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88.8k
Posted by8 months agoGilded7
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Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader.

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level 1
8.0k points · 8 months agoGilded1

Show me on the doll where he made you watch Seinfeld.

level 2

Points to eyes...

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level 2

And drink white wine!! When I was giving him nonverbal cues I wanted red!!!!!!! I'm a victim!!!!

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16.8k points · 8 months agoGilded1

I for one am shocked that sex with Aziz Ansari is awkward.

level 2

Allora

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level 3
2.5k points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

"Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?"

level 4
1.3k points · 8 months ago

I just pictured Tom Haverford saying that to Ann when I read that.

level 5

Dumps glitter into wine. Points and looks straight into camera. “Sparkle wine. Coming to a club near you”

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level 5

Stop it Aziz

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level 2
1.0k points · 8 months ago

I just realized we've all assumed that he was at least awkward on the date, but even that's based on the same account saying his actions amounted to sexual assault, which clearly they don't

level 3

Yeah even in that account he immediately switched to watching TV as soon as she said no. I’d like to give Aziz the benefit of the doubt here

level 4

But the wine was WHITE!

level 5

Because they were eating lobster rolls. I got kind of hung up on the story right there because I felt like she was trying to imply that he was being controlling by choosing the wine for her, but who drinks red wine with lobster?

level 6

I couldn't help but just imagine Craig from P&R shouting "What kind of MONSTER orders red wine with lobster rolls? IT WILL COMPLETELY OVERPOWER THEM!"

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level 1
3.3k points · 8 months agoGilded1

The next sexual encounter he has is going to take forever.

Do you consent to me touching your leg?

I consent to you touching my penis.

Do you consent to me fumbling my way through opening your bra?

Are you sure? Like, really really sure? No don't shake your head, say your answer.

level 2

Chappelle hit the nail on the head like 10 years ago https://vimeo.com/183089808

level 3

Ann Perkins 👉👉

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level 2

Read this in Aziz's voice in my head. It's spot on!

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level 2

It will take forever just getting through the wine list.

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level 1
2.6k points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

Woman meets celebrity that couldn't fight his way out of wet paper bag.

Woman gets the celebs attention by literally ignoring her current date.

Celeb gets her number.

Woman and celeb go on date.

Celeb takes her to expensive restaurant 2 blocks from his expensive apartment.

Woman complains celeb didn't ask what kind of wine she liked.

Celeb pays the check and they leave for his apartment before they could finish half the meal.

Woman returns to his apartment.

Celeb asks her if she wants to sit on his marble counter because that's normal? She does because celeb is 5'3" 120lbs and couldn't lift himself on the counter so we know she did this of her own power.

They make out and celeb does/says awkward shit.

She doesn't ask him to stop but doesn't enjoy it.

Celeb performs oral on woman.

She doesn't like this but doesn't ask him to stop.

More awkward, celeb then asks for oral. Woman gives it.

Woman doesn't like it but doesn't ask him to stop. She says she needs to use the bathroom.

After returning, woman voices discomfort. Celeb voices understanding. Instead of leaving she takes his invite to sit on/near his couch because.....he wanted to watch Oprah with woman?

She gives him oral again.

Etc.

Eventually leaves and texts him the next day about how it was horrible and how he needs to not be horrible.

Celeb reaponds privately with seemingly sincere regret at a misunderstanding and apology.

Woman has 3000 word revenge-porn story written about celeb because.......righteous anger?


What is described above is a groupie meeting a celebrity. I'm sorry but her actions scream "groupie". Further, her actions on the night are actions she regrets, not obvious clues to stop asking for the acts she still allows/performs anyway.

Was Aziz right in his behavior? No, I guess not but only in the sense that he treated her like a groupie. I guarantee he's had this exact encounter a few dozen times. She wanted a boyfriend, he thought she was a groupie. End of story.

No way he forced her into anything. Again, he's built like a 13yo boy. He didn't attack or molest her. She gave him head on multiple occasions that night.

She was disappointed not assaulted.

level 2

Yeah, it seems like she is younger than him and had some prince charming expectations and forget the celebrity might be a real person.

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level 1

i like how the website didnt reveal that girl's real name but Aziz got called a rapist in public 10/10 stuff

level 2

In some countries that publisher of the article could be sued for defamation.

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level 1

I am so glad I'm not the only one to think this wasn't rape. Bad sex doesn't mean rape. Everybody has a story of a hook-up they regret. Also white wine pairs well with oysters.

level 2

I know! I felt alienated seeing reactions to this at first. I'm afraid to voice my actual opinion anywhere besides here because I'd be ostracized.

I draw a line in the sand on this one, and the fact that it's so widely accepted as all out assault worries me for two reasons. First, as a man in the dating pool, it's scary. I'm a very receptive guy and I'm generally very good at picking up cues. But nobody's perfect, and one honest mistake or misreading can cost you your reputation or worse. But the scarier thing is that accusations like this one can backlash and cause a reaction in the opposite direction, undoing the important and hard won progress the movement has made so far. I feel like if I said that on Facebook, I'd be crucified. And that kind of environment is what ferments toxic reactions. I can't relate to a sociopathic monster like Harvey. He's a sick fuck. But yeah, I sure as shit could misread nonverbal cues.

