Hi everyone. It’s Jeph Loeb, head of Marvel TV, helping to bring you shows such as Marvel’s Jessica Jones, Marvel's Luke Cage, Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and Legion.
I’m here today because we’ve got a new series, Marvel’s Cloak & Dagger that premieres tonight at 8/7c on Freeform. I’m excited for you to see it, it’s different than many of the Marvel shows that you’ve seen.
If you aren’t familiar with Marvel’s Cloak & Dagger, watch the trailers here: https://www.youtube.com/cloakanddagger
I’m ready for your questions.
EDIT: THANKS EVERYONE for joining in and making this such a positive experience. I hope I answered as much as I could – fingers tired! – but great questions and a really fun time. Hope you enjoy C&D tonight and Luke Cage 2 on June 22 - and wait until you see what's coming for the rest of the year! Best! Jeph
WARNING: Each thread will contain spoilers for that episode. Spoilers for subsequent episodes are not allowed, but browse at your own risk.
There will be a live discussion on the discord at http://discord.gg/marvelstudios
Yes, the article is real and yes, it's baffling. Let me just give you some passages within the article, you'll love this:
"The series, in short, decides to put aside concerns about law enforcement in order to focus for 13 episodes on that conservative shibboleth, black-on-black crime. Crime in most cities has been dropping for decades, but you couldn't tell that from "Luke Cage's" Harlem, which is a throwback not so much to the violence of the 1990s as to the prohibition-era 1920s. Ethnic gangs — Korean, Jamaican, Italian — bring military arsenals to turf battles, while Cage and the cops try desperately to reimpose order. Black people in Luke Cage suffer because of (hyperbolic, anachronistic) crime, not because of racism."
This fucking article calls Luke Cage S2 "Conservative shibboleth, black-on-black crime" and how it puts aside concerns about law enforcement. Really? Didn't we already cover racism and injustice in Season 1? Why do it all over again, the show isn't just about spreading a social message, it's a fucking superhero show that's meant to ENTERTAIN! That isn't all, however:
"Antiracism in Luke Cage isn't a living tradition or a serious moral commitment; it's a scam"
So, yes, Antiracism is a 'scam' in S2 because it's not the entire focus. Here's another passage:
"Killmonger's methods were questionable, but his hatred of racism and injustice were sincere and powerful. That's what made him, by far, the MCU's greatest villain, and arguably it's greatest character."
Not only does this get it completely wrong by saying that the MCU's greatest villain is Killmonger (Red Skull, Kingpin, Loki, and Kilgrave disprove that statement) but it's also defending a racist character. Just because he hates racism against blacks, it means it's okay for him to give black folk everywhere weapons to commit violence against non-blacks. And greatest character, really? What a joke. And here's one more thing from this god-foresaken article:
"It's also in line with Netflix's "Iron Fist," which cast the remarkably underwhelming Finn Jones as billionaire Danny Rand, a white guy who became the greatest master of a mysterious Asian martial art, because white guys are always the best."
Are you fucking kidding me? Just because Danny Rand gained the power of the Iron Fist, it means that he became one of the world's most powerful martial artists just because he's white. Does the author even fucking know the backstory of the Iron Fist? He was raised by K'un Lun monks when his plane crashed, and he happens to be white. And Iron Fist greatly improved in S2, Finn Jones is way better now.
I hate to get all political folks, but this is absolute bullshit. Look up this article for yourself, it's brought to us by Noah Berlatsky, who clearly only wanted S2 to focus on skin color, someone who= has never read a comic book in their life, and someone who probably thinks that Black Panther is the greatest superhero movie of all time. What an absolute fucking joke.
Or Heroes for Hire that the “Daughters” are apart of. The only problem I see is where does Daredevil and Jessica fit in?
Wow. That was an incredible season. So much better than S1 imo. Without getting into spoilers, just a few things that I loved:
I genuinely loved this season, and I literally cannot wait for S3. I hope you all love the season as much as I did! For those who have finished, what did you think?
Unpopular opinion: I quite like their relationship in Season 1. This is just personal opinion.
Also unpopular opinion: Their relationship in season 1 doesn't "come out of nowhere"; this is my opinion but I also believe that it is fact, and I welcome anyone to challenge it.
Re #2, I would say that the Mariah/ Shades relationship is built gradually right from the start in 1x02, when Cottonmouth and Shades brought the money from the weapon sale to Mariah's office. Mariah didn't recognize or even remember Shades, but there was a scene in which Mariah talked to Cottonmouth but the camera focused on Shades observing her in the background, with blurred out Mariah and Cottonmouth. This is the classic way in cinematography to convey that someone is interested (romantically, or just intrigued by other reasons) in someone else. It was obvious to the point that Mariah noticed Shades observing her and asked Cottonmouth "Does your guard dog want a drink of water?", to which Shades just chuckled. There was nothing here yet, the age and gender of the characters made it difficult to think that Shades was romantically interested in Mariah, though it was clear that he was intrigued by her.
