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Posted by8 days agoGilded4

Global warming: April was 400th straight warmer-than-average month

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8.7k points·8 days ago

At what point does "warmer than average" become the new "average"

30 years. Climatology is based on averages over 30 years this allows for decade long trends to be seen. It's a doubled edged sword though as climatologists always say individual extreme events can't be individually attributed to climate change. There were always storms or dry spells or historic highs or lows. Flooding happens, politician says well it doesn't prove climate change and a climatologist has to agree but the frequency of outside average events is now undeniable and all the science points to anthropogenic co2 production.

1.7k points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

400 months is over 33 years so surely the average has shifted.

Edit: Doesn’t stop the new data being higher than the previous data or new average though.

868 points·8 days ago

Which is even worse because the average undeniably shifted upwards with those extra 3 years.

239 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

So how much warmer has the planet become compared to 400 months ago? Couldn't find jack shit in the article. It's either shitty journalism or my reading comprehension sucks.

Also, the site that keeps track of the average is down. What the fuck is this? I'm so pissed it feels like the planet is getting even warmer.

333 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

Roughly 0.75C - which may not sound like much, but when you think that the amount of energy required heat both the atmosphere and sea water to a depth of 1m (as you can't have one without the other) globally by 1 degree c is on the order of something like 1021 Joules.

That's a hell of a lot of extra energy.

Here's a nice page to put that into context.

Edit: sentence easier to read now it is, much influence yoda was at first.

133 points·8 days ago

Even talking about energy doesn’t really get the point across about the significance of the change. 0.75 Degrees C also means dramatics changes in things like insect life cycles, which has consequences such as increased crop damage. So the temperature itself may not seem like much, but the impact in our economy is huge.

Localized temperatures can be very different, much higher as well as much lower than just 0,75 degree differences. The issue with global temperatures is how it affects the climate in its entirety on our globe. All the streams through the air and sea of hot and cold air and water can and will change potentially in direction (and they're already fairly chaotic), intensity as well as "polarity" (is that the right term to use here?).
Chaotic and unusual weather patterns can already be observed and are going to get worse. Already hot and dry climates such as the middle East could suffer a lot from very severe heat waves which could cause way worse refugee crises compared to what we've seen because of the war.
I'm pretty sure we're all in for a pretty rough time to come.

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Goddamit!! Why the fuck is everyone always fucking sugar coating this? This is bad ffs.

.75 Celsius now means double that i the next 30 years and again the next 30 and so on, as these kinds of changes are hard to undo once they get going. More co2 makes it warmer which makes more co2 etc... on top of that melting ice in the poles and the tundras of the world release methane trapped in the ice.... which makes it even warmer... which makes it warmer still and so on.

So by 2100, we are looking at 2 - 3 degrees warmer. This is the BEST case scenario, but the truth is we dont know what cascading effects things like the methane release will really have here.

But already at that level we are going to have to restructure all coastal towns and cities, and evacuate lots of island nations.

But that's not the point.

If this goes to 6-8 degrees increase we are done.

Thats it, the end of the human race. A few rich assholes might surivive a generation or two in bunkers, but the particulates in the air will make it unbreathable, and the radiation from the sun will make daylight lethal. Thats how close we are TO THE END OF THE HUMAN RACE.

i dont know whats more annoying, politicians not taking this seriously, or scientists not explaining this properly for fear of being seen as an alarmist.

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Reddit hug of death

That server is heating so much from the traffic that it contributes to climate change.

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Not a whole lot, it increased by such a small number you wouldn't really feel it if you suddenly had that increase in temperature. The problem is, certain natural systems can change by a LOT with even the slightest changes in temperature and scientists predict that 2 degree increase in ocean temperature would be ctastrophic.

Best example of that is the gulf stream. we had an example this winter of what could happen if something were to happen to disrupt it. This winter, the gulf stream shifted so that it headed further north than normal, this pushed hot air into the arctic which in turn pushed the arctic air down to europe. This meant that the temperature in the artic was a LOT warmer than usual and europe had an especially cold winter.

