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Stickied postModerator of r/MakingaMurderer

Please ask any questions about the documentary, the case, the people involved, Avery's lawyers etc. in here.

Discuss other questions in earlier threads. Read the first Q&A thread to find out more about our reasoning behind this change.

Stickied postModerator of r/MakingaMurderer

Please ask any questions about the documentary, the case, the people involved, Avery's lawyers etc. in here.

Discuss other questions in earlier threads. Read the first Q&A thread to find out more about our reasoning behind this change.


Steve burning the van seat, which was in the Dassey garage (or just outside of it) for a bonfire is very suspicious.

Steve burned six tires, brush, garbage, a van seat and a wood cabinet. The tires and brush would have been enough for a huge bonfire.

The fact that Teresa's bones were in that fire pit and Steve collecting those extra items to produce a larger, longer fire makes sense. He had to burn a body that night.

The fabric on the van seat was highly flammable (stated at the trial). Why bother collecting all these other things just for a bonfire? Using the golf cart to drive around the Dassey property to collect items for the bonfire was not necessary if what he was trying to achieve was just a bonfire for an hour or so.

If his goal was to clean-up the yard (Brendan's statement), then why leave the burned car seat by the fire pit? If cleaning up the yard was the goal then why leave the rake, shovel, hoe and other tools lying around?

The van seat served to help burn the body faster and hide the body.

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I've seem it mentioned quite a few times that some Avery supporters dont expect Steven to have any success in his motion for relief until it gets to a federal court.


While I am not a lawyer, and took business law over 15 years ago, I'm fairly sure that a state decision cannot be appealed to a federal court except for extremely limited circumstances. Things like contradicting state and federal laws, or questions of jurisdiction may be appealable to a federal court.


I believe the only way for Steven to get to a federal court would be to submit a habeas writ. Which could be done at any time.


So for those thinking that a federal court is going to overturn judge AS's decision, prepare to be disappointed.


Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and could be wrong.


This internet myth is unsupported by the evidence.

Let's see if we can come up with a list of evidence not "found" by MTSO and used as evidence at the trials.

By "not found" we mean independent of MTSO and through a third party.

  1. The RAV4 was discovered by two civilians, the Sturm mother and daughter.
  2. A fireman Brandes found the RAV4 plates.
  3. Steven Avery's blood in the Rav4 was found by the Wisconsin State Crime Lab (who did the work on DNA that freed Avery last time round).
  4. The discovery of the disconnected battery was made by a forensic blood splatter expert Stahlke.
  5. Wisconsin DCI agent Heimerl discovered the two bullet fragments.
  6. Bullet wounds to Teresa Halbach's skull discovered Stier and Eisenberg and supported by medical examiner Jentzen of Milwaukee County.
  7. Phone record evidence was given by a sworn-in telecommunications tech Zimmerman along with the Hidden ID calls.
  8. Barb found Brendan's bleach stained jeans and witnessed the fire on Halloween night.
  9. Steven admitting to having a fire is from prison phone records.
  10. Records from Auto-trader with no mention of "Steven Avery" and just Barb Janda.
  11. Brother-in-law to Earl Avery Fabian witnessing plastic smell from barrel with Avery around.
  12. Steven Avery's cut hand was filmed and aired by the media for his interviews.
  13. Ballistic analysis was not MTSO and done by Newhouse.
  14. FBI LeBeau did the EDTA test.
  15. Jodi testified that Avery had change around furniture.
  16. Steven phone Jodi and told her he was cleaning up with Brendan.

Feel free to add more as I edit this up.


Given that Steve was raping his brothers daughter (Steve's niece), it is possible that his brother held ill will towards him (you would think). His brother is also a known and convicted sexual deviant. He was also on the ASY on October 31st with a weapon supposedly hunting rabbits and admitted to being near the Rav4 that friday firing another weapon. He even asked Steve about the photographer on the 31st, so he knew she was coming out there.

