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Britain First fan who drove van at London restaurant owner walks free | UK news

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Why the fuck would you drop attempted murder charges?

Evidently he was heavily intoxicated; attempted murder is a specific intent offence, so the Crown may have determined that he was so intoxicated that there was no reasonable prospect of conviction on that charge.

"Heavily intoxicated".

He told a police officer while in his van: “I’m going to kill a Muslim. I’m doing it for Britain. This is how I’m going to help the country. You people cannot do anything.”

He doesn't sound that intoxicated and I have no idea how you couldn't prove intent with a statement like that on the record.

When armed officers arrested Zakrocki, they found a Nazi coin in his pocket and a number of flyers for the far-right group Britain First and newspapers at his home in Harrow.

Barry said Zakrocki had been fixated by Muslims and had made donations to Britain First in the past.

This whole fucking thing stinks.

126 points · 6 months ago

What, you never got so drunk you turned into a nazi?

See should have been drinking a more patriotic English brew.

you need polish vodka for that

What, you never got so drunk you turned into a nazi?

Jew Wot?

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He doesn't sound that intoxicated and I have no idea how you couldn't prove intent with a statement like that on the record.

yeah you can really tell that he wasn't slurring his words at all by the way it was written.

This whole fucking thing stinks.

Do you think the UK government is sticking up for britain first Polish hooligans?

42 points · 6 months ago

britain first Polish hooligans

As a Polish person - fuck them. They weren't wanted here and I assume they aren't wanted there either.

Well, a female politician was assassinated by a crazed white nationalist but nobody actually called it that even though that's exactly what it was. Got acknowledged but hardly caused the seismic wave of awareness some hoped it would in exposing how uneducated and ruthless some of these xenophobes are to the degree they'll attack innocent women trying to represent their constituencies, murder them in broad daylight and be unrepentant about depriving a family of a wife and mother, and that person of their life.

The UK government doesn't stick up for them as much as acknowledge them and pretend it's a manageable problem and they're conscious of the danger, but they don't actually fucking do anything but offer their sympathies to the victims of these situations rather than actually fucking do anything to rectify or solve the problems going forward to prevent them from occuring again. Tone deaf plutocrats who will sell the country down the river and then blame the public for it.

They already jail people for racist tweets, I'm not sure what else you want them to do.

yes.

-10 points · 6 months ago(More than 15 children)

clearly not

why did he get a light sentence?

I haven't got a clue, I haven't read all of the article and I'm not a lawyer - but its got nothing to do with Brexit.

I am sure it is a coincidence. Why wouldnt it be? A man spouts off official government policy commits multiple crimes and gets a reduced sentence grossly inappropriate for the crimes. I am sure there is literally no connection whatsoever between the two.

On an unrelated matter I have a bridge in NY I would like to sell you.

Its one hell of a conclusion you've jumped to.

Hes also got brown hair and I'm sure its got nothing to do with the fact that the common hair colour in the UK is brown.

I would say correlation =/= causation, but theres not even a correlation here. You've just noted two entirely exclusive facts or incidents and assumed they're related. I don't even get the motive behind a case like this being dropped because of brexit. Who is risking their career by bending the law for some random bloke who had the same views as 52% of the 37% of the Uk population that voted. This isn't the cold war.

Wait.. what government policy is he even spouting?

How does the brexit means that the government is sticking up for Britain first?

Is it not one of the main ideals of Britain first Euroscepticism? They pushed for the UKIP.

Do you realise that there was a referendum and the Leave won? It's not like the government decided "hey, we like those Britain first chaps, let's get out of the EU to make them a favour"

It was non-binding. There was no reason for the government to go forth with the plans so loved by the far-right assholes. Jo Cox was murdered by those cunts during the campaign. Fuck the Tories.

Super constructive back and forth here guys

Do you realise that there was a referendum and the Leave won

Yes?

It's not like the government decided "hey, we like those Britain first chaps, let's get out of the EU to make them a favour"

No its more like the government there is seeing which way the wind is blowing and taking action accordingly.

I dont know what you want from me honestly. Do you think this punishment matches the crime? No? Ok, so why did it happen? Oh wait, turns out the guy who committed the crime happens to hold view's that are aligned with current UK policy. I am sure that is just a coincidence.

5 points · 6 months ago

Britain first is a hate group founded by members of the British national Party and the national front two extreme far right groups. One of their members murdered the politician Jo Cox while shouting "Britain first" and this is the second case of a follower attempting to murder Muslims.

Their views are vile, racist and inflammatory and the British government is in no way is enacting policies in favour of them, with or without brexit.

I dont know what you want from me honestly.