65 points·8 days ago

To add on to this, there is a huge problem with what u/mira113 notes about shifting weather patterns. Imagine a 2 degree shift hardly noticeable right? Well to the arctic it’s not, shifting weather means that cold air isn’t trapped in the northern hemisphere as is typical, and warm air moves up, on average there might be a negligible average change, but to specific parts of the globe there may be drastic changes.

Suddenly you have permafrost that’s not permanent or frost... This releases huge amounts of methane into the atmosphere that further drives global warming at an accelerated rate. The oceans warm as well because it’s a giant heat sink.

As the waters warm, clathrate (methane ice) can become destabilized from underwater deposits and be released into the atmosphere, the most dire simulations model a 6 degree shift in 75 years if enough is released just from the oceans.

A previous mass extinction called the Permian–Triassic extinction event has some evidence of runaway global warming associated with increased atmospheric methane as a contributing factor.

I’m not a live green type of person, I still drive an internal combustion car and consume like there is no tomorrow but in the rational side of my brain I realize that I’m hastening the day where there might indeed be no tomorrow. That cognitive dissonance is a hard pill to swallow.

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Exactly, if it keeps getting warmer, the new month will still always be above average.

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The "average", if you read the article, is the entire 20th century.

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Their trend is based off of all of the 1900's, so not just the past 30 years in this case.

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From the top comment:

Climate scientists use the 20th-century average as a benchmark for global temperature measurements. That's because it's fixed in time, allowing for consistent "goal posts" when reviewing climate data. It's also a sufficiently long period to include several cycles of climate variability.

If that is accurate, it is a set baseline from which they are comparing. So there will never be a change in the "average" for this particular measure (which is probably not what most people think of when they hear the word average).

Comment deleted8 days ago(1 child)

http://berkeleyearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/TimeSeries2017.png

Doesn't look like a 30 year cycle. Every scientist I see talk about this says basically the same thing. Not part of a normal cycle, not easily solved with current gen tech, and very much caused by fossil fuels.

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Don't know when it might change, but as for now (from the article)...

Climate scientists use the 20th-century average as a benchmark for global temperature measurements. That's because it's fixed in time, allowing for consistent "goal posts" when reviewing climate data. It's also a sufficiently long period to include several cycles of climate variability.

The baseline for this is the 20th century average.

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400 straight months; that's hard even to visualize. 33 years

does calculation It's my fault, you guys!

Environmentalists hate him

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Wow, 33 years; that's hard to visualize. 1716 weeks

Wow 1716 weeks; thats hard to visualize. 12012 days

Wow 12012 days; that's hard to visualize. 288,288 hours.

Wow 288,288 hours; that’s hard to visualize. 17,297,280 minutes.

Wow 17,297,280 minutes; that’s hard to visualize. 1,037,836,800 seconds

Actually, that does SOUND like a whole lot of seconds...

"I'll do it in like... a billion seconds"

Just hard to put into perspective...

Now, 0.33 decades, on the other hand....

You mean 3.3333333333333 decades? Or 0.33333333333 centuries?

I know what I meant.

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17,297,280 minutes... 17,297,280 moments so dear. 17,297,280 minutes, how do you measure, thirty three years?

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Bullshit, there's no such thing as April 400th

It's called April 420th, man

greenhouse gases out in full force that day

Hey hey no no Deforestation has got to go

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80 past two on April 47th, it's the dawn of an enlightened Springfield

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Original Poster3.7k points·8 days ago

It was December 1984, and President Reagan had just been elected to his second term, Dynasty was the top show on TV and Madonna's Like a Virgin topped the musical charts.

It was also the last time the Earth had a cooler-than-average month.

Last month marked the planet's 400th consecutive month with above-average temperatures, federal scientists from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced Thursday. 

The cause for the streak? Unquestionably, it’s climate change, caused by humanity's burning of fossil fuels. 

"We live in and share a world that is unequivocally, appreciably and consequentially warmer than just a few decades ago, and our world continues to warm," said NOAA climate scientist Deke Arndt. "Speeding by a '400' sign only underscores that, but it does not prove anything new."