I don't see much thought given to him by the sleuthers, is this because his motive for framing Steve would be tied to Steve raping his niece which isn't something sleuthers want to admit was happening?


For example, let's say I believe LE planted TH's bones. Would it be easier for me to accept this scenario if I just questioned why they charged SA with murder when DNA wasn't completed? Or would writing out my theory, providing the evidence, and debating the facts cause me to realize I'm right/wrong?


If what is being said about one of the Avery jurors is true, are the jurors more victims of Kratz and companys corruption? Were they pushed to "compromise" instead of voting their conscience? And what's with Remiker's having someone bring the jurors pizza and not log it in?

Comments: On Monday April 23, 2007 administration was notified about an incident of a sequestered jury being exposed to an outside person against the presiding judges: orders.

On Saturday April 21, 2007 .......... and Detective Remiker were the officers in charge of the jury and responsibility of upholding the guidelines provided by the judge along with guidelines provided by ....... Further investigation indicated that ....... allowed her husband into the secured area of the jury to deliver pizza and obtain drinks. This unauthorized person was on the secured area on and off from 2100hrs till after 0030hrs.

Detective Remiker had no prior knowledge of the arrival of this unauthorized into the secured area of the jury. It is understood that Detective Remiker was not fully aware of the movements of this unauthorized person and that his movements were more controlled by .......... but Detective Remiker was aware of his presence at certain times.

A review of the log book indicates that neither .......... nor Detective Remiker logged this unauthorized person in the log book during this time frame. When a jury is sequestered it is done for security reasons to make sure the jury is not prejudiced by any outside influences. This action taken by the court is very serious and a great amount of trust is placed in the officers working the security detail. While in this case it appears clear that the jury was not influenced by this unauthorized person. The act of allowing the unauthorized person within the jury holds more with .........., but the failure to log this visit is the responsibility for both officers.

In this incident Detective Remiker should have used better judgment hy logging in the visit and knowing that this type of visit could cause risk to the jury integrity.

In the future , should you engage in any conduct that violates internal departmental policies or any fed eral, state, or local laws, you may be subject to disciplinary action appropriate to the nature and frequency of the conduct. Such disciplinary action may include oral or written warnings, suspension or discharge.


He didn't die or go into hiding - at least a photo he presumably put on a networking site is still there.

But he did write a crucial but weirdly time-travelling report about initiating/co-ordinating the examination of the burn pit on the afternoon of Nov 8th

Additionally Sippel who was called at pretrial August 2006 was not asked about this by Kratz (edit: only about his SA property boundary security duties) and then

ATTORNEY BUTING: No questions.

Must have had Sippel's CASO report by then?

Must have had Jost's MTSO report by then?

DCI Sturdivant had stated at pretrial back in December 2005 about Jost pointing out a red-flagged item to him near the burn pit, though doesn't exactly agree that Jost said to him that it was a bone fragment. Sturdivant entirely omits mentioning Sippel, with Kratz objecting when he might have been forced to by a further question. Sturdivant through three testimonies omits him, and in three testimonies is ambiguous about the timings for him and partner DCI Strauss.


Back when making a murderer first came out I created an online facebook research group. We were pretty much just a small branch of like minds from the original main family support facebook page. I first watched making a murderer within the first day or two it was on netfilx, and binge watched the entire thing within 1 night and couldn't help but research as much as i could, as this is what i do when i'm bored.

fast forward a few days or so one of my members messages me and tells me he's been in contact with a juror and forwards me his PM's and the original thread he was talking to him in. The thread that started the conversation. ( red = juror / blue = research member) IMAGE 1 from conversation 2 from the conversation IMAGE 3 from the conversation

After talking with my research member, we came to the conclusion to forward the information to Buting and Strange.

after a day i get a message from my research member that the juror told him to watch the today show.

The jury was comprimised. no question.

I have not shared these with anyone before, besides family and close friends so I have redacted the names.

Maybe this will help other jurors to come forward. What was the compromise??

Edit: I see the shillery is high in here. If one juror feels this way, others might as well.


