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FDA trial uses Ecstasy to treat PTSD

166 comments
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level 1

Hopefully legal MDMA opens the door for other legal psychedelics in a clinical setting. And that hopefully paves the way for a more compassionate society, in which the Drug War is ended completely and all drugs are tightly regulated and sold in stores. I can see it happen. www.maps.org for lots of information about legal psychedelic therapy. And for a very thorough look at the subject, read "How t Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan.

level 2
139 points · 1 month ago

Hopefully a few decades from now, you will read on Wikipedia about how useful drugs such as psychedelics used to be prohibited and people heavily prosecuted because of them.

level 3

And weed legalization will seem as ridiculous and outdated as segregation or slavery- here's hoping.

level 4
75 points · 1 month ago

I would agree if you said prohibition but let's not act like this is on the level of slavery.

level 5
145 points · 1 month ago

The drug war is literally enslaving millions of people. Fuck the private prison system

level 6
41 points · 1 month ago

Well I can't argue with that. I just felt like it wasn't right to really put it up there with segregation. Also definitely fuck the private system, we don't have that here luckily.

level 7

Definitely not on quite as much of a systemic scale as segregation/slavery was u agree

level 8

Actually, it kinda still is. Check out the New Jim Crow and see how the criminal justice system is basically a new form of enslavement.

level 9

Jim Crow laws never went away. It was rebranded and used for profit rather than just control. They also expanded to the poor instead of just the minorities. Although they know what they do best so there’s still a focus on fucking over minorities.

level 5

As obsolete as slavery! Not a direct comparison of harm. Though I'd agree with professor Michelle Alexander that the drug war in general represents "The New Jim Crow," a means of virtual enslavement for mostly poor non-white people.

level 6
-3 points · 1 month ago

I see your point but calling it something like virtual enslavement will turn a lot of people off of legalisation, not everyone can see how responsible use is possible. I think we should take victories like this one and keep progressing step by step, seems like calling for full legalisation every time is exactly what many opponents fear.

level 7

What else do you call throwing people in prison and forcing them to work for less than a dollar an hour for non violent crimes?

The thirteenth amendment never fully abolished slavery. It is still legal.

level 8
2 points · 1 month ago

I would definitely call that slavery. I don't live in America though, I was more talking about the general state of illegal drugs. For profit persons and all that is definitely something I don't agree with.

level 9

It’s not just about prisons or prison wages.

There’s a broader issue in the disproportionate impact of law on the disadvantaged. People are trapped in poverty by a system that is set up to find reasons to punish them: probation, mandatory drug testing, mandatory or effectively mandatory (because the alternative is jail) enrollment in rehabs, AA... restrictions on travel, even free expression.

It’s a system that mostly only catches the people who can least afford to be caught... and then punishes them for not being able to buy a way out.

It’s not on the same level as the chattel slavery we used to practice, but it is a form of slavery, in my opinion.

level 10

you know a good way to stay out of prison. dont commit crimes.

level 7

Throwing millions of people in prison for non-violent "crimes" that are obviously not crimes really reminds of slavery. But I hear ya.

level 8

I always use this line "the most dangerous part of marijuana is being caught with it."

level 9

Exactly. It's the only serious risk, other than the semi-serious risk of eating way too many edibles and freaking out. If you're at all new to weed, please keep the edibles dose low (like below 50 milligrams, maybe 15-20 to start).

level 10

10 mg is a fine dose (legal state, so percise dosages are knowable)

level 8
6 points · 1 month ago

Especially when those prisoners are now forced to do labor for pennies an hour. Essentially slavery.

level 8
2 points · 1 month ago

I want to say that I do understand what you're saying. I don't fully agree but you make a decent point, and I'm also seriously against the insane drugs sentences, especially in America.

level 9

Michelle Alexander's book "The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness" is really worth a read, if you ever have time, amigo.

The Drug War is obviously not as egregious as literal slavery, and I don't often make that comparison, but it should be understood as a purposeful and extreme oppression of people, especially poor black and brown people.

level 10

I'll keep it in mind. And I definitely don't want to say it isn't used for oppression, it's quite clear it started out that way in fact.

level 7

You're literally arguing with a concept from a well-respected sociologist's book.

level 8
3 points · 1 month ago

Why does that matter? I'm not even criticising him at all, just saying that we should be careful not to act like we're oppressed the way literal slaves would've been. I think people are reading too far into what I'm saying.

level 9

Slavery never ended. Check the text of the 13th amendment. Slavery is just confined to prisons now.

level 10

Slavery is not at all confined to prisons. In fact it's almost universally prevalent. Most people are slaves and don't even realize it.

level 9
[deleted]
1 point · 1 month ago

You and I aren't repressed. That doesn't mean that some people aren't.