Climate scientists use the 20th-century average as a benchmark for global temperature measurements. That's because it's fixed in time, allowing for consistent "goal posts" when reviewing climate data. It's also a sufficiently long period to include several cycles of climate variability.

"The thing that really matters is that, by whatever metric, we've spent every month for several decades on the warm side of any reasonable baseline," Arndt said.

NOAA's analysis found last month was the 3rd-warmest April on record globally. The unusual heat was most noteworthy in Europe, which had its warmest April on record, and Australia, which had its second-warmest.

Portions of Asia also experienced some extreme heat: In southern Pakistan, the town of Nawabshah soared to a scalding 122.4 degrees on April 30, which may have been the warmest April temperature on record for the globe, according to Meteo France

North America was the one part of the world that didn't get in on the heat parade. Last month, the average U.S. temperature was 48.9 degrees, 2.2 degrees below average, "making it the 13th-coldest April on record and the coldest since 1997," NOAA said

More: Spring shiver: Last month was USA's coldest April in more than 20 years

More: Earth's carbon dioxide levels continue to soar, at highest point in 800,000 years

For the year-to-date, the Earth is seeing its 5th-warmest start to the year. 

A separate analysis of global temperature data from NASA also found last month was the third-warmest April on record. 

Another milestone was reached in April, also related to the number "400": Carbon dioxide — the gas scientists say is most responsible for global warming — reached its highest level in recorded history at 410 parts per million.

This amount is highest in at least the past 800,000 years, according to the Scripps Institute of Oceanography.

TIL that there hasn't been a cooler than average month in my entire life.

468 points·8 days ago

So it’s your fault then?

Probably all the methane I produce.

You flatulent fuck

In awe at the size of this lad.

Absolute bowel unit

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We can blame your parents. It was their hot new mixtape they made on the day you were born.

It wouldn't be so hot if there weren't so many fire tracks on soundcloud!

/s

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Poor you. One of my most treasured childhood memories is listening to my parents mentioning that it felt colder than average of late.

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Boy, it sure is a hot one today, huh?

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2.5k points·8 days ago

"Global warming isn't happening. And if it is happening, it's normal and natural. And if it isn't normal and natural, it's not our fault. And if it is our fault, we'll fix it. And if we can't fix it, it's OK because we need to get rid of some people."

-My dad. Seriously.

That’s a hyper specific rendition of the narcissists prayer.

For those wondering:

That didn’t happen.

And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.

And if it was, that’s not a big deal.

And if it is, that’s not my fault.

And if it was, I didn’t mean it.

And if I did…

You deserved it.

For anyone having trouble with the difference between "not that bad" and "not a big deal", here:

The milk didn't spill.
Okay, it did, but not a lot.
Okay, it was the entire gallon, but it's not a big deal.
Fine, so it seeped through the floor and destroyed a network server, but it wasn't my fault!
WHATEVER, I SPILLED IT. IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!
Fuck you.

That 'FINE I DID IT, IT WAS A MISTAKE' is the worst.

They turn it back and make YOU the asshole for pointing facts out.

Pieces of shit.

No, this is when you go back to "then why did you lie" or "then why didn't you do anything about it." followed by "It was an accident..."

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If you reverse it, it becomes excellent life advice on owning your actions.

That did happen.

And it was bad.

And it was a big deal.

And it was my fault.

And I mean it.

And because I did…

I am apologizing and making amends for my actions

63 points·8 days ago

These sound more like the thoughts that haunt me while I try to sleep.

The last step is the key between self-abuse and self-help. Putting yourself down with no plan of action to change your behavior only serves to make yourself feel worse.

We are what we repeatedly do and if we repeatedly fall short of the goals that we set for ourselves, and if we never strive to change that outcome, what does that make us?

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Comment deleted8 days ago(8 children)

Trump's press release on the subject, also

How long until a redditor digs up a series of tweets that say EXACTLY this on one or more issues?

