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Saudi women are to be allowed to drive from midnight local time (21:00 GMT) tonight after a ban comes to an end

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Original Poster465 points · 22 days ago

Manal al-Sharif wrote down this haunting report about her experience as the woman who started the Women2Drive campaign in 2011 and repeatedly got harassed by Saudi authorities for her activism.

“Do you know that what you did is illegal?” the colonel asked. “Sir,” I replied, “I did not violate any traffic code. According to Section 32 of the Traffic Statute, there is no gender specification in the driver’s license application. In fact, there is nothing in the statute anywhere that says women can’t drive.”

He leaned back in his chair. “You can cite the statute?” “Yes. I’ve been studying the code for days, sir.” He sat still for a moment, silently assessing me. Finally he said, “Well, you need a Saudi license to drive here.” “Sir, true, but,” I said, without blinking, “I am allowed to use my valid foreign driver’s license for up to three months until I get a Saudi one.” I reached into my bag and handed him my completed driver’s license application. I could nearly hear the colonel think, Oh my God, who the hell is this woman?

Today it seems like the vast majority of the country is on her side:

In a poll of Saudi nationals conducted by Arab News/YouGov, 77 percent of Saudis said they agreed with the decision to allow women to drive. The results also showed that most Saudi women are eager and ready to start driving. The survey of more than 500 Saudis showed 82 percent of women and 71 percent of men supported the decision.

125 points · 22 days ago

Wow, nice loophole

Known as the 'airbud defense'

173 points · 22 days ago

those 18% of women who dont support the decision tho... like a slave wanting to stay at the plantation

164 points · 22 days ago

Women even protested against their own right to vote in many places in western countries.

There were plenty of women who welcomed the Islamic Revolution in Iran without realizing the consequences.

Mostly because it was associated with the draft and "bucket duty" (early fire departments) in the early 1900's.

59 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

That's a bit reductionist.

Prominent anti-suffragists like Helen Johnson and Grace Goodwin (just to name a couple) used many lines of argument against it. Ranging from the perceived impracticality of educating women politically after a lifetime of apolitical attitudes, American exceptionalism in the face of foreign adoption of women's suffrage, and even nativism (if we give women voting rights, then all these immigrant women will be voting too!)

But the main and obvious thrust was traditionalism and conservatism. They argued that female and male spheres were different, they should be kept separate, and any blending would ultimately harm both. Therefore, to accord women the right to vote would actually harmfully invade upon their own female space. In other words, it's not as though they argued that women cannot vote because they were inherently inferior per se, but more so that giving them the right to vote may actually make them less strong and cohesive as a gender block within their sphere.

So to say that anti-suffragists were anti-suffragists because they be opposed to female inclusion in the draft or bucket brigades is certainly technically true. But it would be like saying that a Libertarian was a libertarian because they didn't like paying for public roadways. There's obviously a lot of deeper nuance at play here.

14 points · 22 days ago

Wow, all of this sound exactly like what Saudis say nowadays to resist any change, I guess conservatives are bros across all cultures..

Y'all Qaeda and Al Qaeda have more in common than people may realize.

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3 points · 22 days ago

Hell Phyllis Schlafly was saying in the 80s they should take away women's right to vote. Some conservatives/reactionaries really believe their own nonsense.

Comment deleted22 days ago(1 child)

This is exactly why I've sat for prayer with my Catholic grandmother despite not believing any of it. Let them be them, love them for the good, try and understand the bad and love them for that as well, and move to better things outside of their narrowing sphere of influence.

There is an episode of Hate Thy Neighbor where an American women us going around and protesting against abortion and her belief that women shouldn't vote. If you haven't seen it it's a great docuseries.

4 points · 22 days ago

fucking why

Original Poster19 points · 22 days ago

Some people are fearful of radical change even if it gives them personally more freedom.

In 1895 the women of Massachusetts were asked by the state whether they wished the suffrage. Of the 575,000 voting women in the state, only 22,204 cared for it enough to deposit in a ballot box an affirmative answer to this question. That is, in round numbers, less than four per cent wished to vote; about ninety-six per cent were opposed to woman suffrage or indifferent to it.