Halbach murder. ... Avery was arrested and charged with Halbach's murder, kidnapping, sexual assault and mutilation of a corpse on November 11, 2005. He had already been charged with a weapons violation as a convicted felon. Halbach murder. ... Avery was arrested and charged with Halbach's murder, kidnapping, sexual assault and mutilation of a corpse on November 11, 2005. He had already been charged with a weapons violation as a convicted felon.


How did MCSO or CCSO know who was in the fire pit, when the bones were not tested until December, the bones were found on the ninth,Steven was charged on the eleventh,It could have been anyone, you just don't look at the bones and say yep that's Teresa!!! What did they do flip a coin, I think it's called putting the cart before the horse, in my book anyway!!!



This post is to provide you with redacted links to the landline records provided through a FOIA request for Teresa's home number shown in CASO. In addition, I am providing a link to a detailed report that I created which lists the calls and provides pertinent information from the records.

Please note the following:

  1. The records appear to be the backup used by Lt. Sippel to call people on the morning of November 4. The records exactly match his report, which can be found in the CASO report on pages 35-37.

  2. The findings of his calls to these phone numbers are located on pages 35-37 of the CASO report.

  3. 4 months of bills are missing. Those are statements that would have printed/mailed on: March 22, 2005, May 22, 2005, July 22, 2005, and October 22, 2005 (eta - also a 5th bill is missing and would have printed/mailed on November 22, for the prior period.)

  4. The records demonstrate that Teresa never used this landline to contact or fax Auto Trader during the periods provided - at least not at their 414 area code.

  5. Teresa did call fax numbers from this landline, but none are to a 414 area code.

  6. I provided a link below to the only Auto Trader lead form (in evidence) that occurred during one of the months of the records provided - that date was August 18. The fax was received by Auto Trader from Teresa at 4:12 pm. However, that call is not shown within the landline records provided. The closest call occurred at 4:25 PM and was to a residence, not Auto Trader. For convenience, as a reminder, we have confirmed, using Dedering's test fax obtained through a FOIA, that Teresa's machine was set to a 24 hour time as opposed to AM/PM and was off by 12 hours until October 30, when the clocks rolled back. 4:12 on the 8/18 fax to AT equals 4:12 am, but, using the 24 hour setting, the real time was 4:12 PM.

Below are the links and explanation of the records:

Link to August 18th fax to AT from Teresa:

Link to the detailed compilation/report I created for the landline records:

1-22 through 2-21, page 3:

1-22 through 2-21, page 4:

2-22 through 3-31, page 3:

2-22 through 3-31, page 4:

4-22 through 5-21, page 3:

6-22 through 7-21, page 3:

8-22 through 9-21, page 3:

9-22 through 10-21, page 1:

9-22 through 10-21, page 3:


Not sure how many of you are aware of this but there is actually a political campaign for "The Barbara Tadych Law" initiated by none other than Barbara Tadych. While the cause is commendable (and I do recommend if you believe in the cause to sign it) Barbara IMO has made this all about her and it's just wrong. This law should clearly put the attention on her son and other's in the same situation. If it's going to be named after anyone it should be called "The Brendan Dassey Law" however, I don't get the impression he would want that type of attention and irregardless of that I believe it should be called the "Juvenile Interrogation Protection Law". I question her motives with this campaign as there are t-shirts and the like for sale to support her petition. So unless the funds are fully going to that cause it's a sham. Equally important is why was she not campaigning for juvenile's rights like 10 years ago? She is clearly capitalizing off the fame she and her son have received due to the documentary.

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People on here seem to think Avery's jail buddy is telling the truth (even though he says Avery told him he removed the battery cables and the report says MTSO did). So who believes Kratz's rape victim? Tell me what parts of her story don't check out.

On Tuesday, October 19, 2010, at approximately 11:00 a.m., Special Agents Kyra M. Schailhorn and Joann M. Joy interviewed , DOB: , ., cellular telephone number VICTIM's probation agent, , telephone number , had previously contacted DCI about REDACTED's wanting to provide information about Calumet Countv District Attorney Kenneth Kratz.

