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all 64 comments

[–]nobogui 9 points10 points  (4 children)

I've been thinking about this as well, and also about my lack of motivation to continue playing my level 100 character.

I thought about a system where at level 100, you gain "experience" towards being able to weight items more heavily drop rate wise. E.g., gain experience to level 101, you can add a 5% weight to a chosen item or slot (haven't decided which is better). Gaining experience to level 102 let's you weight an additional 10% towards an item or slot. Etc.

Once you find the item or slot, your experience is reset to 100 (but maybe keep a counter of how many times you've done this), and you can then weight a different item or slot once you've gained level 101 again.

Thoughts?

[–]_Duality_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is interesting and good. It makes farming trash mobs worthwhile. I just skip them entirely now and use them as teleport pads.

[–]cs_tiger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"hey mate, stop killing my teleport pads!" - I am definitely going to use that. thanks.

[–]Prankman1990 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This reminds me of the sweet-ass level system The World Ends With You had where you could intentionally lower your max level in order to increase drop chances, turning the game into a balancing act between staying strong enough to handle tougher fights but also making the drop chances of good items feel reasonable.

Obviously such a thing wouldn't really work in Grim Dawn (TWEWY was a JRPG and only max health was affected by your level), but your idea just reminded me a bit of it is all. Maybe even have it so you can set some vague parameters for the item. Like, searching specifically for a unique torso with +Poison% damage, or Poison Resist or such.

[–]JAB64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the throwback, loved that game

[–]Selphea 12 points13 points  (3 children)

A way to extract prefixes/suffixes would be nice, like gather X amount of Stonehide items to put Stonehide on a target item. Or use X amount of Searing Embers to add "of Scorching".

I do think it'd be nice to get a more targeted way to farm suitable items too. Doesn't need to be best in slot, just compatible with the build and around faction merchant level. Like if I'm running a Cold Spellbreaker, some kind of Cold Daggers with + to Sky Shard or Star Pact.

[–]roadrunnuh 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Man, your first idea is absolutely excellent. That would add really great facet in to character builds, and take just enough of the feeling of wasted time out of the equation

[–]Craino 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is one area where D3 had a great solution. That cube thing where you could extract abilities and store them was pretty cool.

[–]krell_154 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I support the first part (extracting prefixes). The second part would be a smart loot of a sort, and that I don't support.

[–]cs_tiger 18 points19 points  (10 children)

would be nice to have a challenge where you could ask for a specific item before. like a quest that takes a few hours to complete. you go to a npc. ask for an item and she sends you to finish a long ordeal and then get your requested item as reward.

playing 800 hours without completing any build sounds like a waste of time. where is the fun in that?

[–]jayteeez[S] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I've still had a lot of fun getting to this point, haven't regretted much. All my characters have finished ultimate AoM and you can definitely build strong, fun toons from a mish mash of legendaries, epics, MIs etc. But it's that final sweet feeling of completing a min-maxed build centred around a strong purple set that evades me. First world problems, I guess.

[–]_Duality_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The joy of attaining full gear is a clear end-game goal for Grim Dawn. You have 16 characters from 94-100. I just have one. And yet I haven't maxed her out yet. I spent today spending 15 Skeleton Keys and a little farming here and there and amassed 42 Aetherial Missives. I was like, "Maybe today is my lucky day." I had seven rolls on top of what I killed the whole day including the past weeks. I still don't have my set shoulders. I'm pretty bummed and burned out. I probably won't touch this game for a few weeks.

This game releases dopamine sure. But after a while, it empties out when you no longer have tangible rewards or upgrades. It thus becomes a chore especially frustratingly so when your last item is tantalizingly close.

/u/Zantai, don't get me wrong, I love your game and have bought it for friends even. But please do consider the feedback in this thread moving forward. Thank you.

[–]labrat611 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Commenting to say that I hope crate addresses this before I get to the point you guys are at. I've only just over 200 hours in the game on a single character, so I am no there yet. The game is still fun, but I hope I can finish this character without having to spend more than 400 hours.