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Ah yes, my family mantra

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It's pretty much a line by line match

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"Global warming isn't happening. And if it is happening, it's normal and natural. And if it isn't normal and natural, it's not our fault. And if it is our fault

That's usually where it stops for the people I know. They would never admit fault, even partially. They would just start doubling down on their previous statements, by saying things like "we could release all the CFCs and smog into the air today and it would still be less than the earth produces naturally in a whole year!"

Whether or not that's true is irrelevant. It's like being chained to the bottom of a pool, with the water almost up to your nose, and someone saying "we could add two inches of water and it would still be less than the water that's already in the pool!" Even if that's true, that two inches of water will still be enough to drown you.

The reply I have is this: The early settlers thought there was no way they would kill the now estimated 20-60 million bison that roamed the great plains. How could they? How could man kill them off and make any sort of dent in this naturally flourishing population? When was the last time you saw a fucking bison roaming around? What the hell happened? Did man have some large affect on the natural environment?

Obviously aliens.

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And don't forget the passenger pigeons, that we ate pretty much all of.

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23 points·8 days ago

It's like these people were never taught about the dust bowl in school.

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This isn't real but if it is fuck my son's future.

Only bad people will be negatively affected by an uninhabitable climate. The man, and his son, and everyone he cares about will definitely be okay because they're good people. /s

The Just World Fallacy is insidious.

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Not just your dad but so many people across the board old, young, well educated, dropouts, rich, poor it's sickening that the point of view is so prevalent.

It's denial, not a point of view. I sometimes wonder if that's the only way they can stay sane.

Never said it was a valid point of view

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I mean-- not all points of view are informed ones!

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74 points·8 days ago

So we need to kill half the population? I mean that would solve world hunger... maybe

Time to round up some magic gems.

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cool it thanos

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

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45 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

I don't think the problem is the amount of food we have, it's getting it to those who need it. For intense, the USA throws away about half its food

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Perfectly balanced

Fun isn't something one considers when quoting a movie, but this, this does bring a smile to my face.

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World hunger or even the hunger in the US alone isn't a problem about food but logistics. There is plenty of food to go around but transporting it and keeping it from rotting is the real issue.

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OP, I don't feel so good

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That's pretty much a revision of the narcissist's prayer.

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Oh yeah, well riddle me this liberals:

If climate change is real...WHY ARE THERE STILL MONKEYS?

I will answer but you will have to explain magnets afterwards.

I'm not an idiot. Magnets contain the Holy Spirit.

Try explaining that to juggaloes

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Tide goes in tide goes out; you can't explain that

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Obligatory post for any global warming thread:

Skeptical Science's list of Global Warming / Climate Change Myths with scientific rebuttals

197 of the most common denier myths/ talking points with extensive rebuttals based on scientific research. Click each rebuttal for a link to a detailed explanation of the actual science with multiple sources and supporting media.

29 points·8 days ago

Sorry not buying it, noted high school graduate Sean hannity disagrees with this science, who should we believe?

/S

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Oh god.. that number 23 is spot on.

Every time there’s a colder than average streak my step father blurts out “HA! Globalllll warminggggg!” But on consistent warmer than average weeks he says nothing because he likes the warmth. Lol

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[deleted]
682 points·8 days ago(157 children)
285 points·8 days ago

The unfortunate thing is that this is how Republicans who don't believe in man-made global warming think. The fact that the US had a colder than average April will absolutely solidify in their minds that this all just "cyclical changes in the weather". I hate to say this, but hopefully we experience a hot summer in the States since experiencing extreme heat makes conservatives more likely to believe that global warming is happening.

193 points·8 days ago

I mean Virginia jumped from winter to summer and totally skipped spring. I think we're about to have a real toasty summer.

Gonna be an interesting hurricane season here in FL.

Does... Does it have to be? I think I missed the opt out form they mailed everyone.

We've universally decided to not have hurricanes this year; the margin against versus for was as close as Brexit. (52 to 48)

I'm not sure it counts as "universally decided to not have hurricanes" if about half the people want to have hurricanes.

It does if you're using the Thanos Method.

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I think that's a change of address form for 'Anywhere But The Southeast'

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We've only had a week or two of Spring and Fall in NY for the last few years. Summer basically lasts from mid-April to November.