It can't just be that colored people take more drugs than white people or that colored people are more violent. That's a load of rubbish. Systemic racism coupled with thinly veiled slavery.

level 5

It is a form of slavery to regulate what another person can and can not do with their mental body. The use of MDMA and psychedelics have proven positive benefits for those who take them in controlled environments, and to prevent access to such treatments is an abhorrent miscarriage of justice and deprives individuals, and by extension, society at large, of a fundamental right so basic, yet so often overlooked: the right to know ones self.

level 6
2 points · 1 month ago

I agree with all your points, I just think it's important not to throw these terms around lightly as not to weaken our cause.

level 5

What if I told you the drug war was the continuation of slavery by those in power.

level 6

Read my other replies, I never denied that.

level 5
3 points · 1 month ago

It's definitely a continuation of slavery and it even targets the same community.

level 5

While the drug war isn't on the level of slavery it clearly has been used to lock up black and brown people. As Michelle Alexander put it, it is the new Jim Crow

level 5

I would say its just as bad. putting someone in a cage because of powder. at least slaves could walk around of their own accord lol.

level 5

Watch the 13th on Netflix and you’ll change your mind

level 3

Prosecuted isn't wrong in this context but I feel like you meant to say persecuted lol

level 4

No, I actually meant prosecuted, but I guess you could kinda say persecuted as well in a way

level 3

We live in the dark ages.

level 4

Indeed. They will also probably come up with a fancy name like The Great Psychedelic Oppression of the 20-21st century. It was a time when the efficiency of certain substances was recognized in treating certain conditions, while authorities still fed the masses made-up lies about them.

level 3

Am i the only one So selfish who doesnt want this to happen? Its not like i will get to reap the benefits of this by then so😑

level 2

Just heard an ad today for a ketamine used treatment center. $500 for 40 min, $1500 for 4 hours.

level 3

Wow, costly. But the results for ketamine treating depression have been really good, so if you're seriously depressed, I can see it being worth it. It's been getting a lot of press attention too; like here's an article in Science Daily: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180621172450.htm

level 2

Though I like the idea, I can’t imagine an America where you can walk into a store and buy psychedelics. At best they’d be prescribed which would probably at least make them safer and more accessible for the rest of us

level 2

Clinical Ketamine is booming here now. Won't be long.

level 2

And nonviolent drug offenders are released from prison and paid for their time incarcerated.

level 2

Any particular reason they jumped straight to molly? I've heard vets say pot is better.

level 2

sadly the brainwashing will still linger for another century or two so legalization of psychs is far off

level 3

I know, but the big hope is that psychedelic research changes that as the new internet-connected generation comes of age... so I'm crossing my fingers that it's more like two to three decades. There's a campaign in Denver right now- and in Oregon- to legalize mushrooms, and while it's unlikely to pass this round, I wouldn't be surprised if it passed in the next couple decades or so. With weed legalization, it took fourteen years from the first medical law passing until the first recreational law passed. It might take longer with psychs, but we'll see.

level 4

Hopefully. At least other countries like The Netherlands are open minded

level 2
-5 points · 1 month ago(3 children)
level 3

Not Wal-Mart selling cocaine, but we do have a lot of cities experimenting with what are called safe injection sites for heroin users to take their drug freely in a contained area. That way they known it's free of fentanyl, and the results from these programs have been really positive, as far as reducing overdoses and also reducing violent crime (which is directly associated with drug prohibition).

Even though full legalization of "hard drugs" is definitely a long way off, decriminalization may not be in a lot of places, and there's no reason we shouldn't at least talk about full legalization.

level 3

Why would Walmart need to sell heroin? The focus is on decriminalization and support for those addicted.

level 4

The dude said eventually all drugs will be completely legalized but regulated

level 1
154 points · 1 month ago

I hope one day the US gov atones for what are its crimes against society

level 2

Against humanity

There is no global war on drugs without the USA.

level 3

To be fair, all those other countries didn't NEED to follow suit, but they did it anyways. It was sort of a circlejerk of "oh, if the US thinks drugs are evil, they must be!" They had a chance to do research themselves, but they didn't. They just jumped on the bandwagon and any country who followed along is equally guilty.

level 4
40 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

Read up on our use of (or withholding of) essential aid to enforce compliance.