Comment deleted22 days ago(10 children)
Original Poster36 points · 22 days ago

The 18% of women are more likely to be motivated by a general fear of change. I would assume they're mostly elderly ladies who are comfortable with the life they're living and see only risks in changing anything about what they consider the fabric of society. "It's always been this way. I didn't need X to live a fulfilling life and my daughter/granddaughter doesn't need X either"

9 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

The 18% of women are more likely to be motivated by a general fear of change. I would assume they're mostly elderly ladies

Only 3.15% of Saudi Arabians are aged over 65.

The 18% of women are more likely to be motivated by a general fear of change.

Women themselves are some of the biggest perpetrators of misogynist bullshit.

In Africa, women are involved in committing FGM. In the west, promiscuous women are shamed by both men and women.

I think that was the point of the comment, with a thorough description of why they fear the change.

This isn't just a Saudi thing, this is how society works in general. Its why building good societies are important.

Comment deleted22 days ago(0 children)

People like you hurt your own cause

8 points · 22 days ago

wtf are you talking about

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Hell, Many Muslim Women in india wanted their men to have the ability to divorce them just by saying "talak" three times.

Triple Talaq in India

Internalized misogyny happens everywhere unfortunately.

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A lot of people vote against their interests too.

Far more then that percentage of women were against women getting the vote, back in the day.

More like slaves with Stockholm syndrome or who are terrified of the beating they'll get if their husband even thinks for a second that she voted to better her position in society.

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Yeah interestingly enough it was never technically illegal for Saudi women to drive so she's completely correct here. It was just no local authority had the guts to give a woman a license unless they had formal instruction from Riyadh which they didn't have until now.

Lol what a badass

3 points · 22 days ago

A radio interview with her and an Amnesty campaign director reveals there are still ten activists arrested (half of them men). The BBC gets it wrong saying eight. Was eleven but one elderly woman was released on health grounds.

At least eight ten women's rights activists are being detained and could face trial in a counter-terrorism court and long prison sentences for their activism, human rights group Amnesty says.

Thank you for sharing this. It's both moving and terrifying.

what's worse is that this victory for civil right was stolen from them. MBS simply claimed that he is the champion and all his "supporters" happily crowned him as such.
oh well

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Comment deleted22 days ago(94 children)

Fun fact, women weren't allowed to vote in most countries until about 70 years ago. 50 years ago (give or take) whites and non-whites could be legally discriminated in the US. Public executions were legal in France until less than 40 years ago. Less than 50 years ago, still in France, women couldn't work unless their husband would agree on this.

It can seem that they are stuck far in the past, but actually "we" haven't had theoritecal and legal equality between men and women or between different ethnicities, or rights that we would consider obvious and an integral part of our identity until not so long ago.

But still, it's good to see that other countries are adopting, slowly yes but still, these values too.

93 points · 22 days ago

Try 28 years. In 1990 a canton in Switzerland was forced to accept the women's right to vote by decision of the Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland.

In Australia, women were given the right to vote in 1902. Aboriginals weren't given the same rights until 1962, but they didn't get full recognition until the 1967 referendum.

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The last recorded racist lynching on US soil was during the sixth season of SNL (the one Eddie Murphy was on, iirc)....

Woof, must've been a bad episode

I never understood how any od the US soldiers could come back to America after experiencing Nacizm and concentration camps, then go back home and be completely okay with segregation and lynching. I mean its exactly the same as you just fought against!

I think the vast majority of U.S. soldiers never saw a concentration camp. Iirc, the holocast wasn't quite public knowledge until well into the 1950s. Not a historian though, so corrections would be welcome.

I mean if you look at places like Iran in the 70s it was far similar to America than most people realize some places aren't catching up as they just took a step back. State endorsed religion does weird things.

Comment deleted22 days ago(0 children)

The closes thing we have to a standard set of values in this world is probably the set of human rights defined by the UN. Different cultures have such different values, it is hard to agree on what's acceptable.

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We’ve come a long way, but we still have more to go.

I don't know about their legality, but the last French public execution was in 1939. Maybe you were thinking of when they abolished the death penalty altogether in 1981, last one being carried out being in 1977.

Might have been legal, but if it never happens then it's basically non-existant.

When my father was born, death penalty was still allowed. When it was to be discarded, after more than a century of battle, about a quarter of our deputies voted to keep it. Nowadays, most of us agree that this kind of power should never be given again to our state, but there are still some who advocate death penality for some they'd judge unworthy to live.

Even if it is very rare. Even if it is theoretically impossible for you to be executed, that does not mean you should let your rulers have that kind of power.