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In parts of PA we went from winter to summer and then had a week of winter again before we got spring. Tuesday went from 95 and sunny to 65 with 1/2" plus hail in an hour. Now 4" of rain. Weather's fucked yo.

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Same in Colorado. Had a lingering winter (as usual) but then went straight to 80 degrees a few days later.

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52 points·8 days ago

People around me don't even remember shit month to month. We had 70-80 degree days in FEBRUARY in the mid-Atlantic. Then April gets a little chilly and it's all "LOL wut global warming"

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It's one of the reasons a lot of people have started to use the term "climate change" instead of "global warming"

Well, if it makes you feel better, thousands of acres of forest will burn up this summer for sure! Get your facemasks and fire insurance, folks!

Millions, not thousands.

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what gets me is his quote "i used to believe in global warming til i saw the cost"

i wanted to ask the moron, did he see how the cost was ticking away higher and higher as he was making up his mind if the since was real? the years the right have stolen from fixing this will cost us trillions in the long run.

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1.7k points·8 days ago

It could be random. It's only a 1 in 2.58224e+120 chance of 400 months being above average in a row (ignoring exactly average months).

iamnotastatistician

324 points·8 days ago

We better run it up to 1000 just to be sure.

Not like we have a choice anyway...

35 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

And anyways, even IF we do take care of environment, what would we get? Just a better future for our kids?
Edit: Sarcasm

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I'm not a statistician either, but I'm a PhD student in math.

The number you computed ( 2-400 ) relies on the results for each month being independent of the other months, which is false (what happens in any given April and what happens in the following May are very likely measurably related, for example). Numbers get far more complicated when things are dependent on each other, especially if the degree to which they are dependent is unclear. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to compute a more precise number - not my field.

Also, it's possible for the chance of something being above average to be very different from 50% if the data is skewed. For instance, 90% of the elements of the following list are above its average value of 0.9: { 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1}. If you want (essentially) half of the data to fall on one side and half to fall on the other, you want median values not average values.

It's still pretty clear that global warming is a thing though. Most people (besides perhaps some disgruntled folks in retirement homes) that disagree with human caused climate change are now only denying the "human caused" portion.

Pretty spot on with denying the "human caused" portion. I work with somebody who doesn't deny climate change, but says that humans have nothing to do with it because the warming and cooling of the planet is cyclical and that humans on the earth are basically a flea on a dog's back.

That's where you have to show this wonderful plot https://xkcd.com/1732/ which very clearly shows there is a difference between natural cycle and what's happening now.

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What does one do with a PhD in math?

Honest question coming from a music student.

Pot calling the kettle black, huh? :p

There's plenty of options. You can go teach (high school, college, whatever), or have a more research-focused university position, which probably still includes some teaching responsibilities. There's also plenty of varied industry jobs. The US government hires a lot of mathematicians (e.g. DoD), as do large private sector companies (e.g. gaming companies, engineering firms) for large data analysis or similar work.

Data scientist positions get filled by math PhDs pretty regularly.

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Yes yes, the only way I could think of to ask that question without sounding snarky was to also throw shade at my own degree. Pretty interesting stuff! TIL

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25 points·8 days ago

The random variables are very unlikely to be independent, so that'll bring up the probability of this occurring some what. I am not a climate scientist, so I have no idea how correlated month to month temperatures are.

Proving that climate change is happening is the easy part (and few people will actually attempt to deny this). All it takes is a couple of weather stations and thorough record-keeping.

The more difficult part is

  • proving that climate change is man-made

  • showing that climate change is extremely harmful and

  • proving that climate change can be stopped or slowed by humanity in general and individual actions specifically

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So you are saying there is still a chance then?

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636 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

The new normal. George Carlin was right about global warming. The planet will survive just fine. It’s humans that are fucked.

ETA: Just because I paraphrased a comedian doesn’t mean I actually beleive this. Comedians automatically have /s built in. No wonder some comedians are refusing to work college crowds anymore. Jesus Christ.