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level 1
629 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

No one will probably see this, but I used to contribute to the magazine that made the original story. To be honest, there isn't really a strict editorial process compared to more reputable magazines. The magazine is a great platform to let young people voice their opinions, but I'm unsure about calling some of the publications fact. I think they can be questionable.

level 2

Which is another fucking problem: websites that skirt the line of "journalism" and "entertainment", so they can flip between one or the other as it suits them.

Actually, hmmm. I can see why they'd love this story, then.

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level 1
6.6k points · 8 months ago

America is losing its fucking mind

level 2

Oh, you noticed!

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level 2
3.3k points · 8 months agoGilded1 · edited 8 months ago

Addiction to outrage.

EDIT: Wow, I've never gotten gold before. I need to be honest that I'm sure I did hear or read someone else say something like that, so I think I can't take all the credit.

Also, to clarify my own stance and because I know that like anything, people use things to fuel their own viewpoint (daggon leftists ARE addicted to outrage, MAGA!), I am extremely left.

There are absolutely things people should be outraged at, like getting paid a fair wage, the dogshit "president", and massive wealth inequality. Because the powers that be would be really frightened of people standing up for those, I think to an extent, outrage at stupid shit is tolerated, promoted and maybe even facilitated.

Have a good day.

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[deleted]
36.7k points · 8 months agoGilded1

He didn't even ask what kind of wine I preferred.

Wish that was a joke.

level 2
1.9k points · 8 months ago

"What kind of wine do you like?"

"Rosé."

"Great. Here's a PBR."

level 3
865 points · 8 months ago

Pabst Bleu Rosé

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16.6k points · 8 months agoGilded1

They were going for oysters. You drink white with oysters.

level 3
6.6k points · 8 months ago

I love this. She made a point to make of his wine selection at not even offering her a red but ordering a white wine.

level 4

I wanted a milkshake with my oysters, but did he ask me? Noooo.

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level 4

I think the real signal he missed that she wasn't interested, was when he asked her for a blowjob, she agreed, and went on to suck his dick. I don't what language you speak, but he is clearly an idiot for thinking she was into him.

level 5

I thought you were joking until I read her story.

When Ansari told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. “I said something like, ‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’” She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her, and asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long. “It was really quick. Everything was pretty much touched and done within ten minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex.”

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level 5

Lmao, god damn this is so inane

level 6
437 points · 8 months ago

For real. And when she did verbally say she wasn’t feeling it anymore. He asked to put on cloths, chill and watch Seinfeld. Then followed up to chat and see how she was the next day.

It seems to me a better partner for her would be Professor X. I think he drinks red wine as well.

Then again we might get an article after that date. “ Mr. X didn’t even bother to get up and walk me to my door.”

level 7
211 points · 8 months ago

Red with oysters? He’s a mutant, not a monster.

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level 4
3.7k points · 8 months ago

I'm just waiting for this shit to make it into his show

level 5

Naa I feel like Aziz sympathizes a lot with that movement, and is probably thinking to himself right now that there's a flaw in his behavior that he needs to improve upon.

level 6
6.9k points · 8 months agoGilded1

He's... Aziz Ansorry?

level 7

He better be sorry after failing to provide light to that old guy in The Fifth Element and falling asleep on the job.

level 8

wait what?!

checks IMDB

well played you sneaky bastard

level 9

I didn't check.. was it legit?

level 10
478 points · 8 months ago

“Aziz...liiiight! Thank you Aziz.”

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level 7

Ah-Jeez AmSorry

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level 4

She made a point to make of his wine selection at not even offering her a red but ordering a white wine.

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the syntax of this sentence?

level 5
212 points · 8 months ago

She made it a point to complain that Aziz served white wine, when she really likes red (even though she didn't mention anything about wanting red to him at the time).

level 6
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.64 points · 8 months ago

And the fact that they were eating oysters, which white wine pairs with.

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level 4

I can't help but think of Christopher Walken as The Continental.

level 5

Champagnay?

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level 5

Aziz seems less murdery than Walken.

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level 4

Not even "ordering at a restaurant" - it was at his house. He had white wine at his house, and she's complaining he didn't offer her a choice.

level 5
124 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

Yeah, that detail is just so weird to include. It's not even, "I asked him for red, and he insisted I have white," which would at least maybe suggest he's controlling or trying to dose her or something (and I think this writer is grasping to try to insinuate as much as possible). It's just "he offered me some wine and it wasn't the kind I usually prefer." WTF? This is a detail that I don't get.

He asked me to go to bed, and his bed wasn't a Sleep Number mattress like I prefer.

He offered to watch TV and it was only 720p. I prefer 1080p.

He gave me a glass of water. It was still, not sparkling.