VICTIM had recently come forward to with information that Kratz had come to her residence seeking a sexual relationship. was interviewed regarding her contact with Kratz, and she provided the following information:

It should be noted that throughout the interview, VICTIM was visibly upset.

She was crying and shaking while talking about this matter. VICTIM kept stating that she had done something wrong, and she questioned whether she would be going to prison for it. further stated that she has and , and she is on medication for these. stated that she was addicted to the prescription medications and at the time of her contact with Kratz, but she has since gone through rehabilitation for those addictions. VICTIM first met Kratz five years ago when she got in trouble for shoplifting.

Kratz was the DA on her case, and he charged it out. said Kratz never did anything inappropriate to her at that time. said the next contact she had with Kratz was between Thanksgiving and

Christmas in 2009 when Kratz called her on her cell phone. said this contact was "out of the blue," and has no idea how Kratz had her phone number. Kratz told that he and his wife were getting a divorce, and he wanted to talk to her about things, gave Kratz her address, and he went to her apartment. lived at , in an apartment

When Kratz was at VICTIM's apartment, he told her that he knew everything about her, and if she did not listen to him, he could "get her jammed up." Kratz talked about how he was into bondaqe. He said he ties women up, they listen to him, and he is in control. stated that Kratz wanted her to engage in bondage with him. She said he instructed her to give him a "blow job," and she did. VICTIM stated that she was afraid Kratz would "jam her up" with something. He had said that he knew everything about her, and did not know what that meant. said that Kratz had "such seniority" over her, and it was really scary. was asked if she had done anything illegal, and she said she had not done anything in Calumet County other than the shoplifting five years prior. VICTIM said she did not know what Kratz meant, but she did not want to take the chance. stated that the blow job happened on her couch, and she was bent over Kratz. She said Kratz held her hands behind her back. VICTIM said Kratz also clamped her mouth shut to swallow with his hands. stated that Kratz was very strong.

VICTIM stated that, while Kratz was still at her apartment, she went to the bathroom and puked. After Kratz left, she "puked her brains out" and stayed in bed for about a week. VICTIM stated that she had been raped when she was 16, and she said "this feels a lot like it."

While Kratz was at VICTIM's apartment, he had five Miller Genuine Draft beers and cheese and crackers that she offered him. Kratz told that he was surprised she was such a lady and had such good taste. He told her she was a good hostess. VICTIM stated that Kratz called her 40-50 times after this incident, but she would not take his calls. She said he came to her apartment a couple of times, but she pretended she was not home. VICTIM stated that she and Kratz had spoken on the phone four or five times before he came over to her apartment. She said they talked about his divorce, bondage, other women, and how the other women would follow his directions. VICTIM stated that Kratz told her, "I know everything about you. I can make trouble for you." VICTIM did not know what Kratz, meant by that, and she thought he could make something up. VICTIM said she had been guilty of things in the past. VICTIM said she did not know the phone number she used at the time of this incident. She said she was using a friend's telephone, and she believed the friend had Verizon cell service. VICTIM said the Police Department would have the phone number because she had made a complaint to them at the time. This complaint was not about Kratz but was about a different matter, stated that she was very ashamed of what she did. Speaking of Kratz, she stated, "He's a pig. What he did was wrong."

VICTIM stated that there was one other time she had met Kratz in his office. She said this was when she had been beat up by her boyfriend, who was charged. had met with the victim witness person for Calumet County, and she had run into Kratz at that time. Kratz told she was looking well, and it was good to see her. was asked if Kratz knew where she lived, and she told him she had to tell him where she lived. She said she was "so scared—I thought I was in trouble." stated that she had told three people about this incident with Kratz—her probation agent, the man she is currently seeing and a girlfriend, was asked more specific questions regarding her contact with Kratz, and she stated the following: was asked if Kratz had touched her, and she said he had "grabbed her boobs" and pulled her hair. said Kratz touched her breasts under her clothing, and she was "a fool to have let him."