Comment deleted8 days ago(42 children)

99.9% of all species that have ever been in this planet are extinct. Not disputing what you're saying, just wanted to throw that little tidbit of information in there because I think it's interesting.

"We didn't kill them all."

At least we tried our best.

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I always appreciated Carlin but I only saw the bit where he says this much later. This is exactly what I tried to explain to people and failed miserably.

The whole "save the world" is just as anthropocentric of a perspective as the behaviour that causes climate change.

We're dying, and so are a bunch of other life forms but the planet is going to be here for a while.

Maybe the slogan "Nature is dying, save the planet" needs to be "Humans are nearing their fucking extinction, do something about it".

It would probably be more effective as a direct approach. We want to save the planet so we can live in it and we want to save nature so we can enjoy it. If we really wanted just to end climate change we could just all die. Or at least like 90% of us...

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Right but what will prevent my dad from saying "Where's your global warming now?" every time the temp drops below 65.

When all the plant life in the oceans die and he suffocates as a result.

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14 points·8 days ago

Show him this :D https://xkcd.com/1321/

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Serious question: What can an average joe like myself do to stop climate change? I’d love to do something to help

Don't reproduce

195 points·8 days ago

Oh good, that's easy

I'm doing my part!

Would you like to know more?

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22 points·8 days ago

For your average reddit user maybe.

Try telling that to India and China.

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Well you have a point but almost 40% of world population is in 2 single countries. How much can you do though.

People hate to hear this but it's one of the single most impactful decisions someone can make in their lifetime regarding overall effect.

While I generally agree, this is one of the contributing factors to an Idiocracy future.

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In all honesty, there is nothing one individual can realistically do to make any kind of difference at this point. Unless you grow all of your own food, make all of your own clothes, and can somehow get to work on time, your carbon footprint will be huge. Arguing that “everybody needs to do their part” is cute, but disgustingly unrealistic. It’s a hard pill for a lot of wannabe captain planets to swallow, but 7 billion people aren’t going to give up their standard of living for the sake of “doing their part.” That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. It also doesn’t mean that people should just be wasteful and polluting pieces of shit either. It just means it’s not going to happen for the reason “it’s the right thing to do.”

Any realistic progress on climate change must be a worldwide effort at this point. And that means international laws must be passed, and must be enforced. Technology needs to catch up to be less dependent on fossil fuels, and we are still way off. For example, car pollution is a drop in a bucket compared to the emissions from a fleet of cargo tankers. Entire countries depend on tons of cargo shipped overseas. You can’t just stop. We built an entire infrastructure out of fossil fuel dependency and now we’ve dug ourselves a hole that will be very hard to get out of. We’re going in the right direction, embracing solar and all, but it is going way too slow.

So what you need to do is vote for leadership that will not only acknowledge that climate change is real, but will do something about it.

Also a reminder that the official stance of every branch of government of the United States is that climate change is a conspiracy by China

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303 points·8 days ago
  1. Unpopular but: Be vegan, or at least less animal products and stop eating beef and dairy.

  2. Use public transport and/or bicycle/feet/self powered vehicle.

  3. Avoid long supply chains. That would be the hardest in my opinion.

Use public transport and/or bicycle/feet/self powered vehicle.

plus one to this.
using car-pools whenever possible. This is one small step so many of us could take and it really makes a difference in the long run.

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4. Vote for people who accept the fact that Global Warming is real and want to do something now.

This is probably the most important one to do.

18 points·8 days ago

My points are more focused on the actions you can do right now.

But while we are at it you could add:

5. Become an activist and spread the message.

6. Protest governments who don’t accept global warming.

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Don't have kids. Each new person adds a massive increase to your carbon footprint.

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The anawer no one wants to hear is usually go vegetarian or vegan. At the least cut down on meat/dairy consumption.

I think a lot of people are unaware or simply don't care how much land is used to raise livestock for slaughter.

It's the main reason for habitat loss and extinction too.

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Trans-oceanic shipping is also a big one. But good luck getting captains of industry to accept higher prices.

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And polar ice is collapsing at both ends.