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level 3

Seriously. What kind of lunatic drinks red wine before oysters?

level 4

i drink whatever has the highest ABV available god help me i am bad at dates

level 5
480 points · 8 months ago

"I would like a bottle of your finest rubbing alcohol"

level 6
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level 2
1.4k points · 8 months ago

Nonconsensual white wine. What a time to be alive.

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437 points · 8 months ago

And he poured it for me like a chauvinistic pig!

level 4
166 points · 8 months ago

Then like some kind of Neanderthal he paid for it all, along with the rest of the date. Worst night of my life.

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level 2

What kind of MONSTER orders red with fish? I know they're messing with me and it's just a test, but have some decency!

level 3

They had the wine at his apartment prior to going to dinner, according to the exposé. It's still a stupid thing to complain about, though. He was hosting her and offered her white wine, she could've just said "No, thank you" if she didn't want it (as she could have done for the whole encounter, to be honest).

level 4

I know, it makes the woman sound incredibly immature and shallow.

This is a Parks and Recreation quote btw.

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level 4
211 points · 8 months ago

Yeah I mean, the audacity! What if he didn't have red wine in his apartment? This story stinks to high hell.

level 5

Yeah I mean, the audacity! What if he didn't have red wine in his apartment? This story stinks to high hell.

The fucked up thing is that the wine thing makes the whole story MORE believable to me. I think anyone with a right head of their shoulders would have a clear impression about the woman's personality.

level 6
300 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

Also a pretty good idea of the [babe.net] writer, too.

Option 1: it's a really good writer that threw those clues in to sabotage "Grace" and her story.

Option 2: it's a shitty writer that couldn't tell that line should be left out if you want to paint this woman as sympathetic.

I'm voting #2.

level 7

Or #3: her readership is full of people who eat that up as misogynistic behavior

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level 3

Soruce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNE7Qt9eiDQ

Aziz should know better.

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level 2
695 points · 8 months ago

Why in their right mind would they put that in there. As soon as I read that the story lost a lot of credibility. I’m not saying maybe he was a little creep or aggressive, but Christ man what a way to lose your audience.

level 3
334 points · 8 months ago

That line stuck out to me too. You're just reading along then...wait, what? The wine is also a problem?

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level 2
2.0k points · 8 months ago

It feels like she was baiting him for an article and #metoo fame.

level 3

No it feels like a 22 year old had an image in her head of how this date with a celebrity would go and got mad when he wasn't like his character on tv and then got more mad when she discovered the 34 year old famous comedian was interested in a one night stand and not in a 2nd and 3rd date with a fucking college girl.

level 4
521 points · 8 months ago

He texted her the next day, so he might have even been interested.

level 5

He was cool with not having sex and just sitting and watching Seinfeld too.

level 6

At that point he was guilty of being boring. #metoo

level 7

I'm not an expert but that seems like a generally decent response to your partner getting uncomfortable. "Okay let's just chill and watch TV."

level 8
46 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

But then she gave him two blowjobs...i'm struggling to find out what the girl wanted she is the epitome of lack of communication and giving off bad signals. I feel like she wanted him to have sex with her so she could call it rape...i just don't understand

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level 2

When I read the headline, I honestly gave her the benefit of the doubt. When I read that line, my interpretation of the situation completely changed. I don't want to dismiss her emotions, because I have no doubt that they are real - but I do question how much her emotions represented the reality of events.

level 3

That she would even consider the politics and power dynamics of offering a date a glass of wine says a whole lot about the ideology/mindset she goes through her life under the spell of.

level 4
182 points · 8 months ago

and how exhausting must that life be to pay attention to crap like this all the time.

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level 4

As soon as I read, "22 year old 'photographer' at the Emmy's with a vintage camera" I knew I was gonna have to read this one with a grain of salt.

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level 1
26.8k points · 8 months agoGilded1

I’m so glad that most people seem to realize there’s a huge difference between Aziz’s admittedly awkward, boorish foreplay and Harvey Weinstein. It’s dangerous to act like women have no agency. That’s the opposite of empowerment.

level 2

But... They talked it over the next day and he apologized then... Why the fuck is this getting dragged into the public?

level 3
1.9k points · 8 months ago

He wore that pin and she got upset

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304 points · 8 months ago

Clicks.

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level 2

To judge from social media reaction to Grace’s story, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over Grace — professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory floor supervisors who demanded sex from women workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

...

There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

So true

level 3
523 points · 8 months ago

Yeah, "sexual assault" is NOT the same thing as "sexual regret"

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level 3

Can we just take a moment to feel so goddamned sorry for Aziz. Him sucking at sex is now a major headline and topic of debate in a movement centered on sexual assault. I couldn't imagine anything more humiliating for an innocent guy to go through.

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level 2

Aziz’s admittedly awkward, boorish foreplay

My first thought in reading this was how boorish it would be if a man wrote a detailed article about his consensual sexual encounter with a woman.