But it was not really about that, it was more about how we tend to see ourselves as superior to other countries because of our "grand ideals", when most of them are fairly recent, took a lot of time to achieve, and have to be constantly defended.

8 points · 22 days ago

Another fun fact: the Eastern Front of WWII was a race war. Nazi Germany invaded Poland and then Russia to acquire "living space", i.e., to colonize lands that were already inhabited. The Slavic peoples were considered subhuman races earmarked for genocide and their cultures were the targets of methodical campaigns of destruction and eradication.

Historical fact: most American women were against women's suffrage. In other words the majority of women in America did not want the right to vote.

This was because voting is the ability to have a stake in the direction the country goes and you had to sign up for selective service in order to vote. In other words you could vote but also be willing to die defending that which you vote for. Women didn't want to be eligible for conscription or firefighter duty. Well they got the best of both, as women can vote and are not eligible for being drafted. Equality.

Not really. They need to scrap sharia laws

Don't kid yourself. Western European nations were stupid and religious as fuck in the 19th century.

They still are really.

Wanna be a President in the USA, well you better be a "Good Christian". Come the fuck on. Why not just be a "Good Person"

13 points · 22 days ago

That's the US; he said Western European. The mayor of London is a Muslim.

True. I skipped the European part and just took it as "West"

Even if you took it as "Western nations are still stupid and religious as fuck" your comment would still be wrong. The States is the only western country where a self-proclaimed atheist wouldn't be a viable candidate.

I mean living in the US and constantly being berated by right wing religious fanatics colors my view a bit. We have a vice president that thinks the Earth was created 4,000 years ago :/

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Oh yeah, they just love atheists in Mexico.

Not really anymore. Trump is president and he didn't run on being a "good Christian" and still won. Neither did Clinton

Yeah but how do you think his base would react to a Muslim candidate who otherwise is identical to a Christian one?

9 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

If trump revealed that he was a muslim, at this point do you really think they’d care? They would just start gaslighting with “what? We’ve never had a problem with muslims. What do you liberals have against muslims? Is it a problem for you? Biggots. Im proud that president trump is breaking the cycle of presidents only ever being christian. MAGA!”

That is true, but I was thinking of an ethnic Muslim who is brown. But otherwise the exact same policy wise as any other republican.

A lot of (ignorant?) Americans are islamophobic anyways, don't think a Muslim candidate would go far

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Bill & Hil made a show of going to church and Hilary has been a pretty regular churchgoer since at least her college years (Methodist, I think?)

There's a famous first year picture of Trump praying with a lot of TV Evangelists "laying hands" on him.

He doesn't care about the moral instruction of the Bible or know how many Corinthians there are, but he darn sure knows where his bread is buttered.

He also knows if he says the magic words "anti-abortion judge" he will be considered at least "Christian enough."

Trump still waved his bible around. It's sickening that this country still has a large swathe of evangelicals that can influence the election in any meaningful way.

Maybe in another generation or two when education and readily available information has decreased their numbers enough we will get an openly agnostic or atheist POTUS.

You can bet your ass that no amount of charisma or political savvy would be enough to overcome the "vote against" religious herd if that was attempted today.

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Not really, the US is currently probably the most religious western country. I don't think there are any majority religious countries left in western and northern Europe. I think there are a few in southern and eastern Europe, though.

I don’t think so anymore. The US had a Jewish candidate to be party leader for the Democrats. Canada has a major party leader (NDP) that is Sikh.

Not just a good Christian thing anymore.

I think the religious thing is to show you’re morally grounded though.

Yes, they are, but not as extreme.

A Jewish candidate came close to being the Democratic nominee and there was barely any mention of it during the primaries. It doesn't have much weight even in the US besides argument points that don't matter in practice (ie right wing religious people supporting Trump even though he is not a good Christian).

This is the thing. While western nations were more stupid and more religious in the 19th century, which is 1800 to 1899, that's still about a hundred years after Newton. Science was well underway by 1800 and we had the telagraph by 1850. I'm not saying you're entirely wrong but so many people try to make the argument for western inferiority in the face of so much evidence to the contrary. I understand the motives are good.

17 points · 22 days ago

Why do that, when you can be in advance on the 22th century.

Did you just say, “22th”

Must be Mike Tyson

Musth be Mike Tython


Or Chris Eubank

He's obviously still living in the 21st century

Would that be twenty secondth or twenty twoth?