What if the melting ice unearths an eldritch horror and it kills us all for disturbing its peaceful slumber.

we'd have the cults running around by now

All hail our Lord Cthulhu.

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The number one culprit for this who often skirts the blame game is corporate greed. It's corporate greed that stifles innovation, lies about the consequences of their practices, buys media companies to take advantage of ignorance on a massive scale, 'legally' purchases politicians by way of lobbyists and campaign funding, and shapes the products and food available to all consumers with no regard to environmental impact, obsessed with only profit profit profit.

The climate change deniers are just one symptom of corporate greed, which has been allowed to run riot across the globe for far too long. And we need to stop letting them hide behind the 'powerlessness' excuses like 'but we are beholden to our shareholders' or 'this is just capitalism.' Wrong, there are people in positions powerful enough to make decisions which can change this and they need to be held accountable. But instead we're turning on each other.

Corporate greed is destroying this planet and it's not some abstract faceless concept that has no way of being addressed. Corporate greed is the behavior of a small number of people in extraordinarily powerful positions.

Those Shinra BASTARDS!

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And how does corporate greed sustain itself without fear of reasonable regulation? By using politicians and conservative media to make claims about how bad regulation is and how it's stifling our economic growth.

"Regulation is just another way for the government to control everything in this country and we hate big government!"

In reality, reasonable regulation prevents corporations and organizations in the private sector from overstepping their reach and negatively impacting our environment. By demonizing the word "regulation" corporate greed is able to run rampant under the guise of growth and independence.

“Ultimately, if you think about all the youth that everybody has mentioned here in Africa, if everybody is raising living standards to the point where everybody has got a car and everybody has got air conditioning, and everybody has got a big house, well, the planet will boil over -- unless we find new ways of producing energy.” - Obama, 2013 in Johannesburg, South Africa

I think Obama hit on something that we largely continue to ignore. If developing countries have an industrial revolution similar to our own and other world powers, then that will be detrimental to the climate. The problem becomes how developing nations can develop in a cleaner way. Certainly cost and ability to implement cleaner technology is a concern. And of course in a global market, if the playing field is not level, then corporations will just do business where the regulations are fewer, less cumbersome, and less costly.

Obama said that in 2013 and we are not really any closer to any kind of a solution. We might actually be moving further from a solution.

What? Those countries are currently leapfrogging traditional infrastructure. Solar+storage is exploding in Africa. Same with crypto. That drives global cost declines and innovation as investment continues.

We might perceive it as moving backwards in the developed world but the clean revolution is global and it continues unabated.

Isn’t crypto bad for the environment

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Trump assured us that, despite the fact that our climate is actually changing, climate change isn’t “real”. They’ve (honestly) said they are entitled to their own facts.

Yeah, China is really pulling out all of the stops for this hoax.

Good thing it's just a prank, bro.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PlI5l41Hpww

It was still on his Twitter during this debate.

I really hope that when he has debates for the 2020 election, assuming he hasn’t been ousted, his opponent will have prepared a whole host of claims from Trump, with tweets on deck to back it up the moment he speaks into the mic “wrong” or “I didn’t say that”

You think it would matter? It's easier than Hell to point to verifiable evidence of his constant hypocrisy. His supporters don't care.

In the heat of the moment, they'd dismiss it as "fake news" and when urged to go voluntarily verify it themselves, they'll refuse (for example, many supporters think the Trump Tower meeting never happened....even though Trump Jr admitted it himself).

But if Trump was utterly refuted, live on TV, by his own words with the evidence forced upon the viewers? For him to say "I didn't say that" and 2 seconds later, the proof of him saying it was displayed without need to look the information up themselves? That could have some impact. Especially if he tried to pull that stunt multiple times in a debate, only to be called out by his own words every single time.

Still doesn't matter. They just chalk it up to the liberal media or some shit and continue on with their lunacy.

Heres the gameplan for trump in the 2020 debates:

"But her emails..."

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The last argument I got into over it, the guy had completely admitted climate change was real and that it was partially driven by mankind. However he claimed that scientists didn't understand HOW MUCH of a roll mankind played so it wasn't worth taking steps to address yet.