I don't think it would be okay if a man did what she's done, and I think it was a bit of a violation off Aziz's privacy.

level 3

"3000 words of revenge porn" how it was described in The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550541/

level 4

“Apparently there is a whole country full of young women who don’t know how to call a cab, and who have spent a lot of time picking out pretty outfits for dates they hoped would be nights to remember. They’re angry and temporarily powerful, and last night they destroyed a man who didn’t deserve it.”

Damn, mic drop.

level 5

This is one of the scarier aspects. "Temporarily" is not a concept that these women are grasping. This is an important moment to redefine certain boundaries and the blowback is going to be massive. Giving the blowback any kind of early start by taking advantage of the space the #Metoo movement is creating could be devastating for Women's Rights and I don't really know how anyone could waste this moment like that and honestly still call themselves a feminist.

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level 3

I don't think it would be okay if a man did what she's done, and I think it was a bit of a violation off Aziz's privacy.

That's a good point, I never thought about that. She went into a lot of detail... way too much. I was actually embarrassed reading it. If a guy had written such explicit details about a consensual sexual encounter with a woman there would have been a huge backlash.

level 4

It's called "revenge porn".

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level 3
819 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

I think it was a bit of a violation off Aziz's privacy.

EX-FUCKING-ACTLY. WHY ARE PEOPLE EVEN TALKING ABOUT HOW HE IS IN BED? Leave the fucking guy alone, whether he's shit in bed or not*, that's none of your damn business, random people that have nothing to do with that.

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level 3

I just realized that I want nothing more than for Aziz Ansari to write a long and detailed article from his perspective about this.

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level 2
3.3k points · 8 months ago

It’s dangerous to act like women have no agency. That’s the opposite of empowerment.

THANK YOU

level 3
650 points · 8 months ago

English is not my first language; "have no agency", what does it mean? Im guessing its not the professional term of having an actual agency.

level 4

Think of agency as your ability to act and make choices to effect an outcome, if you "have no agency" you're powerless to change what's happening around or to you.

level 5
814 points · 8 months ago

Ah, thanks Roy

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1.9k points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

Aziz’s admittedly awkward, boorish foreplay

I think the correct word is 'allegedly', not 'admittedly'.

We only have this woman's version of events, and per the article, it's not that reliable. What to her may have felt like him being in a rush to get back to his apartment after paying the check may have been a perfectly normal progression between finishing a meal and returning to his place. The way in which the hooking-up escalated may have also been a perfectly normal way in which this stuff happens. No one hooks up by asking permission and getting confirmation at every step of the process

'May I kiss you now?'

'May I use my tongue when kissing you?'

'May I put my hands under the top layer of your clothes?'

'May I unbutton your shirt?'

You see if the other person is going along with it, do your best to read the situation, and you stop if they aren't or say they don't want to. That's exactly what Aziz seems to have done, even by the 'victim's own account - as soon as she said no, he stopped. And not only did he stop, he also didn't act like he was owed sex or angry that he was denied sex - he simply suggested they continue hanging out, but with their clothes on.

What exactly has this dude done to justify being called boorish or aggressive or anything else?

Edit: It's been brought to my attention that he continued making moves on her after she said no, like continuing to kiss her after watching Seinfeld etc. (I couldn't see that part of the article, and for some reason, I still can't. Is this a mobile issue?) I can see how that can constitute boorish behaviour. Still nowhere in the vicinity of sexual assault, though.

level 3
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level 1
14.4k points · 8 months ago

If a girl sucked my dick within minutes of entering my apartment I wouldn’t think it would be a stretch to think she would be down to bang at some point that night.

level 2

This.

"I didn't really want to, and he ignored my nonverbal cues, but I sucked his dick anyways, and let him go down on me."

Uhhhhhh, wat?

level 3
1.3k points · 8 months ago

They were also naked the entire time from a few minutes upon entering right up until they put on Seinfeld. She may have been putting out nonverbal cues that she didn’t want anything sexual, but being naked and staying naked could also be interpreted as a nonverbal cue.

level 4
962 points · 8 months ago · edited 5 months ago

deleted 0.3794 What is ^^^this?

level 5

My friend had a girl get naked in his bed with him, then while making out he goes to initiate sex and she freaked the fuck out. He told her to get the fuck out of his apartment, sensing a trap, and immediately told everyone what happened in case she pulled shit like this.

The Babe article undermines what genuine assault victims are going through and muddies the waters of this societal conversation. This article could have kept Aziz anonymous and would have been a solid primer for men on how to be more respectful of boundaries, without potentially destroying a man's career and life.

level 6

Many years ago, I went on a date and we went back to her house, we were making out on the couch and I have never had someone grind on me so hard in my entire life, even still to this day, I went to put my hand on her breast and she lost her mind like I was some monster and that all I was looking for was sex or whatever.

I think she had an orgasm or was at least trying to get there, yet I was the bad guy.

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level 3
924 points · 8 months ago

Then after being apprehensive and giving off "non-verbal cues" to show she wanted to slow down, she thought it would be a good idea to give him another BJ.

level 4
158 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

Okay, I knew about the non verbal cues bit and thought 'this is obviously where the ambiguity lies', but she sucked him off again after? Fuckin hell..

