 'freedom' and opposing any form of genocide/human rights violations/racism.

I love it... It brings meaning to sports.

Mohammed Ali is immortalised for protesting Vietnam.

Jessie Owens immortalised for sticking it to Hitler.

The protests against Aphartheid South African Rugby.

Then again Rugby united a Nation when the South Africans won the Rugby world cup, the most meaningful victory arguably in sports history. United a Nation.. The only country to ever change government so drastically without a civil war.

These guys just want Kosovo independance and an end for civil strife.

Its easy for people to enjoy sports, and be apathetic to the attrocities of the world. But honstly sport is a great platform to be heard and bring meaning.

[–]sanufimipocriti 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Comparing those events to the ones in Kosovo is like having history lessons from CNN or FoxNews.

Don't do armchair history in regards to Kosovo it's not black and white.

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol.. foxnews.. is bullshit and anyone with half a brain knows it.

[–]Jarl Karl med KarlahårYmirwantshugs 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Fragile little snowflakes

[–]EuropeFriendOfOrder 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I see no problem with them using the 'double eagle' as a celebration - but they are playing for Switzerland and not Albania. If they identify with Albania and not Switzerland, then they should play for Albania instead.

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

This is rediculous. They identify with both. They are immigrants.

[–]ken_the_boxer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They wear one shirt. Make a choice and behave to that. If you can't or won't, don't represent one country.

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They are also proud of their heritage and the country they represent.

And news flash... they are citizens of both.

And no no choice is needed. Because we are free men. They are living the dream, whilst you cry on reddit.

[–]Nem Tudom EuropeanLeemour 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Football hooligans are the most political and rudest groups ever. I remember when there was a Hungary vs Romania match and there were also plenty of disgraceful acts on both sides.

I might be biased here, but I don't believe in civilized European football fans who also happen to be in the stadium. They are all as wild as animals.

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Rubbish. Firstly a World Cup is more expensive. And everyone wants to go, not just football ‘hooligans’. Many travel and make a holiday out of it too. Entire families/business executives. And many other people from all walks of life.

Crowds are much better at the World Cup in general. There is rarely the type of violence you see where they get season tickets for club teams.

And honestly, if the World Cup is in your host nation, almost everyone tries to get tickets to at least one game.

[–]Heuchlerdassammamia -1 points0 points  (5 children)

If FIFA is not punishing them, then every player can wear the flag he wants on their shoes... I thought politics are not allowed. If the Serbs would waer the flag of the Republic of Krajina while playing against Croatia I bet FIFA would kick them out. Its just hypocritical. FIFA just created a precedent like the IS created a precedent with Kosovo (Crimea, Abchasia and other regions were following)

[–]Kosovobxfn 10 points11 points  (3 children)

You gave examples of countries recognized by 1 or 2 countries and Kosovo that’s recognized by the majority of the world and is a FIFA member. But ok.

[–]Cer3eru2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Emblems on kit has more to do with sponsorship.

[–]MontenegroMarveluka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why is it considered provocative? If its meant to bate serbs,why take the bait?

It shows more about the person using that tactic and,in my view,disrespecting the country he plays for. It would have been far better if noone reacted to this. He signaled the eagle,the end.