[–]cs_tiger 3 points4 points  (0 children)

me too. I have fun playing even with not finished builds. As long as I can "smash". But it also feels a little bit unsatisfying that due to RNG you have to play like 5000+ hours to get everything you want. What I just mean is that after you have put a lot of effort into the game there should be a possibility to get rewards without any more chance.

On the other side you could do above yourself. Like: I will complete all 3 rogue dungeons 3 times and then I reward myself with an item I do need. its cheating but it does not feel like cheating.

I don't know. It's hard to explain what I mean.

PS: I did put like 1800 hours into D3 and threw everything away in anger (deleted all chars, never to go back to D3 again). Not sure how I will feel after like 1000 hours in GD if I am still missing some important pieces...

[–]krell_154 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think this is actually a pretty good idea. But I'd add this - the more challenges of this type you complete, they should get harder. It could function as a decent form of endgame.

[–]cs_tiger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

that is a valid point. to not be able to redo this quest 100 times easily they should get harder every time you do them.

[–]alexkalinin 2 points3 points  (3 children)

that feels like it would be waaay too easy to make perfect geared characters

[–]cs_tiger 1 point2 points  (2 children)

if you want to you could always cheat them anyway. there is no competition in this game (ladder or such). but to have a legit way to do it instead if playing 5000+ hours should be possible. I mean there are players who have lives beside GrimDawn. Not everyone is a streamer who can play 100 hours a week...

[–]alexkalinin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah but now ult skeleton key dungeon bosses have a guaranteed legendary. So farming legendaries is already a lot more consistent

[–]cs_tiger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but you get mostly stuff that you do not need. that does not change the base issue.

[–]Northanui 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I have around 500-600 hours spread out arond 5-6 lvl 94+ characters and the only two sets I have completed are the Dark One (which is farmable, I recently learned) and Dagallons armor, which is indeed a random drop, but I guess they did line up and i found all 4 pieces.

However, immediately after i learned you can farm the dark one i made a build around it thinking it would be godly. It wasn't. My non set magehunter using random shit is still stronger in a lot of respects than my vitality damage Dark one occultist, who I thought was going to be godly simply because they have a set.

And dagallons seems so mediocre I haven't even made a build around it yet even though i do have the full non-farmable set.

My point is yes sets are nice and some MAY be godly (though idk which ones really) but a lot of times you can make equally strong or even better characters just around random items.

As for not getting mindwarp... i agree with you it would be nice if they added at least more subcategories for sure.

[–]jayteeez[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Ah, I didn't even know that about the Dark One set, nice one. You've just given me a small goal to go for and agreed, after inspection, that set is very underwhelming. Still, I like the direction this is heading - 3 legendary sets now farmable and hopefully we'll see more in the future.

[–]Northanui 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Wait 3? Dark, krieg, and what's the third?

[–]Henoros 1 point2 points  (1 child)

He may be referring to the Lokarr set, it is legendary and farmable though not useful for endgame.

[–]DarkenLord 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's also Alkamos' set (2 rings). Those can be useful in the endgame.

[–]DarkenLord 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Alkamos' Rings are also a farmable set of 2 pieces. http://www.grimtools.com/db/itemsets/106

[–]Xervous_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair warning to all readers they have a 1% droprate apiece

[–]arkiverge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It will be a small goal I'm afraid. You can farm it in less than an hour usually.

[–]Julzjuice123 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Would you mind telling me where I could farm the Kriegs set?

I didn't even know this was a thing...!

[–]jayteeez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

http://www.grimtools.com/db/itemsets/125 The items drop from Terrnox, Fleshweaver Krieg and Valaxteria. All these guys hand out in Malmouth.

[–]sentimentalwhore 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Either that or an upgrade way to transform the 200 pre-xpac useless mindwrap I already have.