Agreement because it feeds starving people or gives money to build infrastructure is not the same as wholehearted agreement- they're not blameless, but neither are they willing participants

level 5

don't for get all those times we overthrew governments and installed dictators

level 4
21 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

Not exactly. Mexico, as a popular example, was forced into the war on drugs as they were punished heavily by the United States for not following suit.

They didn’t need to obey their demands but were quite literally bullied into it.

level 4

To a certain extent, the US is humanity's bane. Many problems in the world wouldn't exist if the government hadn't done much of what it's done

level 5
-5 points · 1 month ago(1 child)
level 6
17 points · 1 month ago

Its age doesn’t matter.... I agree that the UK has done some monstrous things but just because the US is young doesn’t mean it hasn’t squeezed outrageously horrible shit into those three centuries.

level 4

no, a lot of countries were forced to follow suit lest they'd be refused aid from the US. eventually the US pushed for the UN to make it a global phenomenon.

level 2

Not happening as long as they run the show.

level 1

"In addition to regular psychotherapy sessions, there are three times when participants randomly are given MDMA or a placebo during their inpatient therapy session. The patient doesn't know which one he/she received."

Oh, they definitely know if they got the placebo or not.

level 2

Yeah that part makes absolutely no sense. How could someone not tell if they got MDMA vs a placebo lol

level 3

The point is that the patient is not notified if it’s a placebo or not, so that any effects can be assured to be due to the actual medication instead of just the placebo effect.

level 4
0 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

Yup we know this, double blind studies are done all the time, and they make a lot of sense with other drugs or approaches that are subtle. If you got placebo then you might think you got mdma, if you aren't a drug user. But if you got mdma then you will know, which completely beats the idea of placebo, where the subjects are not supposed to know if they got the active ingredient or not. Really ironic and stupid, but it has to be done i guess.

level 3

Without it the research is futile if there’s no exactly identical control to compare it to. I work in pharma research, it’s strange but there are strict rules in research.

level 4

Could compare against normal amphetamine. They are similar enough for most not to know the difference.

level 5

Again, that’s not how research works in this particular phase, that would be a phase 3 study

level 5

The people who are downvoting you do not know as much as they think they do. In fact, what you suggested is actually an excellent solution that is employed in other trials in slightly different ways. While it applies less to Phase II trials it would be an issue in a double blind randomized controlled trial.

I work in pharma research as well and what you are suggesting would be considered a sham treatment or an ‘active’ placebo. This is done in trial of things like capsaicin patches where the effect of the drug would be obvious and compromise the double blind. It’s still a fairly young concept but it is absolutely used and the other posters are incorrect. In the case where they opted to use another treatment for PTSD instead of placebo that would be called an active comparator.

In fact, a trial is at risk of having the blinding compromised if they don’t include some sort of sham, which could bias the results. However, the results would be biased in favor of the treatment and that is a fact they may be alright with.

Source: I work at a pharma company that specializes in placebo response reduction.

level 5
3 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

But all you prove with that is an effect compared to amphetamine, not compared to nothing. Just imagine amphetamine equally helps with PTSD as MDMA. Research shows no significant positive difference in using MDMA for PTSD compared to amphetamine. Conclusion: mdma doesnt help with ptsd. See the problem? Thats why stuff always needs to be compared to nothing.

level 6

Sure to begin with.

level 3

so what they did is gave them a very little dose vs. the full dose

level 2

In fairness if they never tried it before, they might chalk up any perceived effects to being from MDMA even if they had the placebo

level 3

Agreed. However, if they get the real MDMA, there will be no doubt in their mind as to whether or not it was a placebo. I understand that they do this kind of thing in all scientific studies to make them consistent. I just know from my experience with the drug there is never a question as to whether it is bunk or not.

level 1
143 points · 1 month ago

Legal mdma coming soon 😈

level 2
81 points · 1 month ago

My body is ready

level 3

Make me your bitch molly 😉

level 3
39 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

your seratonin receptors sure arent. im all about legalizing drugs but molly is the last shit id want for an everyday medication. the doses have to be super low bc that shit destroys your receptors

edit: lmao all you rollers chill out. defend your miracle drug all you want, you cant take it more than a couple times every couple months without frying your receptors. that was my point and im not wrong nor spouting wrong opinions lol. taking every couple months is fine and how i understand its going to be used.

level 4

your seratonin receptors sure arent. im all about legalizing drugs but molly is the last shit id want for an everyday medication. the doses have to be super low bc that shit destroys your receptors

edit: lmao all you rollers chill out. defend your miracle drug all you want, you cant take it more than a couple times every couple months without frying your receptors. that was my point and im not wrong nor spouting wrong opinions lol. taking every couple months is fine and how i understand its going to be used.