An explanation on how the government doing what the people decided they wanted is sticking up for Britain first-

Intoxicated with stupidity.

And hatred.

I love how he pretty much said verbatim "I am an islamophobe and I am going to commit a hate crime" and got off with it.

“I’m going to kill a Muslim. I’m doing it for Britain. This is how I’m going to help the country. You people cannot do anything.”

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that statement directly, like 1:1, fit with the definition of terrorism?

He doesn't sound that intoxicated

Those are written words, not an audio recording. You have no idea how he sounded; whether this is a quote or a paraphrase that the arresting officers could make out in his slurs.

That being said, the chance that the excuse "I was drunk when I decided to try murdering someone" could successfully defend the offence is a travesty of justice.

So here in the US, in pretty much every state, voluntary intoxication is not a defense for a crime.

I guess its a defense to premeditated murder, but that just means you would drop it to second or third degree murder or something

So here in the US, in pretty much every state, voluntary intoxication is not a defense for a crime.

That's a significant overstatement. Many states have enacted statutes which make voluntary intoxication unavailable as a defence even to specific intent crimes, but some have not done so.

Does that mean involuntary intoxication is a legal defense for a crime?

I'm no legal expert but if you could somehow prove you were drugged involuntarily, you could make a case for that

NAL, just from a family of lawyers and I ask a lot of questions and hear my parents talk about cases when we all go drinking together. And I only know Virginia, but if someone spikes your drink with PCP or something and you end up committing a crime, it is a defense.

Note that defense does not necessarily mean that you get off 100 percent, it means that the judge and jury can hear it as a defense and the judge can direct the jury to think of it as a reasonable defense. I'd say 90 percent likely chance of getting a not guilty verdict.

What would probably happen if someone's drink got spiked with PCP and they attacked someone is that the prosecutor would either decline to prosecute or charge them with some relatively minor crime.

Good to know that if I ever plan to murder someone in UK, to get drunk first.

the Crown may have determined that he was so intoxicated that there was no reasonable prospect of conviction on that charge.

Then what's stopping every murderer from taking a few shots before firing a few shots?

Then what's stopping every murderer from taking a few shots before firing a few shots?

The lack of guns in the UK?

-16 points · 6 months ago(12 children)
18 points · 6 months ago

I wish luck to whoever tries to go on a stabbing rampage with a machete while heavily intoxicated.

all just as effective in many of the known cases.

Mhm. That's why wars are still waged using melee weapons. After all, we know that after the invention of crossbows, they were still too shit to be used during warfare.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)

One dude with a knife injuring or killing 150 people? Stabbing people is exhausting and he stabbed 150?

I’m Sorry but was he fucking Lu Bu?

150... with a knife, fuck imprisoning him send him to the front lines.

[deleted]
1 point · 6 months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks

However, the van attack in Nice, France resulted in 86 dead and 450 injured. It would appear that vans are the deadliest obtainable weapon.

?

2 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

Nice had one guy in a van. Las Vegas had one guy with a gun. Kunming was one man with a knife.

The Paris attack was 9 men with guns and suicide vests. So that's 15 victims per attacker. The guy with a knife was more effective than that.

130 victims dead, 413 injured according to the link. So not quite as many total casualties as Vegas, but definitely more dead.

However, that was a coordinated attack by multiple people, as opposed to one van.

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Aaaah yes that's why the standard issue weapon for a soldier is a carving knife and a Ford Transit, and not a gun. Just as effective.

all just as effective

U wot?

he is clearly NRA.

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just as effective

30,000 less murders per year than america

Hmmm.....

It's probably pretty hard, even if drunk, to claim you didn't intend to shoot those people.

That seems very odd, there would appear to be a whole raft of over potential crimes he could have been charged with if they couldn't make the original one stick. GBH, ABH, Assault, Assault with a deadly weapon, Carrying a concealed weapon etc.

I'm surprised they didn't pursue some other avenues of prosecution.

I'm surprised they didn't pursue some other avenues of prosecution.

Don't want to upset the "England Prevails!" crowd.

Original Poster8 points · 6 months ago

Wow. The UK has a messed up justice system too?

I really hope they're watching him, my heart is aching from the stress.

Just so you know, the US justice system was practically copied from English common law, the deviations only started after independence.

We are a deviant country.

At the time of independence, intoxication was not accepted as a defence, even to specific intent crimes, in England. That changed in the US over the course of the 19th century (and has since been reversed by statute in many US states).

Original Poster1 point · 6 months ago

TIL

9 more replies

Remind me to get drunk before going and being a human shitstain, so I can get away with it.

He isnt a muslim so its not a terror charge

Trying your own nationals on terrorism charges would set a bad precedent. Those laws are made for foreigners.