[–]Stuff_i_care_about 3 points4 points  (0 children)

800 hours and not one complete end game character... Fffffgfggggg that. I like the game and enjoy playing it. To have an 800+ hour time gate on content I want to experience is not a reasonable time sink for me. I hate using trainers but that seems like the only way I can get to use a set in this game.

[–]JAB64 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's kind of a shame, isn't it? Personally I have put in 300+ hours into the game, also never completed an end-game set. So, all the design put in, it doesn't see much use. It should be seen as a problem, because without trading you aren't going to get a set unless you farm ungodly amounts of hours - but you want to use sets! Maybe there's a middle ground to be found between how easy it is to get sets in Diablo 3 and how you can obtain them in GD.

[–]Shrukn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hate sets in GD because it forms a certain way of thinking 'i need this set to finish xx build' which is can be true for certain skills - however you can usually make up the final piece with other +skill items and you are then potentially missing only a proc which some arent that great anyway or have been nerfed

I made a '5' Mortar Trap Elementalist (only 4 traps atm missing Mythical amulet and belt swap to (Beronath Scales) and Dagallon set is 'supposed' to be Mortar Trap based but its shit (except the Helmet) so I used 3/4 Light's Defender set (4/4 Light's gives a nice 'totem' skill which I lose out on) just for the passive bonus for some Stun Jacks bonus - but the main part of the build is a MI book from Terrnox - this character doesnt even need a set - http://www.grimtools.com/calc/DV95yynV

I also made an Infiltrator using Runes and only used 2 piece Mageslayers just for the passive bonus, my main attack Rune of Hagarrad I was still able to get to 25/16 with a glove I didnt have yet

[–]Crazy4Swift 2 points3 points  (6 children)

In my case I've gotten almost all of my sets from crucible gladiator farming. Since Crate has a "drop protection" to diminish the chance of a repeated drop in the same session when I want to farm I leave the same crucible session open and paused when I have to go to work or whatever and then just go back to it and keep farming.

Not the most optimal way if you want to be able to turn off your PC but I found that it works.

[–]Weyu_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same here, sometimes I have the same instance on for over a week.

[–]_Duality_ 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Since Crate has a "drop protection" to diminish the chance of a repeated drop in the same session

Is this true? God damn, this changes things.

[–]Crazy4Swift 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Yep, I don't remember if Zantai posted it on reddit , on the official forums or both. He did remarked that it doesn't mean you can't get the same legendary twice (you can) but each time the same one drops in the same session the chances of it dropping again diminishes.

[–]_Duality_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I guess I have to farm all the areas now lmao.

[–]Crazy4Swift 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Or farm rogue-like dungeons?

[–]_Duality_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what I did :)

[–]Tarnac666 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well it seems my Blacksmith is actually a Haberdasher since I don't have any chest, shoulder, leg, hand, or feet recipes for legendaries. But I have like literally 10 helm ones.

[–]Ahhmyface 2 points3 points  (10 children)

The game appears to be designed around playing multiple characters and sharing items between them... or trading in multiplayer.

There's no way a single toon is going to find every piece for a top tier set.

[–]Julzjuice123 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Yes... I think that's pretty much what OP is saying and complaining about, lol.

Not really sure about the point you're trying to make here.

[–]Ahhmyface 0 points1 point  (7 children)

That it is not an accident. It isn't something that needs a fix. It is by design.

[–]Julzjuice123 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Well, that's your opinion and OP is voicing his. We all know Grim dawn is meant to be played with lots of alts. That's not the issue at hand here.

I too believe that not being able to complete one end game set after 486 hours of play is rediculous.

[–]Ahhmyface 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Yup. I'm not silencing anyone.

If you feel that way it's pretty easy to trade. I have 3 level 100 max geared characters. I can count on one hand how many full sets I've found. About 50% drops, 50% trades.

[–]Julzjuice123 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I don't want to have to trade. GD is a single player game.

I shouldn't even have to think about trading. In GD there's no difference between trading and just giving yourself the item with Grim Dawn Stash.