You're wrong to suggest it's being discussed as an everyday medication.

The whole idea is they do normal talk therapy sessions while rolling, which helps people come to terms with issues. They can discuss trauma while rolling, and it won't be a painful event because their brain's flooded with serotonin.

But hey, classic Reddit move, commenting on an article you didn't read!

level 5

and it won't be a painful event because their brain's flooded with serotonin

I thought it was worse? Like the mdma ramps up their emotions

level 6

Not from what I've read. The M makes it easier to access and discuss things, but they can discuss it without feeling so much pain

level 4

It's a once every 3 month medication.

level 5

That’s what I used to do. It eliminated my depression & anxiety. I’m now in recovery and have to be abstinent from all drugs and I legitimately have no clue how to treat my depression & anxiety. Antidepressants help but it’s not the same!

level 6

Good for you man, it can still work, but you need to practise self-control. Maybe you can try it again one day.

level 7

Lol I’ve been thinking the same thing. My doctor thinks I’m insane for suggesting controlled use of mdma and/or ecstasy. Apparently I’m having ‘irrational thoughts of controlled use’ & therefore relapsing in my thoughts and setting myself to relapse in full lol. Il strongly disagree as Molly has saved me from suicide attempts & a deep apathy that I otherwise could not shake. I think that’s a load of bull & it’s totally worth the risk. I’ll just be careful and try to be as safe about it as I can!

level 8

Depression/Anxiety/Suicidal Thoughs < MDMA/Psychedelics/Dissociatives

level 8

Don’t listen to them. They try to apply a one size fits all abstinence model onto everyone in recovery and it doesn’t work. I have an issue with opiates only. That’s not very common, your average addict will pick up almost any substance and overuse it but that’s not the case for me. I enjoy alcoholic beverages sometimes, but I don’t like to get drunk or do it very often. You just have to do what works for you. Do what they ask you until you’re out of their care, then do what you want. If it lands you back in trouble/rehab, you’ll know you were wrong and not to try it again. One thing to keep in mind, and it’s usually their number one argument, is that if a substance isn’t a problem for you, then why is it such a big deal for you to go without it for a while. I haven’t had any issues being compliant when asked to be so my doctors and recovery related care people are fine with it now.

level 4

I don't think anyone is advocating for daily MDMA.

level 4

I believe it would be very controlled and only be abled to be used under professional supervision such as therapist.

level 4

Lul imagine joining a conversation with nothing but a vague wrong opinion and just spouting it off like its worth something.

level 5
5 points · 1 month ago

And then ditching out quickly once you realise you're in over your head. That guy's a tool.

level 5
Comment deleted1 month ago(2 children)
level 6
11 points · 1 month ago

imagine going through someone’s post history when it’s completely irrelevant and unrelated to what they were talking about

level 6

Wait are you going onto a drugs subreddit and making fun of people for doing drugs? Jfc also /r/jobuds

level 4

The drug will be legal for therapy sessions only, which are controlled by professionals.I don't think a doctor would like to fry their patients brain

level 2

Decriminalized is the most realistic thing I would expect, and not soon.

level 2

It will still require a prescription. Anyone who thinks that mdma will be sold in stores is an idiot. It’ll probably be in the same category as adderall.

level 3

It literally says in the article that it is administered only in a clinical setting under strict supervision and with the accompaniment of a psychotherapist who can guide patients through the trip.

level 4

"I HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE BUT I FUCKING LVOE YOU SO MUCH! WHAT WAS I TALKING ABOUT AGAIN?"

level 3

Lol you’re so mad i love it

level 2
3 points · 1 month ago

it won’t be like that

level 2

Ligma

level 3

Sugma

level 2

Major difference between legalising it and using it medically

level 2
-10 points · 1 month ago(14 children)
level 3

Be gone THOT!

level 4
-5 points · 1 month ago(0 children)
level 5

Theyre literally in the process of using it for therapy. The next step is making it legal...

level 6

can't see it happening it was originally synthesized to deal with patients with psychosis why wasn't it legalised then?

level 7

Actually they used it for just about anyone who has had trauma in their life which is keeping them from living they life they deserve.

level 8

And they didn't know anything about it then. All they knew was that it helped in therapy. We know a lot more about it now then we did 30 years ago

level 9

They did lol. It was studied a lot back then. Also we now know mdma is safer than what we thought 30 years ago.

level 10

That's what I'm trying to say

level 7

It was lol, it was only criminalised in the 70s

level 7

$$$

level 6
0 points · 1 month ago

It’s not gonna be “legal” any more than oxy is legal. It’ll be Schedule II, and only used in controlled settings. You won’t be getting your MDMA script filled at CVS, so it’ll actually be even more restricted than medications like opiates.

level 7

That's still legal. I never said it was going to be for recreation man

level 8
3 points · 1 month ago

My bad

level 5

Cocaine is schedule 2.....

level 1

Use MAPS on your amazon smile purchases!

level 1

Duncan Trussell Family Hour Anyone??

level 2

Holla

level 1

everyone should read the book on recent American psychedelic research.