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18 points · 22 days ago

On related news, other countries are regressing into 19th century due to a wave of populism: see you there, Saudi Arabia.

*20th, cars didnt exist widely before then

The funny thing is we're getting a play by play cover news about this and hyping it up. I think the marketing team mess up and haven't realize that women driving isn't new and they're hyping shit that's should have happened already.

1 point · 22 days ago

Funnily enough, Wahabiasm really came into its own in Saudi Arabia during the 1800s. It's only been around since the mid-1700s.

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It'll be a good day to be a car salesman. I'm curious what changes and preparations have been made to their infrastructure to handle the influx of new drivers.

More drivers but probably not a whole lot of new cars, just married women driving the family car now.

And a whole load of South Asian drivers made redundant.

They took 'er jerbs

No way. Many South Asian drivers are in Dubai where women can drive. Most rich Arabs have drivers anyways, even males.

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And a good time to be in the collision repair business

It could be entirely possible that there's gunna be an influx of very new drivers, chill with downvotes guys.

This is true but not in a sexist. One only needs to see how Saudis drive and then imagine how they will accommodate their other halves on the road to see what mayhem will ensue.

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1 point · 22 days ago

Yes you are right cars company they are giving excellent discount & offers for women to buy cars now.

For infrstructure Nothing will change .. as we have already have a hundred thousand of forign driver from south east Asia mainly. Work as family driver. Which expect to leave.

This happen during a economics changes so already 1 million of ex-pac. worker leave the Saudi Arabia.

zero, nil, naught

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Now release the activists that advocated for this!!!

Original Poster95 points · 22 days ago

First they ignore you
then they ridicule you
then they fight you
then you win
then they disappear you
they they claim your win as their own

I see Gandhi added a few new steps.

Original Poster27 points · 22 days ago

The quote is misattributed to Gandhi.

It can be traced back to Nicholas Klein, an American labor union advocate. He probably expanded on a similar quote that might have been from Schopenhauer and gave it a slightly different, less cynical ending.

Bless you.

This comment's format is so fucked on the mobile app, it just looks like you haven't used spaces between you and then but when you go reply it fixes it lol

Sometimes tapping a comment fixes the formatting.

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74 points · 22 days ago

A bunch of people who have little to no driving experience on the road for the first time? What could go wrong?

Good for Saudi Arabia for lifting this ban though!

A bunch of people who have little to no driving experience on the road for the first time? What could go wrong?

Watch this be used as evidence on why women shouldn't drive over there. I'm calling it now.

"The automobile death rate went up a ton! Therefore, women are inherently dangerous drivers, causing many more fatalities then men! No more driving!"

Saudi Authorities have been giving women driving lessons.

This is what I keep saying and I feel like I'm not being listened to. It's going to be very easy for them to make the argument, "look! We said they were worst drivers and look at statistically how many more wrecks they get in" coughduetousoppressingthemandnotlettingthemdriveforthelastfourhundredyears cough clears throat sorry got something stuck there

tbf, not all that many men driving automotolaters 400 years ago either!

Just a bunch of dudes twiddling their thumbs sitting around in unhitched carriages waiting for Rudolf Diesel to be born.

Right but the only people who won't straight through that argument are sexist assholes anyway.

True, but they're EVERYWHERE.

And, as we all know, there are no sexists in Saudi Arabia /s

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Lol I legit don’t know how they’re going to survive. The roads are basically a battle Royale

They've been learning in the months prior to this.

You ever been on the road around the time of year driving classes start up? Good god it's bad enough when it's just 1 years worth of unexperienced drivers are on the road, can you imagine half the population, never having driven before, suddenly being out on the road?

It's a problem for sure. My fear is that they're going to use it as an argument that women are worse drivers, since there an experience is obviously going to lead to an INITIAL increase of accidents.

Original Poster7 points · 22 days ago

Driving classes start around a certain time of year in the US? What's the reason for that?

Idk I guess just the school setup? It may just be that they don't have it in the summer and. They start up again when school does?

I just remember back when I was learning to drive they were like "hey driving classes are starting up again make sure you register"

Learning can only do so much. This isn’t the US where you can go outside and drive with right of way and yield signs that are followed. You need actual experience

They can't be any worse than Saudi men who are popping wheelies and drifting on highways.