EDIT: This isn't to say that he should then have just tried to fuck her, it's more back to the original point that no real cues were given that she wanted to stop and could have easily said 'no' to penetrative sex while still being okay to give/receive oral. Being pissed off that he wanted more and then trying to shame him publicly for this is the issue here.

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level 3

What's even more scary is, what if this anonymous woman has decided to leave that part out the story. He would have no ability to say"well actually she gave me head”, and that HUGE piece of context would just be gone.

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level 2
2.2k points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

What a ludicrous assumption /s

edit: added an /s because i ludicrously assumed reddit could read sarcasm

level 3
730 points · 8 months ago

I'm sorry I couldn't read your mind. Thank you for the /s cue /s

level 4

Hey Aziz, I didn't know you had a reddit!

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level 1

A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

Fuck, I am happy to not be in the dating pool.

level 2
4.3k points · 8 months ago

Yeah that is just ridiculous. I'd like to know what their answers would be if the roles were reversed. I highly doubt these women would consider themselves harassers if they asked a guy for a drink or complimented his looks. I'm tired of this double standard where the women are always the victims.

level 3

Yeah, I had a female coworker compliment my ass the other day. I'm married shes got a BF. We both laughed but then I got sad when I remembered if a guy were to do that he'd be fired on the spot and people would talk about it for months.

level 4

I half-expected a last line in your comment saying, 'So I got her fired.'

level 5
2.2k points · 8 months ago

So I kicked her in the pussy!!!

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162 points · 8 months ago

If he tried to report her to HR he would likely be laughed out of the office.

In an actual serious example I was out to dinner w/ some execs for a previous company I used to work for. A joke came up about a GUY trying to file a harassment complaint against some woman in the company. Apparently they didn't want to take it seriously and how dumb it was. They had several managers apparently talk him out of it.

level 6
57 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

I feel like it's hard to complain about unwanted flirting from women without sounding like you're bragging. We get this idea nailed into our heads that being desired by as many women as possible is an ideal, so being desired by women is never bad and anyone complaining about it is just humblebragging. So how gross unwanted advances are gets lost in you looking weak or like you're bragging. It's ridiculous.

Plus women are taught that men always want sex, so I think when they are willing to have sex and a man doesn't want to have sex with them, they conclude it's because they are undesirable. And I think some men sense this and decide to let unwanted advances slide because they'd rather be uncomfortable for a few seconds than make a woman feel undesirable. I also think there is an ego boost they get out of it because women making the advances happens so rarely that it means you must be desirable for it to happen to you.

I've had situations that could be considered sexual harassment if the genders were reversed, but I think the fact that I'm male and most women wouldn't be able to physically overpower me makes the experience of inappropriate touching a great deal less uncomfortable for me than it would for a woman being inappropriately touched by a man. For example, I've had women who just met me grab my wrist, arm, bicep, or shoulder and hold onto it while talking to me, or brush my arm or shoulder while making eye contact with me and my reaction was annoyed at worst because I didn't feel physically threatened. Imagine that happening to a woman.

Not saying any of this justifies the double standard, but there's a reason for it. I think where it gets messed up is when we don't acknowledge that a woman's desires can be every bit as selfish and predatory as a man's and brush off men being uncomfortable with unwanted sexual advances the same way sexist assholes brush off women being uncomfortable with the same thing.

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level 1
15.7k points · 8 months agoGilded1

It's nice to see a lot of people drawing a line on this, while this whole movement is mostly good it's being taken out of hand in some cases and it's good to see that people are being supported and those making outlandish and unfair claims are being given a rightfully skeptical eye.

level 2

I think it's important to remember that whenever there's a movement, there are people who will try to take advantage of that movement, often unconsciously. If you live in a liberal community, you'll almost inevitably meet what my friend calls "liberal baptists". These are people who distort liberal principles to get their self-righteousness high, putting others down for being inadequately liberal (in their opinion), in the same way that many in the religious right will use the principles of Christianity to frame themselves as morally superior.

level 3

I got excited because I saw "liberal baptist" and I was like 'hey that's me!' But then I read your description... :/

Edit- there's dozens of us

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level 2
6.9k points · 8 months ago

A few days ago I got called an aspiring rapist for saying I wanted more information before I started witch hunting.

level 3

I've been called an alt-righter for being skeptical. It's whatever I guess.

level 4

I got called a rape apologist for saying that allegations in a civil lawsuit weren't proven fact and that people should wait for the court's decision.

The case was thrown out 6 months later.

level 5
375 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

I think it's funny that in certain online communities, some of which were once really cool and welcoming, the whole "I would rather a guilty person go free than an innocent person jailed" is like a meme.

Like they'll pre-emptively joke about it an an attempt to take away the argument's power, because deep-down, they actually believe these people should be punished before they're proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Okay, it's more sad than funny. Like, sexual violence is an enormous, horrible problem that affects most women in one way or another. I get it, it really, really sucks if it just comes to he-said she-said and there's no physical evidence. But that's just the circumstance. Sometimes things really fucking suck. But at the same time, we're not going to just assume that every accusation is true and lock people up.