Its is number 13 on Amazon most read right now and it is great! "How to Change your Mind" by Michael Pollan.

level 1
8 points · 1 month ago

The first time I tried mdma was the night I found the strength to break up with my abusive ex and start healing from depression. I owe a lot to that drug.

level 1

Can someone mirror the article? I keep getting error 500 "Access forbidden".

level 2

Same!

level 1

Honestly I was assaulted by a close friend and took good quality ecstasy by myself the second night after it happened and I think that was the most helpful thing I could have done to come to terms with the situation. I cried for hours out of sheer gratitude for how many people had been so supportive of me immediately after and it definitely helped in the immediate aftermath.

level 1

Thats a yuuuge step for the usa

level 1

i can’t read the article for some reason, could someone sum it up shortly?

level 1

I did a personal interview with Dr. Mithoefer(PI for this study and many past) and his wife for part of my senior thesis in 2015.

He and his wife(and their dog, who participates in therapy) are great people that truly want to help others. He is one of the pioneers of modern MDMA psychotherapy research and has worked to spread it nationally and internationally. Truly a name to remember. One of the brave few that risked his reputation to provide patients with the treatment they deserve.

level 2

PS: MDMA psychotherapy is not enjoyable like when it is used recreationally. For starters, the dose used in psychotherapy for these studies is a fraction of a recreational dose(around 50-70mg if I remember)

Sometimes there will be some fun experiences(they use music and their dog to improve the mood if patients are having trouble), but for the most part it will be a very difficult experience. While it will be relieving, letting out the trauma you have endured is not a good time.

People in the comments act like this is an excuse to get high, but they are the reason it is hard to get MDMA to those that actually need it.

level 1

broooo this is maddd good for the drugs community as a whole. GG

level 2

Moreso great for the PTST community. Drugs are great but my fun takes a backseat to those who desperately need drugs and treatment just to live a good life.

level 3
-7 points · 1 month ago(1 child)
level 4

Think they were talking about those with ptsd that need drugs to help treatment, not you or us using drugs to have fun.

level 1

Is that a tesla?

level 1

The comments in this thread are proof MDMA can fry your brain. Recreational Molly users are apparently some of the stupidest drug users on Earth.

level 1
-2 points · 1 month ago

Join the army , then cliam I got PTSD . Get a prescription for molly.

level 2

U will never ever get a prescription. It will ONLY be used in therapy session supervised by a trainers psychatrist

level 3

Still, pharma grade molly bitch lol

level 4

I'm gonna climb trough that psychiatrists window and dip my wet finger in those bags haha

level 2

I just lurk on here but I hate people like you. I've met so many motherfuckers while in that would claim shit they don't have and then brag about it after they get percentages up on the way out.

level 3

Same. They give us all a bad name. PTSD isn't a joke, that shit can ruin your life.

level 2

Join the Navy instead, go to BUDS, and there ya have it. PTSD all day every day.

level 1
1 point · 1 month ago

ok

level 1

This is where the fun begins

level 1

Thank god

level 1

Finally!△!

level 1

Therapy never worked for me because I just can’t open up to people. I’d be more than willing to give MDMA assisted psychotherapy a try.

level 1

All I can think is, damn, that must good shit. The pills we got in Texas before it was scheduled were life-changing, probably it’s that good. I am way, way past any drug use but damn. LOL

level 1

I want the contents of that bag.

level 1

The link doesn't work

level 1

Great news

level 1

Yes it's me, the guy with PTSD

level 1
0 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

I’m curious to know where the FDA would get their MDMA from? Would they make it themselves to ensure complete purity or buy it illegally?

level 2

do you really have to ask? obviously they would buy it on the streets.

level 1

Hey I totally have PTSD hook me up

level 1

I might have PTSD can I start my treatment for a music festival over Labor Day weekend?

level 1

New study uses Methamphetamine to treat Depression

level 1
-7 points · 1 month ago(0 children)
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