And I don't cheat.

[–]Ahhmyface -1 points0 points  (3 children)

lol

Ok man. You want to draw arbitrary rules for yourself that's your business. The game is not purely single player. Hence why you can load the same characters in both modes. Trading is not the same thing as cheating, it is an in game feature. And you need to find something good to trade for something good. Don't believe me? Go try to trade for a stonehide of kings with a bunch of common legendaries.

But you really can't expect the developers to balance around one random guys silly interpretation of how the game ought to be played.

[–]Julzjuice123 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yea, you're right. My bad, man.

Grim Dawn is balanced around multiplayer trade.

Jesus hahaha! Grim Dawn is a single player game first and foremost. They don't give a rats ass about the multiplayer which is totally fine by me. Don't try to make it sound like balancing the game's loot system around single player is silly and I'm in minority here hahaha!

You're the minority who trades for his items. A tiny, tiny minority. 99% of the player base is single player.

And I'm the odd one, lmao!

[–]Ahhmyface 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nah man. You're the odd one out because I'm assuming the game is meant to be played the way the developers designed and you're butt hurt they didn't know about your imaginary rules

[–]Julzjuice123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, yes ok. Grim Dawn is tailored for multiplayer play.

End of discussion, you're right. Developers clearly intended people to trade to finish sets.

You got it all figured out.

[–]cs_tiger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that is interesting. because the main target of the game is single player. I would not even dare to play hardcore in multiplayer. too many "game out of sync deaths" when not hosting the game.

also what does it matter when the last set items on your wishlist never drop no matter what goon you play?

[–]davidonger 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I HAVE 700 HOURS AND ONE LEVEL 100

[–]Deizez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Leveling from 90 to 100 takes like one evening but gear upgrades take 800 hours +

[–]Tarnac666 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I have been a GD player since early beta and while I would love to have a set I find that one of the things that I enjoy about the game is the fact that I don't feel like I have to rely on getting those set items. D3 makes it so common place that it just becomes farming better versions. My blacksmith has a ton of legendary helmets that he can make which makes me aware of sets that can be gotten. Which also does cause some confusion for me as I haven't researched where the rest of the pieces can be obtained. I feel that GD has retained more of that mystery that D3 lost. There are always hidden areas to find and new recipes to discover.

[–]Laearric 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thing is, all those recipes or pieces that you're missing are totally random drops. They don't come from some particular area that you'll need to discover or farm. No research is required, just farming anywhere and hoping for the best.

[–]cs_tiger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thats true. you can really have fun to play the game without finishing a build. you can play ultimate without BiS items in every place. true. but if you WANT to finish a character with all nessessary items this is really hard. like OP says. playing for endless hours and not have even 1 build finished is unsatisfying.

[–]Trance2000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why don’t you just trade for it?

I’ve only ever been able to complete builds fully via trading.

[–]beecostume 1 point2 points  (2 children)

One man's trash is another man's treasure. There is a built-in trade UI in the game. Join the discord, post in the trade threads in the official forums. Use the tools given to you when you don't have the item you need. Plan ahead. Save your crafting mats, your precious dynamite. Have a late/mid-game set item you're never going to use? I promise you someone else is looking for it. Use that to your advantage. Sometimes the thing you need just isn't going to drop and that's ok. They've already drastically increased the opportunity to find legendaries. There are even guaranteed drops for the more adventurous of us. Any further refinement feels like less of a game and more of a loot box simulator.

[–]Craino 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Admittedly I play almost exclusive solo, so forgive what may be a dumb question - but where in game is the built-in trade UI you're talking about?

[–]beecostume 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In multiplayer if you right click their icon a trade option is available.

[–]Tiramisaur 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Join the discord, get involved with the community, play together and trade. It's half the fun. =)

[–]cs_tiger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got into the discord channel (? correct term) sometimes. not very much up there. perhaps its the timezone? are those in discord mostly US? (CET in the evening it feels mostly dead)