Innocent until proven guilty is (and should be) the most sacrosanct law in our legal system, and it boggles my mind that anyone feels differently. The Innocence Project is still exonerating tons of people (mostly black men) through DNA evidence.

Side note, go find that person and make them apologize to you.

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level 3

I was called a pedophile because I tapped on a young girl's shoulder to get her to be quiet during a theater performance. True story.

level 4

I was once called a pedophile for saving a 3 yr old from being run over on an intersection. She had got lost from her mum in the shopping center and wandered out into the street. I ran a 100 yard dash to scoop her up. The coffee shop full of older ladies watched this child and did nothing until I picked her up. Then it was all gloves off calling for security and police that I had tried to steal her.

I was with my mum getting dinner groceries...

level 5

It's an easy out for her, she can accuse you of being a pedophile to distract from her failure of keeping track of her kid.

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level 4
1.4k points · 8 months ago

Maybe next time don't tap her shoulder with your wang...

level 5

Oh, so simple flirting is illegal now?! What happened to romance?

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level 1
21.6k points · 8 months agoGilded2 · edited 8 months ago

I gave him obvious non-verbal cues

Like sucking his dick?

EDIT: Jesus Christ this blew up. Thanks for the gold, guys. Just for clarification on my part, if you don't think the girl is in to it you should back off. Its only fun if both people are enjoying it.

level 2
3.3k points · 8 months ago

Reminds me of Casually Explained. "Lets say she's sucking your dick. Does she like you?
Well, lets not misread her non-verbal cues. She could have an itch in her throat. Help her out, but then leave and look for a better opportunity."

level 3
799 points · 8 months ago

https://youtu.be/xa-4IAR_9Yw

link for those who haven’t seen it

level 4
[deleted]
265 points · 8 months ago

TIL Canadian girls are really polite

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level 4

I can't even tell if my wife is into me.

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level 2

That is an obvious non-verbal cue. Just not the one she wanted to send

level 3
3.2k points · 8 months ago

God, this entire situation would be hilariously ridiculous if it couldn't absolutely ruin someone's life.

level 4
[deleted]
1.2k points · 8 months ago

He's good. The majority of people are on his side now. I was worried about the future of Master of None for a while there.

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level 4

A really scary aspect is that her own statements about this are the major thing that show the light on what really went down. If she hadn't given an interview to some website....

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level 3
622 points · 8 months ago

The last ever dolphin message was misinterpreted as a surprisingly sophisticated attempt to do a double-backward somersault through a hoop while whistling the "Star Spangled Banner," but was, in fact, a message. The message was "so long, and thanks for all the fish."

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level 3
782 points · 8 months ago

The article from her perspective only seems to count the non-verbal cues that matched her actual feelings, while skimming over the non-verbal cues that contradicted her actual feelings. It's rather disturbing to read actually, when I try to imagine how her actions collectively would come across without her internal narrative behind them.

level 4

It's very disturbing. She never mentioned that he was forcing her to do anything. She was cool making out naked, she was cool letting him go down on her, she willingly gave him a bj twice and in the end she's like "Well, in my mind I wasn't really cool with it, so this is sexual assault."

Seriously, what the fuck? If this wasn't relating to a celebrity and can easily be interpreted as attention whoring, this would sound like a case of mental illness. It's literally delusional.

level 4

Judge my thoughts, not my actions. Google should hire me because I like to imagine coding really cool things, who cares if I've actually done anything?

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level 2

Frankly, if I went on a date and sucked his dick not once, but twice, I'd be offended if he didn't try to have sex with me.

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level 2

Twice

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level 2

she didnt lick his balls! that a clear verbal cue that she was uncomfortable

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level 2

And the bastard got horny... how dare he? Everyone knows you’re supposed to respond with a gentle shoulder rub.

level 3

Awkwardness and/or regret are not rape.

My daughter was drugged by two over thirty year olds and sexually assaulted. We're working with a detective but the DA doesn't want the case because "she doesn't look like a minor".

And this bitch didn't get to pick her wine? And sucked his dick twice? So that's newsworthy?

level 4

The DA said she doesn't look like a minor? Is that guy/woman kidding? It's STATUTORY if she's under 18. Meaning you only have to prove it happened, even if she wasn't drugged. What a shitty DA. I suggest you give them a ton of shit.

level 5

The detective is working really hard on it to make a good case. She waited too long to tell anyone for there to be physical/hard evidence. Apparently a DA can choose not to prosecute if they don't think they'll win. I guess I didn't really understand that before now. Victims/Witness Services and the SART teams are awesome.

level 6

Best of luck getting the evidence you need. As a law student, I'm sorry you're having a rough experience with people I associate myself with who are supposed to care and be on your side through this. It's sad that these prosecutors get so jaded.