VICTIM stated that, when Kratz had talked about bondage, he said he did not know if would be a good submissive partner because she could talk. VICTIM stated that she told Kratz she felt uncomfortable, but she did not tell him to stop. She stated, "He scared me. He can be a very intimidating man." was asked again to recall the events of the night Kratz was at her apartment, and she provided the following detail:

Kratz called on the phone, and then came to her apartment, which was apartment # , VICTIM offered Kratz a beer and cheese and crackers. Kratz was wearing a gray suit. He talked about his divorce and how he was stressed out.

He said things were not working out with his wife, and he was moving into another woman's house,

Kratz told VICTIM to close the blinds, and she did. VICTIM said it was probably 6:30 or 7:00 p.m. VICTIM was not sure what day of the week it was.

Kratz talked to about being submissive and being dominant. He said that the man was dominant and would tell the woman what to do, and he asked if she would be willing to be submissive to him. told Kratz she did not think she would be good at being submissive because she talks a lot. Kratz continued to tell what he did with women and how he takes control. He said the women have to listen to him or he hits them. Kratz spoke about a room he has where he ties women up. Kratz called the room something specific, but did not recall what he called it. does not know where this room is located. said Kratz gave her an order to give him a blow job. She said he told her to ask his permission to give him a blow job, and she did. Kratz then put his hands behind 's head. said that she had to unzip Kratz's pants. She said he gave her instructions and told her what to do the whole time. stated that she felt disgusted with herself at the time. She said she had never known what the term "crack whore" meant until then, but that is what she felt like. stated that she was emotional and very upset at the time, but she "tried to put on a face so she didn't get in trouble." While Kratz was at her apartment, continued to get him more beers, and he had four or five of them. did not drink with Kratz. stated that, during the sex act, Kratz called her a bitch. He said, That's how you do it, bitch. VICTIM said Kratz was telling her how to be submissive and how to learn. She said he had all the power and all the control. She again said Kratz held his hands over her mouth to make her swallow. VICTIM said she pretended to enjoy the sex act at the time, but then she threw up afterward. She said that, when Kratz left, he made it seem like she was not good enough.

After the sex act, Kratz stayed at the apartment and drank three more beers.

He asked how felt about being submissive, and she said she could not do it. Kratz also talked about his wife and how she did not want to be with him anymore. VICTIM said Kratz talked about wanting her dressed in black leggings and high heels and about how he wanted her to play the submissive role. Kratz wanted to have her hair down and her contacts in. He asked if she had anything else to wear (such as a teddy).

After this night, Kratz kept calling and leaving her voice and text messages. In the messages he asked why she was not answering and told her to call him back right away. said Kratz sent text messages such as, "I'll be at your house in 15 minutes." said that Kratz did come to her apartment a few times, but she hid in her closet and pretended she was not home. VICTIM said Kratz left her 50-60 texts and voice messages. She said "he scared the hell out of me." said Kratz left messages telling her that, if she did not contact him back, she would hear from him. He told her he knew everything about her, and there would be repercussions. VICTIM stated that she came forward with this information about Kratz because of the other women he did things to. She mentioned the woman on the media who wanted to go to law school, and she believed the woman should be allowed to go to law school.

Before ending the interview, S/A Schailhorn reread the contact information form filled out when PO had contacted DCI on 's behalf. On that form it was written that Kratz had put money on the counter for .

S/A Schailhorn asked about this exchange. VICTIM stated that, when Kratz left her apartment that night, he left $75 on the kitchen counter. did not see the money until after Kratz left. believed the money was given to her for what she did. When was not answering Kratz's phone calls, he asked if she wanted to give the money back to him. stated that Kratz became angry about the money, stating that it was a lot of money and wanting it back. Kratz said if VICTIM was not going to cooperate, he wanted the money back. stated that she donated the money to a church. VICTIM provided no additional information at this time, and the interview was concluded at approximately 12:15 p.m. The contact information form filled out when PO contacted DCI is attached to this report and made a part of this case file.