I don’t know what you mean by worse. Those guys popping wheelies have a much higher survival chance than these fresh women jumping on the streets. I don’t think comparing those guys and women is fair. There are millions of women and a small amount of road hooligans

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I’m not dissing women, just saying that they are not going to have a fun time getting accustomed to the roads.

That won't change that there will be thousands of inexperienced drivers on the roads.

battle Royale with cheese

2 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Carmageddon, downtown Riyadh..

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Tens of thousands of young Saudi women have been living and studying abroad in the past decade, in places like the US, Canada, and other western countries. Many of them have learned to drive here. I taught many of them (English language), and some told me that they were going to get their licenses here, drive themselves around for the multi-year duration of their studies, and then be ready for when the driving ban ended in S.A.

One woman’s husband told me that he was so sick of having to chauffeur her around and thought it would be awesome for her to know how to drive.

I worked in an area that had a high percentage of Arab women drivers and while I applaud this and am glad women are able to have basic rights. PLEASE don't drive with a burka on. Simply put, YOU CAN'T SEE PROPERLY. Burkas severely limit your peripheral vision. It used to happen all the time in the area where I worked and it was literally dangerous on the road.

You mean like regular Saudi Arabia.

Been there, I know how people there drive

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For the record, this ban and many other restrictions against women are a Saudi thing and have no actual basis in Islam. So happy for this change, Saudi has ways to go but this was one of their dumbest rules.

10 points · 22 days ago

Snapchat is gonna be lit tonight.

Aww hell yea!! Gettin the popcorn ready, bring on those Youtube Crazy Driving: Saudi Arabia edition videos.

Lol dude saudi arabians are already known for the absolutely crazy driving

Yeah now imagine a 40 year old mum with 0 hours driving experience trying to learn on these roads.

Humming music*

Welcome to the Industrial Era

5 points · 22 days ago

I await first accident where a man hits a woman on purpose then blames her.

8 points · 22 days ago(0 children)

Expect vehicular accidents to raise exponentially tomorrow.

31 points · 22 days ago

Why is this being downvoted? If a bunch of drivers with little to no driving experience flood the roads this should be an expected outcome....

26 points · 22 days ago

If a bunch of drivers with little to no driving experience flood the roads this should be an expected outcome....

That's assuming that driving experience is a major factor in most accidents. I can't speak to SA, but I've studied the statistics from several major developed countries and I can tell you: it's not.

Huh, that is interesting and not what I'd expect. Can you show me these statistics?

18 points · 22 days ago

Can you show me these statistics?

Check out FARS. You can start with the fact that young men are 4x as likely to be in accident as young women. Age+Sex, Location, Drug Use and Time of Day are the major factors.

11 points · 22 days ago

That’s only with respect to fatalities though. It doesn’t cover the majority of accidents, that are minor, don’t involve injury or police, and are non-reportable.

Inexperienced drivers would definitely have or cause more minor accidents.

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You're being downvoted, but tomorrow front page will be "Saudi government attempts to use driving statistics to revoke women driving laws"

Go Saudi chicks!

Next step: women in Saudi Arabia who are gearheads, track day fiends, and eventually race car drivers.

2 points · 22 days ago

The Guinness Book of World Records should award Saudi Arabia the "largest number of new drivers in a country in a week" award...

Congrats to the women of Saudi Arabia. They made it happen.

So progressive

2 points · 22 days ago

I wonder if my cousin will be driving 🤔

She will. I just talked to her.

2 points · 22 days ago

Ahh . Tell her I said congrats.😁

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It will be interesting to see the results of a sudden addition of lots of new lady drivers. Will traffic improve? Stay the same? Get worse?

7 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Since women can't go anywhere unaccompanied still I imagine the only difference might be that the wife is driving when her and her man go out. She wouldn't be going out in the streets by herself now that we can drive.

EDIT: Can -> Can't

20 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Why do I keep reading this? Just where is this coming from? Women Can drive on their own. They don't need to be accompanied. Yet on every reddit post about Saudi women driving there's always a bunch of people claiming women can't drive alone. It's simply not true.

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Yeah, that's not true

This is false

Good point, a detail that might not occur to a westerner right away.

Woman can go places unaccompanied.

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Short term: It will be much worse. An influx of inexperienced drivers doesn't good for the road statistics.

Mid: A big influx of drivers and I doubt the roads where built with that influx in mind. Expect a lot more traffic jams and the like.

Long term: Assuming they update the infrastructure as needed there won't be much of an issue probably. More greenhouse gases is longterm I guess.