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level 4
331 points · 8 months ago

I’m so sorry that happened to your daughter.

level 5

Thank you. I should add that once we convinced her it wasn't her fault and got her into therapy it got easier. Shes doing really well considering. There are a lot of support services available without a conviction.

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level 1
4.7k points · 8 months ago

It annoys me that some women are using the whole movement as a stunt. It hurts the credibility of real victims

level 2

What pisses me off is the "news" outlet Babe who broke the story is now bragging about it. It's just a way for them to promote their garbage stories. It's disgusting. Babe and 'Grace' have slapped every victim of sexual assault and rape in the face, not to mention dragging Aziz down when he even apologized to her after she brought it up after the fact.

level 3

FFS, the way Babe used this story it basically suggests that men are not allowed to make social mistakes of any kind. You don't think I've stuck my foot in my mouth when it comes to guys I've dated or been interested in? Flirted too much or given attention where I read it wrong? Ansari sounds like he just didn't get on the same page with her conversationally but tbh he just sounds super awkward and she didn't indicate otherwise. When she did, he backed up! We can't take down the entire goddamn gender when there are real encounters that need to be addressed and sorted. I agree, no story is to small or big, but for heaven's sake use SOME rationality.

level 4

She sat down on his couch with him while they were both naked.... And she thought he would give her a back rub? That's it? She is naive and milking the situation due to his celebrity status. How convenient it is that she came forward only after he won a Grammy.

I can admit that I have had sexual encounters with men that I have afterwards regretted or wished I had acted differently, but that doesn't mean I was assaulted.

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level 1
1.1k points · 8 months ago

oh no! Not a bad date, those never happen!

level 2

Now read it in Aziz's voice.

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level 1
24.5k points · 8 months agoGilded1 · edited 8 months ago

I do like that we are at the point where a horny guy and a timid girl having a shitty but consensual sexual experience is considered shocking news. In the age of outing serial rapists, it's almost insulting that this is considered newsworthy

'we were sitting naked on his couch and I thought he would rub my back but instead he pointed at his dick and I started sucking it even though I kinda didn't want to' Give me a fucking break. Calling this anything close to assault infantilizes grown women as if they can't make choices. It is the opposite of feminist

EDIT: that's not a quote from the article, it's paraphrasing her account of the event

level 2

Assuming that his media personality is more or less the same as his real personality, how did she get through an entire date with him thinking a back rub would be more likely to be his move than pointing at his junk with his eyebrows arched? "Smooth" is not exactly his thing.

level 3
2.5k points · 8 months ago

Oh man i can visualize that. Damn aziz...

level 4

I just burst out laughing at the thought tbh.

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level 3
268 points · 8 months ago

"You know why I thought we were gonna have sex while sitting on the couch naked? because NOBODY DOESN'T HAVE SEX WHILE SITTING ON A COUCH NAKED."

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level 3

On top of that, the dude is like 5’5 and 130lbs. He’s not intimidating and this girls story honestly sounds like buyers remorse. I was pissed when I saw the twitter reaction this morning but the overall reddit response definitely restored a lot of my faith in the direction of the movement.

level 4
1.2k points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

Yeah, it kinda sounds like she was expecting to be swept off her feet by a suave, charming celebrity who would wine and dine her, followed by a gentle yet passionate candlelit night of lovemaking which would be the start of a long and meaningful relationship.

Instead she got Aziz Ansari and an awkward hookup. Life's a bitch sometimes, doesn't mean you have to try to ruin someone's life over it.

level 5

It also sounds like she needs to learn to pipe up and say what she wants/needs. If a back rub is what you desire to get yourself in the mood, fuckin' tell a guy. Expecting a guy to know what you want by either being too vague or too subtle gets you nowhere.

level 6

It sounds like she has lots of problems with communication, from the back rub, to whining about the wine.

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level 5
Original Poster40 points · 8 months ago

Eventually, overcome by her emotions at the way the night was going, she told him, “You guys are all the fucking same,” and left crying. I thought it was the most significant line in the story: This has happened to her many times before. What led her to believe that this time would be different?

Your idea about her expecting to get swept off her feet by a charming celebrity may be part of it, but this bit in the original article strongly suggests that this was far from the first time she's wound up regretting a hookup in large part because of her own inability to properly communicate her desires and boundaries.

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level 4

I was profoundly shocked to hear an allegation against Aziz. I just didn't see it coming. Then started reading through the article and realized it was a low, bullshit form of click-bait. It sounds like an awkward and embarrassing sexual encounter, definitely not something illegal or even morally wrong.

I hope this bitch gets sued.

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level 4

Smooth don't sneeze.

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level 2
1.0k points · 8 months ago

Your second paragraph hit the nail on the head. I was having trouble putting into words why this whole thing was bothering me so much, but infantilizes grown women is exactly right

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level 2

"I felt awkward about what I chose to do, so the next day I tried to ruin his entire career"

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level 2

I had an ex invite herself over to my place, climb on top of me while I was just nonchalantly laying in my bed with no hinting at anything more whatsoever. After we actually started doing stuff, we stopped once she wanted to. She left jolly while I was very confused as to what just happened.