After the interview, S/A Schailhorn looked up information on .'s contact with the Calumet County District Attorney's office at the Wisconsin Circuit Court Access Program (CCAP) website. Information at the website showed that Kratz was the prosecuting attorney on two cases brought against in April and June 2006, for theft-false representation and retail theft. Kratz was also listed as the prosecuting attorney on a case brought against for disorderly conduct in December 2008. Other information available at the CCAP website showed that has had criminal cases brought against her in counties other than Calumet. She is currently facing charges in Outagamie County for petty theft (shoplifting), theft and bail jumping.


IS like saying a painter has no control over what they paint on a piece of paper, Ken is the drug addicted artist that painted Steven Avery's conviction, and he's so happy with it !!!


Because if they did, they would not be able to blackmail him into testifying against Steven Avery at his trial. this is how the Wisconsin justice system works if your name is Steven Avery !!!


Because it would have opened the door to many retrials, including Steven Avery's,

See how the law works in Wisconsin ,Ken Kratz walks free ,just to secure Steven's conviction!!!


but NONE of that in any way shape or form has any ability to ever change the fact that Avery's blood and/or non-blood DNA was found in numerous locations within Teresa's Rav4 that was found hidden on his family salvage yard parked right next to his old Jeep, and her burnt remains were found in his burn pit (near a burn barrel where her burnt electronics were found) where both he and Brendan initially lied (instead of giving each other an alibi for that night and before the remains were even found) about having a bonfire the evening she disappeared, behind the garage where a bullet was found with her DNA on it that was matched to have been fired from the gun that was hanging above his bed that he was illegally possessing as a rightfully convicted violent felon.


This is a throwback for newbies that may not have seen this when it originally came out back in 2016. Steven Avery allegedly confessed to another prisoner, here is the transcribed letter I was able to find through google:

[Transcribed verbatim, typos and all.]

To whom it may concern,

I am writting this and sending it to the newspapers to inform the public about what really happened in the murder case of Teresa Halbach involving Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey. All the information I am providing was confessed to me by Steve Avery while we were both incarcerated. I am asking nothing for this except that the public acknowledge the victim and her family by giving a donation to a church or shelter or your favorite charity. Hopefuly this will help in the decision for Brendan Dassey case also. I felt that the truth had to be brought out so there could be some kind of closure for the family and friends of Teresa. I didn't want to go any longer knowing all of this and not say anything. I have informed all the proper authorities regarding this information and now I want the public to know.

Sincerely yours,

Joseph W Evans Jr.


My name is Joe Evans, Jr. In September of 2009, I was tried and convicted in Marinette County, for the first degree intentional homicide of my wife and criminal damage to property. On December 1, 2009 I was sentenced to serve life in prison, without the possibility of extended supervision for my charge.

Around December 16, 2009 I was transfered from the Marinette County Jail, to the Dodge Correctional Institution, located in Waupun, WI. I was on A&E for roughly six weeks, then I was transfered to the Manitowoc County Jail, In Manitowoc, WI as a state inmate for a temporary placement, while waiting to be transfered to the institution that I would be transfered to when bed space was available.

Around mid June of 2010, I was transfered to the Wisconsin Secured Prison Facility (WSPF), located in Boscobel, WI.

After a couple of day's of being there is when I had met Steven Avery. It was during the outside recreation period, Steve was the recreation Aid at that time. He was standing behind a fenced in cage area for the rec worker by himself, so I went up to him, I told him that I had recognized him from the news coverage a few years earlier, I said to him jokingly that he looked taller on tv, then he did in person, then I had told him who I was and where I was from, Steve told me that he already knew who I was from the news coverage as well, and also from a couple other inmates that knew me as well by name only. Steve had asked me why in the hell did I call the police, to report that I had just shot my wife. I told him that I had called 911 seeking medical help for her, because she needed it, but the police ended up coming there as well.