I don't think they'll need much more infrastructure. Instead of having to call a cab or have someone else to do the driving for them, they can now just drive themselves.

If anything, getting into your own car rather than calling a cab would reduce the number of cars in traffic, as the cab no longer needs to first drive to the woman before taking her where she wants to go.

In short term it won't probably increase or decrease that much at all. The increase would only come when it started being more common for women to own their owns cars which is something that will probably take some time.

Tbh, the only real issue is the short term one.

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Good for women in SA. Maybe next they will be allowed to interact freely with whom they choose and not need a male guardian's permission to make any real decisions in their life.

Fuck religion, and fundamentalists of any kind. You've held back humanity for long enough.

Fuck religion

Edgy. Sooo much edge.

0 points · 22 days ago · edited 22 days ago

Perhaps you can point me to the source / cause of the oppressive culture in fundamentalist countries so that I can know what, exactly, I can tell to fuck off if not religion.

Edit: Looks like a struck a nerve. Good. Fuck off if you can't handle reality without a magical book and sky father reassuring you along the way.

Conservatism of any kind is repressive. Whether traditionalist, monarchist, religious or what ever.

1 point · 22 days ago(0 children)

They have parking lots for women now.

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Have they been allowed to practice, go through a driving test and so forth in the weeks prior to today? If not I can sense a calamity on the way. Having so many first time drivers on the road at once ain’t good regardless of their Gender

One small step forwards in what is hopefully a series of steps. I'm so happy for them

So if women can drive who will be caught teaching and training them to drive?

keep off the sidewalks!

just joking

next day: rumours are that you could hear "bad girls" by M.I.A being played all night on repeat

They still behead people and export whabism

I'm surprised Donald Trump hasn't taken credit for this yet.

0 points · 22 days ago

And we are supposed to act like this is progress and clap and chear? Seriously what king of backward neanderthal ideology even thinks this is less than half normal.

For the last 40 or so years I have been alive I have NEVER thought any person should be disallowed from anything based on their gender or race so why the FUCK is this being treated as a thing.

Some people NEED to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century whether they like it or not.

Have you ever opened a history book? You could even skip all the chapters up to the last century to find tons of examples of this happening in the entire world. Relatively speaking, they're less than 1% behind the curve.

Comment deleted22 days ago(3 children)

Women can get licenses now, so many already have gotten theirs today I saw like alot of them driving

Comment deleted22 days ago(0 children)

Yeah they where allowed to take lessons and tests for the past few months many got their license a few weeks ago and then they adjusted the law to allow them to drive also many already have international licenses and they could just transfer it. Also the test is super easy

AHH yes but are they allowed to own a car... Lol. What a shit hole UAE is.

Yes, they were allowed to own it even before driving ban was lifted, a lot of men i knew had their cars on their mothers or wives' name as they earned more, especially guys whos mum bought them a car for chauffeuring.

You mean KSA. Ladies can and do drive here in UAE.

Atleast shitpost with proper info mate.uae and Saudi are two diff countries and uae didn’t have any kind of similar ban .

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Wow that is so progressive and forward reaching for you Saudi Arabia, land of enlightenment.

Oh Islam. Thousands of years later and you still oppress women.

Islamic countries used to be more civilized than a lot of the west. They've gone backwards, but it wasn't always this bad. Blame wahhabism.

It's astonishing to me that not one single reform has happened in that time period. The religion is still medieval in rhetoric, and practice

I find this comment funny when you got very recent movements like ISIS and Salafism, deobandis & qutbism etc which are actually reform movements.

Then you got the numerous sects of islam and orders like naqshbandi order andstuff.

Reddit is full of guys who cant even wiki islamic movements...

Too many right wing videos i guess, books are too hard to read rip

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-1 points · 22 days ago

Lots to go, but this is something. They still need permission from their husband, father, or son (yes, a son can be his mother’s “male guardian”’s fucked up) to drive...BUT this allows more women the possibility to hold jobs, gain some semblance of independence, and have a bigger voice in their country.

17 points · 22 days ago

Im Saudi and this is wrong they dont need their male guardian permission. the only thing that need a male guardian permission now is traveling on airplane.

4 points · 22 days ago

Sorry if I was mistaken, but they still need male guardians to do many things. Any links to more info?

Many things? Dont talk about something you dont know ! .. only thing is traveling outside the country..

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