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164 points · 6 months ago

I won't ever understand how trying to kill someone by driving into them is not treated as attempted murder.

Or at the very least in this case drunk driving

It was. He was sentenced to 32 weeks for dangerous driving, and 6 weeks for drunk driving. Which is about how long you get for attempted murder in the UK anyway.

Regardless, unless the media is leaving out some extremely important details, it seems ludicrous that the prosecution could not convict him of a more serious charge.

It was. He was sentenced to 32 weeks for dangerous driving, and 6 weeks for drunk driving. Which is about how long you get for attempted murder in the UK anyway.

Da fuck.

That's not true.

Race and Religion.

He gets a pass.

[deleted]
8 points · 6 months ago

Thomas Mair got jailed for life, fuck off lol.

[deleted]
2 points · 6 months ago

In 21st century UK, murder is perfectly fine when Neo-Nazis do it.

Didn't kill anyone though did he?

[deleted]
11 points · 6 months ago

I'm sure he regrets his mistake and will try harder next time.

1 more reply

The Old Bailey heard that Marek Zakrocki, 48, also gave a Nazi salute and shouted “white power” before driving his van at Kamal Ahmed...

Oh great. It's come full circle where assholes go from screaming "Allah Akbar" to "White Power" when doing crazy shit.

35 points · 6 months ago

Only the people who shout those statements before inflicting harm on others don't see the similarities

Fighting fire with fire is a perfectly legitimate option.

The day that the Deep Water Horizon spill happened, a guy walked into my local Hastings (when they were still open RIP), yelled WHITE POWER! and then aimed at the nearest black person (a young woman who was a barista in the cafe) and shot his shotgun at her, blowing off 3 of her fingers as she shielded her face from the blast.

He then drove to a local bar and tried to do the same thing, but the doorman confronted him and the guy shot him point blank in the chest. The guy later drove home, and killed himself with a pistol when the police arrived.

This is a thing that has been happening for awhile, it's just no one cares when a stupid nazi murders people on Hitler's birthday.

Hey, your hometown is Wichita Falls!

Wouldn't have been paticularly hard to find that out from the details I gave, lol.

I live in Wichita Falls jerk.

Could you link me to this? I'm not trying to call bullshit, but only losing 3 fingers while shielding your face from a shotgun seems... wrong. Like, was her face completely fine? Did he just miss?

She threw her hand up to shield her face when he pointed the gun at her. It probably saved her life, he was using your regular hunting shot so it wasn't like he fired a slug at her. A slug would have probably tumbled through her hand and into her head.

But here is a couple of articles:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2010/04/22/Wichita-Falls-gunman-who-killed-1-7289

http://www.newschannel6now.com/story/12808899/ross-muehlberger-visited-shooting-range-hours-before-rampage

Ahh, fair enough. Geez... that's rough all around. Thanks for the links

birdshot most likely

Who the fuck uses birdshot to shoot people? Slugs or 00 is where it's at!

don't think you can get those in England very easily or at all. also we use a different size scale for shotgun ammo, its kinda confusing.

I mean he's a supporter of Britain First and they've already had a guy scream "Britain First" as he murdered an MP.

Blowback!

They let a terrorist out of prison.

when the hell are we going to declare Britain First a terrorist organisation? they regularly advocate for violence against minorities, one of their members murdered a MP on the street screaming "Britain First" and "Freedom for Britain", this knucledragger attempted a terror attack, and they regularly go around terrorising and intimidating the Muslim population of the country!

when the hell are we going to declare Britain First a terrorist organisation?

There needs to be three more things happen first:

  • Britain First needs to win government;

  • take over the country and ban all other parties;

  • fight and lose a disastrous war;

  • and the UK has to be liberated by military invasion.

Right wing racist movements rarely get treated as terrorists unless they've lost a war.

Certainly if I were in charge then BF would have been on the proscription list a long time ago.

I assume a big part of it is that these organisations serve as a decent way to monitor activity and keep people away from more extreme groups.

Can't he at least be deported? Doesn't sound like a very nice person.

Yeah can we send him back to the ‘shithole’ country of Hell?

That's Hel to you, sir.

-9 points · 6 months ago(2 children)

Well that doesn't seem right. There must be a way.

hehehe true!

The court heard he had been drinking heavily that day and had grabbed his wife’s arm and threatened to kill people and then himself. Before driving at Ahmed he had pushed an unknown Asian man and shouted “white power, white power”.

He managed to convince someone to marry him?

It was a white wedding.

Shame it wasn't a red wedding.