Weeks later she accused me of rape. It broke me. There was nothing about it that ever crossed my mind as being against her consent. She told, me that she realized in the car and she felt like she was raped.

To this day I don't get it. I hate that to tell women to take accusations more seriously is often interpreted as telling women to be less vocal. Can't women understand the real gravity of such an accusation and not be discouraged from being forward about when incidents really happen?

level 3

I once had consensual sex with a girl where I asked if she was sure she wanted too

she said yes

she later messaged me saying she was not ready and cried on the way home

it felt fucking horrible to hear that

level 4

my first girlfriend said yes, I asked her if I was hurting her or something because she didn't seem very into it, she said no, and then she cheated on me and said I raped her because she was "scared to say no." At no point had I ever even raised a hand to her, and being an awkward little virgin, I was doing my best to make sure she was down for everything because I am terrible at reading people.
Like, what the fuck else am I supposed to do lady? You're 17 years old, it's not my fault you can't express yourself when I ask you repeatedly if you're okay with this.

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level 2

When I was online dating this was basically the encounter I had every other weekend. Sometimes it goes great and other times it would just be an awkward mess. These things happen when your trying to have casual sex with someone you just met. It's part of the deal.

level 3

Plus it sounds like he wanted casual sex and she wanted some romantic interaction which... maybe exists somewhere?

level 4

The hilarious part to me is that she met him when she was on a date with another man.

That doesn't scream 'woman I want to lock up onto a relationship' to me. I'd pretty much assume she was looking for casual.

level 5

You know the other guy is out there somewhere thinking "thank christ that bullet dodged me"

level 6
69 points · 8 months ago

Dude owes Aziz a beer.

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level 1

I believe that most men and women can look back at their own personal history and remember times that they have behaved ungracefully during a sexual encounter. Sometimes beyond ungracefully and into the shameful category (alcohol seems to be an agent for that). Happy to see that this incident is being filed into the "ungraceful" folder in the public's opinion. Seems like open communication from both parties can help to prevent these types of situations. This is a nice check for the #metoo movement so it can continue to make strides against sexual misconduct while not turning into a full-on moral panic.

level 2
86 points · 8 months ago · edited 8 months ago

I think the biggest social disconnect in these cases is the lack of acknowledgment that many women still want and expect men to be aggressive / dominant during casual sexual situations....and many modern men don’t know how to navigate the dominant role while adhering to the new often blurry standards for sexual consent.

The majority of women I’ve spoke to about the subject have told me what a turn off it is for a guy to not take control in casual sexual situations. But they expect a certain degree of respect which they don’t necessarily communicate to their male partners.

And I think the dynamic of casual sex has changed quite a lot with the advent of increased technology along with female sexual liberation.

Both men and women are very confused right now with balancing the freedom of sexuality and an appropriate level of respect/“morals”.

You have women who are told they should be ever fearful/vigilant of hyper aggressive men...who are also highly attracted to masculine aggression and dominance, and enjoy taking a sexually submissive role.

You have a society that glorifies hookup culture through dating apps... while women are taught every strange man is a potential rapist lest they’ve been taught not to rape.

You have men who are told to be fully respectful of consent....who have never been taught any strict standard what consent actually entails beyond “no means no”.

And you have women who are told that anything other than enthusiastic consent is non consensual....but aren’t taught the onus is on them to give or retract that consent, or how to do it.

And you have those same women who seem to be struggling between playing the submissive role, and understanding men are not trained mind readers...while taught if they speak up for themselves in uncomfortable situations they could be in physical danger.

I believe this is the first time in history where female sexuality has grown beyond a male objectification. It’s going to take some time for society to figure out the new standards of morality that entails.

In my opinion it’s necessary for the feminism movement to move past the “be fearful of male predation” and “you’re a victim if you feel like you’re a victim” mentality to “learn how to take responsibility for pursuing your sexual freedom within your comfort levels and expressing them verbally”. They’ve become so caught up with the concept of avoiding victim blaming and telling women how discomfort = rape ...they’ve forgotten to empower women to learn how to openly, and verbally communicate with sexual partners so that boundaries can be established. They’ve forgotten to teach women where their own responsibilities lay in a sexual encounter to express consent.

And at some point a social consensus needs to be reached on what is and is not appropriate consent, and the means by which it can be withdrawn.

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level 1

Compare that with Eliza Dushku's story at age 12 of an adult man getting naked, pinning her down and grinding on her and then threatening her if she told, and then breaking her ribs in an 'accident' in stunt rigging after she did tell. One's a credible allegation of sexual molestation and abuse and one's a I dunno a regret? Yet they both put #metoo so the press will treat them the same and clickbaiters will string people along to them.

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level 1

It must be nice to have lead such a charmed life that bad consensual sex with a minor celebrity is the worst thing that has ever happened to you.

level 2
447 points · 8 months ago

I believe Chappelle calls that a "brittle spirit"

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level 2

I’d beg to differ. Aziz is a pretty big celebrity.

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