In their next interaction in 1x07, Shades got into Mariah's house unannounced and sent her assistant Alex away because they needed to talk alone. In this scene he talked about Mama Mabel and the Stokes family's legacy while invading her personal space (he stepped closer to her, probably to intimidate her, and she didn't step back). Then she tried to slap him, he caught her hand and held in for a while (to illustrate how it was to be powerless), with his face very close to hers, while giving her a pep talk encouraging her to be a proper crime boss. This scene is full of tension and if it happened between a man and a woman of relatively similar age, it'd be considered "sexually charged". During this scene I thought that it was intentional, but again because the age and gender of the characters I assumed they just hinted something between the two but wouldn't go through with it.
And when Mariah killed Cottonmouth in the same episode and Shades helped her to cover it up, this was the turning point where I felt the way their relationship was portrayed was so deliberate. Which is why I don't agree with the complain about "Nobody sees that kiss in 1x13 coming"; because it was NOT subtle At All. From this scene to the end of the season Shades CONSTANTLY invaded her personal space (being unnecessarily close to her), talked to her in hushed tone, grabbed her shoulders/ arms, gazed into her face/ eyes unblinkingly, etc. That's NOT the way a right-hand man talks to his boss, or non-marital family members talks to each other. And of course after Cottonmouth's death Shades was very quick in cementing Mariah's position as Harlem Paradise's new owner and gang leader, but exclusively those can be chalked up to Shades supporting her to protect himself. Throughout 1x07 to nearly the end of 1x13 I thought "If these two were close in age they would definitely gonna bang, but they're 20 years apart so they probably won't." Turned out I was wrong; but I wasn't surprised by Mariah and Shades's romantic/ sexual relationship, I was surprised by the showrunner actually had the gall to subvert the May-December romance trope and let the woman be the older one and the boss (though the boss-woman and right-hand man trope itself is super common and is part of the Queen/ Knight trope littered in adventure romance fiction).
Come season 2, all subtleties are now thrown out of the window (though as I said above, I'd argue against Mariah/ Shades relationship in season 1 being subtle at all) and the showrunner decided to put Mariah/ Shades scenes in every episodes. But these scenes now are very awkward, both to me and to all the henchmen in the room. I don't know whether it's intentional (they deliberately made these scenes as "edgy", "devious" and "unpretty" as possible to indicate Mariah's unhinged mental state later in the season) or whether they wanted to but were unable to create the chemistry between the characters (if this is the case then they made the wrong decision by making the scenes explicit because I think their chemistry in season 1 was much better and more natural). It probably doesn't help that Alfre Woodard is probably not considered attractive so it's difficult to create chemistry in those intimate scenes in season 2.
I'm on ep 7 and I love this guy from the performance to the motivation of this guy. I'm rooting for this guy. 🤞 he doesn't die at the end tho
I'm on episode 6, I know alot of people already finished but it's so good. The few first episodes felt a bit slow but it's really good now, probably one of my favorite seasons so far for sure.
I know some people feel like the netflix shows have been going downhill but this, Iron fist S2 and DD S3 coming soon, I think things are going to be getting back on track.
Given the positive response to Dannys apperance in luke cage season 2 do you think we will see more of the defenders crossover with eachother like luke appearing in JJ s3, or jessica in IF s2, etc? Id rather a second season of defenders but since it may not happen would you guys be happy with this?
I NEED that shot of Luke and Danny’s fist bump! Hahaha
I'm interested in luke cage but I couldn't stand Jessica jones s2. Do I need to watch Jessica in order to fully appreciate Luke Cage S2? I've watch all other Netflix marvel seasons.
So the janitor loses his job for doing what Frank asks him to do after regaining consciousness or "coming back to life". Frank asked him to take him home and the janitor apparently does since he was fired. But wait...in DDs2, when Karen is interviewing Frank in the hospital before he goes to trial he tells her that he hasn't been home since his family was killed...which is why he asked her about the state of the house. So did the janitor take him home or not? Second...he asks if the dishes were dirty and she says no they were washed and put in the rack yet his final scene in DDs2 shows him sitting at his kitchen table with dirty dishes before he burns the house. The fact that the script directly alluded towards the dishes, for some strange reason, then shows them not to be in the rack as Karen said they were is odd to me...surely this wasn't an oversight and surely the "take me home" situation wasn't an oversight. So what's going on here? Am I missing something or are the plot discrepancies intentional and nodding towards something that I haven't picked up on yet?
I understand that it wasn’t near as good as the Cottonmouth half, but come on, it was Iron Fist, Arrow season 4, Batman and Robin, or Fant4stic level bad Luke everyone makes it out to be. I always get thrown off when I see people rank Luke Cage so low and go on about how terrible the second half was, as to me it was pretty solid, but not great. What do you think? Do you guys think the hate for it is a little overblown? Loving season 2 by the way, if you didn’t care for the second half of s1 check it out it’s been very enjoyable at least to me!!
Two episodes in and I am really enjoying this season.
The story feels engaging, the conflict between Luke and his dad is interesting.
So far, Bushmaster is far superior to Diamondback. He has an intensity to him, dangerous yet charming.
Also really enjoying the closer connection to the Defenders considering already by first episode, Matt is mentioned by name.
Looking forward to watch the rest of the season!
A place to discuss Marvel Cinematic Universe's Netflix shows: Daredevil | Jessica Jones | Luke Cage | Iron Fist | Defenders | Punisher