"Yeah I know this pill is poisonous, but I don't know how poisonous, so I'll keep taking them".

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Clearly fake news. There are only 12 months so...

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113 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

Global warming doesn't exist, and the earth is flat. Because it's 2018 and science is a apparently a belief system now.

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Well, I'm glad Scott Pruitt's working diligently about it with his security team. /s

199 points·8 days ago

If only we could figure out why this is happening. We just can't seem to crack it. Maybe one day we'll finally understand, but the science just isn't in.

The one thing we can say with certainty is that we have absolutely nothing to do with it. With that out of the way, lets get back to searching for clues...hmm...what could possibly be contributing to this.

67 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

let nature take its course, its been hot and cold for millions of years, heck, its even snowing in some places!

 

Apparently someone actually commented exactly what I did unironically. Unreal

I mean it's true. It "just" means the extinction of the human race, but once we're gone, the planet will probably right itself to some new equillibrium that we're not a part of.

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Denver: did you know we are now permanently in the range of the tarantula hawk due to climate change?

Don’t shoot them, you’ll only make them mad.

Water also found to be wet. More news at 11.

And yet NASAs own readings have shown that in the last 2 years the earth has cooled half a degree Celsius

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looking forward to fighting you guys for water in the wasteland

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24 points·8 days ago

its amazing the excuses some people will come up with, just to 'not believe' - its like they've already made up their minds, and will believe anything that sides with their opinion. "We're coming out of an ice age, this is normal" "cause//causation" "it was cold where i live" I was an environmental minor 10 years ago, the literature we read was overwhelming and pretty damn conclusive/scary about what's happening to our planet. Some of these non-believers should really read some literature (books) on this topic, before commenting with their feelings/opinions

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74 points·8 days ago·edited 8 days ago

So how does this work? taking global temps and averaging them all together? I'm not a climate change denier but as someone from the midwest who just had what was the longest/coldest winter of his life i'm genuinely curious.

Yeah essentially. The article acknowledged that NA had a cooler than average winter/early spring, but that was eclipsed by warming elsewhere. The variable that matters is total heat in the atmosphere, so you've got to look globaly.

Incidentally, one of the effects of climate change is to disrupt the jet stream and other air/water currents which tend to form boundaries between weather systems, which is why you get things like this February when the north pole hit 0 (Celsius, I think that's 32 f) but it was snowing in Rome.

If you're curious, you can look up maps showing warmer/cooler versus average around the globe. Last one I saw had the Midwest/northeast US (and eastern canada) cooler and literally ever other place on the globe warmer.

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Yes. They take 1000s of measurements from weather stations around the world and correct it for all sorts of variability in things like urban heat islands and other sources of influence and average them. There are several organizations that do this and they all roughly, within a few degrees, agree on the how the temperature is changing.

all roughly, within a few degrees,

I hope you mean "within a few hundredths of a degree", since the change is only about 2 degrees (F) from the 1880... A few degrees off (e.g. >3) on a scale that's only a couple degrees is not exactly confidence inspiring...

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9 points·8 days ago

The article talks about how North America actually did not share this trend, and April was actually a bit colder than average. As a Floridian in HVAC, I can confirm the unseasonably cool April. The areas affected most by the temperature increase were Europe, Australia and some parts of Asia.

It's a real shame though that US politicians that deny climate change will see the cooler than average month and completely miss/deny the big picture.

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The reason you (and me) experienced a colder, longer end of winter is because the hot air that was funneled to the north pole (making it 25 degrees above normal) essentially pushed the cold air mass out of the way and down over NA for a bit.

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Good thing we are cutting funding into studying this.

35 points·8 days ago

Thankfully there's other parts of the world who are well educated and their governments aren't falling for this nonsense.

We'll keep on studying it and will probably be happy to share our data once you sort those issues out you're having there.

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"We're perfectly fine." ~ Frog being slowly heated to death

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I do believe in climate change but this kinda made me chuckle because in Canada (or at least where I live) there was a huge ice storm in the middle of April and it was freezing and everything was just fucking covered in ice

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**sorts by controversial**

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