So let me get this right a Polish England First member gave a Nazi salute and chased an Asian man down the street $1 u/tippr

Original Poster1 point · 6 months ago

Thanks for the tip, my friend.

What are Britain First even trying to do? Islam is a religion. Britain cant ban a religion. These groups will only increase hate towards muslims

Their whole purpose is hate towards Muslims. Their leader at one point was convicted for breaching a court order to stay out of mosques as he keeps going into them to harass people.

Fun fact about these cunts: They have the most facebooks likes of any political party in the UK.

Most of their likes im guessing were by Trump supporters after he shared those videos. BTW, they are having very less likes in their posts.

They use underhand tactics to get the likes-for every racist post they'll post about how wrong animal/child abuse is. People see those posts and like the page because of course hurting animals/children is wrong.

*Russian bots.

2 points · 6 months ago

I wouldn't be surprised though if a lot of those weren't people essentially there for laughing at the absurdity.

Like Flat Earthers, tbh

A lot of countries have banned religions, ban on Scientology being a good example. Britain First, on the other hand, is a terrorist organization. They aren't really interested in a ban on Islam, they want to kill everyone who isn't white and Christian. So wouldn't expect them to go down the legislative path if they were politically active.

Technically, they've banned Scientology by declaring it not a religion.

Britain is secular, therefore doesn't ban religions. As for Scientology, there are very good arguments why it's not a religion. In fact, the first time it was declared a religion in any official manner was due to blackmail.

Britain is secular,

CoE is still our national religion iirc

5 more replies

A lot of countries have banned religions, ban on Scientology being a good example.

What countries have "banned" Scientology?

Original Poster11 points · 6 months ago

Russia.

I think you are wrong. Do you have a source indicating that the practice of Scientology is banned in Russia?

That article lists not a single country where Scientology has been banned.

3 points · 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

I never once said it had been banned anywhere. But the Wikipedia link does accurately list places where it is considered a religion and places where it is not.

First, the comment I responded to was:

A lot of countries have banned religions, ban on Scientology being a good example.

Second, my comment which you responded to was:

What countries have "banned" Scientology?

There is an enormous difference between an organization or practice being banned and a particular organization not receiving recognition as a religion or charity, and in the context of the original comment, the latter - non-recognition - is irrelevant.

It does make mention of the numerous times the supposed religion has been stripped of or not granted the right to call itself a religion. Thus banning Scientology from behaving as one in those countries.

Goodbye.

France iirc

I think you do not recall correctly.

Since 1995, some French authorities have classified the Church of Scientology as a “secte” (cult) as seen in the report of the National Assembly of France.

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/rap-enq/r2468.asp

Wikipedia’s source

[deleted]
4 points · 6 months ago

So it's not banned.

Thank you for confirming what I said. The practice of Scientology is not banned in France.

Original Poster6 points · 6 months ago

Israel called it a cult as well.

That doesn't mean that it's "banned".

Their policies page on their website is good if you're looking for a laugh, they want a US bill of rights system and then in the very next page state they want to ban all Muslims.

Scientology is not a religion. Dont take my word for it ask the founder:

"Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors."

I wonder if the law would act diffently if he said ”I am going to kill a christian” and had isis flyers in his pocket and so on.

Probably the same, since its so easy to get murder dropped for various weird reasons and he already served the rest of what he was convicted for on remand.

You dont think intelligence offices would be intrested in locking him up?

Nah, because they know who he is now.

[deleted]
1 point · 6 months ago

Nope. They're watching him, to see who he interacts with

Sounds like a regular good guy standing up to those pesky immigrants, i remember the good old UK where there were no muslims, everybody shouted "white power" and beat their wives.

A country full of people like Marek Zakrocki would truly be a blessed place, or perhaps not.

5 points · 6 months ago

Just a concerned citizen. A moderate right-winger.

Comment deleted6 months ago(0 children)
32 points · 6 months ago

Marek Zakrocki. Now, that's a very British name...

Original Poster26 points · 6 months ago

It's polish.

These people hate immigrants so much they use the fact that this immigrant hates immigrants to justify their hate for immigrants and don't even understand for a second the weird hypocrisy of it.

19 points · 6 months ago

What's stupider is that he's a Polish neo-Nazi, basically. Absolute morons like him with no education don't even realize the damage Hitler and his ilk did to our country over half a century ago...

And yeah, he's an immigrant who hates immigrants. That's two layers of stupidity.

4 points · 6 months ago

Or to his own country. The Polish suffered greatly under Hitler. They should be some of the last people to be neo-Nazis.

Well, I did mean "our country" as in "Poland"...

2 points · 6 months ago

Oh right. Since it was a story about something that happened in Britain, I assumed you were British. The Nazis did quite a bit if damage there too. Basically, both Brits and Poles shouldn't be Nazis.

Yes, all five Muslims in Poland are really overrunning the place

You would think so, but for whatever reason Eastern Europe is rife with Neo-Nazis compared to their Western neighbors.

Or to his own country. The Polish suffered greatly under Hitler. They should be some of the last people to be neo-Nazis.

That's not how it works though. When you hate enough, you don't care how much harm happens to yourself and those you care about, so long as the people you hate suffer worse.

About half of US politics is driven by angry white people voting for people who will enact policies that hurt them a lot, but will hurt blacks even more.

From what i've seen from the internet, poland has a pretty massive problem with that.

Not really helping is the fact that our own government is filled (well, after recent changes a bit less so) with conspiracy lunatics from the ultra-conservative/Catholic martyrdom cult of a ruling party.

5 points · 6 months ago

This kind of hypocrisy is kind of what I've come to expect from these far right types. They often seem to believe that you don't have to integrate into the country you were born in. You can misbehave as much as you want if you were born there. In my home city, they've even gone around stabbing clerks in the face and throwing molotovs at a mosque, hardly the kind of action you expect from someone who's integrated in western society. I doubt they'd even be able to pass an integration course. But they do expect foreigners to integrate, and even then it's never good enough. It doesn't matter to them whether the foreigner behaves like a serious piece of shit, or like a model citizen. They're never integrated well enough.

I've had it with these people. If you live here, you should act like you belong here. I don't give a damn whether you entered the country through the border, or through your mother's vagina. Act normally, or leave.

Apparently this is a thing in other countries. In America it's not unknown for people whose families immigrated to the US in the 20s/30s/40s or whatever to then talk in quite negative manner about recent immigrants. Then the native racists jump on the bandwagon.

[deleted]
10 points · 6 months ago

That_was_their_point.jpg

He should probably learn what the Nazis did to Poland

The best part to come out of this will be that it gives the police someone to keep track of for further violence. Which means they can round up a bunch of Britain First-ers when they attempt a larger violent act.

Britain first terrorist*. Oh nevermind, i forgot the uk government and the uk media couldn't care less when It's white people killing muslims.

I bet $20 he'll assault or try to kill another Muslim in his lifetime

Asumed it would be over hyped but he actually should be in prison right now to be honest

clap clap. impressive that he found an actual Muslim and not some Indian guy. thats leagues ahead of the US even in the redneck category.

So there were at least 2 Britain First fans in court that day.

And what happened to our white nationalist terrorist in the US? The Charlottesville guy? Every time I look him up I find articles of him facing trial and that’s it. Why in the fuck are we letting these domestic terrorists get away with this shit?

The Charlottesville guy is facing trial and has been charged with first degree murder. Serious shit. Trials take a while. It isn't like CSI where everything is wrapped up in a week.

Do you have a source? I haven’t been able to find anything on it.

Each episode presents a murder case and a group of lovable heroes armed with cool, high-tech gadgets who do the sleuthing and wrap things up in an hour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI:_Crime_Scene_Investigation

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/us/charlottesville-james-alex-fields-court-appearance/index.html

 

Less than a month ago. If something has changed since then I haven't seen it. Things appear to be moving along.

He still served a few months in prison, there is that.

Original Poster7 points · 6 months ago

Sadly his counterparts wouldn't receive the same lenient sentence.

2 points · 6 months ago

Send him back to his own coun... Oh wait, he's already there. Send him back anyway.

ouff uk is on a roll today x)))))

lol gosh, good thing you guys voted out of EU!!

Why is that?

because you deserve to deal with your won deplorables alone.

What do you mean?

I believe they're saying that the UK sucks and they don't even go to school here

Good thing he didn't drive.

"Walks free." Technically correct, I guess.

"Sentenced to 33 weeks behind bars." Correcter, but probably wouldn't result in clicks clicks clicks clicks. Any lie or half-truth is good in pursuit of clicks, right, Guardian scribes?

[deleted]
-12 points · 6 months ago(1 child)

What?

Am I the only one who had to read the title of the article like 10 times before I understood what it was trying to say?

*After serving 33 weeks in jail.

Original Poster1 point · 6 months ago

Uh huh. The point is that clearly wasn't enough time.

-13 points · 6 months ago(3 children)
Original Poster30 points · 6 months ago

Yes, he does need counseling but also needs to be separated from society.

Giving one and not the other at the same time is the problem in the UK. He's probably gonna kill somebody for sure now.

So does every criminal, Prisons are not shit, but if we are going to use them then at least throw people like this in there as well.

Hi, I'm here for the outrage?

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