Steve went on and said that I was still an idiot for calling them. We then talked about his case and some of the items that were used as evidence against him to connect him to the killing of Teresa Halback, out at Avery's salvage yard. I told him that he didn't seem all that smart as a criminal in the covering up the evidence in his crime, when he had killed that Teresa girl. Steve told me that he would had gotten away with it, if his idiot nephew of his "Brendan" would not have spoken to the police like he told him not to, especially when he never killed that bitch Teresa.

I told Steve that I had heard before that they both killed her, after the two of them rapped her. Steve said "that idiot kid came over when he called him to come over and help him out." I said to Steve, so you mean your nephew Brendan Dassey didn't kill her. I said then why in the hell did they convict him for killing Teresa. Steven said to me "only because the police tricked him into saying that he was involved in the killing." That's when I told Steve that he should tell the authorities that his nephew Brendan didn't kill her, and that it was only him who did it. Steve said to me "your fucking crazy, that kid is on his own, he shouldn't had spoken to the police."

I told Steve that in spite of my crime, I had turned my life over to GOD, and that I keep Christ Jesus in my heart, I told him how amazing I felt being a new Christian. I just felt so free from my past and all the wrongs that I've done throughout my life. I told Steve that if he wanted to repent from his sin for what he had done, then he needed to do what was right, and that was to inform Brendan's attorney and tell him the truth of what all happened.

Steve just laughed and went on to say that it was funny when he showed Brendan Teresa's vagina. Steve said that Brendan never had sex before with a female, and when he (Steven) had grabbed Teresa by a handful of her pubic hairs to lift her vagina up, so he could show Brendan it, and then released her and told Brendan that it was okay for him to have sex with her, and that she didn't mind. Steve said that I should have seen the look on that kids face, he felt like he was at a candy store. After a short time later we began to talk about search warrant's and what all the warrant must contain in it, and that it must also be signed by a judge and have a seal on it Steve said. I stayed there by Steven talking to him throughout the remainding rec period, which was almost two hours, then it was time to go back inside, so I told Steve that I'll see him around and we'll talk again then, we departed on a friendship level.

Throughout the next six months or so, Steve and I would have numerous conversasions about his case and even of my own. Steve and I seemed to have became friends, I think mainly because I was much more friendlier than most of the other inmates that were in there with us. I was also much easier to talk to as well and of course we were both closer in age and convicted of the same kind of crime. We would joke around with each other, I would alway's refer to him as "shorty" and ask when are we gonna go out to the bar for a drink, or I would ask him if I hadn't seen him in awhile if he was laid up in his cell drunk again. Steve would just laugh.

He would usually call me "old man", even though he's about five or six years older than I am. I think Steve was just trying to be my mentor and have someone that he could trust to talk with. Steve alway's felt like he was much smarter then me, mainly in the law crime knowledge, I think that was because of his past 18-20 years he had been in prison, I was just a newbe, trying to learn the law. Avery was an easy guy to talk to, but he didn't talk much to the other inmates, as he did with me I noticed. Maybe he just felt at ease wlth me because of my sense of humor I had, and that he felt that he coμld trust me as well with the things he would tell to me about his case and Dassey's and that I wouldn't say anything to anyone eise about what we would talk about.

At first I thought that Steve was just blowing smoke up my ass with some of the things he would say to me about his case, but after our many conversations he had together, they were all very much consisted to what he had said to me many times when we would talk. I almost felt like Steven Avery needed to get this off of his chest and out of his system and just talk to someone that he could trust. Regardless of our many conversasions we had together, I would alway's still say to him, "Steve, you know what you need to do to clear your guilt and also make things right with your nephew "Brendan" and that's telling the authorities the truth of what really happened and that Brendan did not have anything to do with killing that Teresa girl.

Steve would never do that, and he never would agree with my way of thinking, and he sure didn't care for me preaching to him about Jesus or GOD to him, or the things I would tell what he needed to do to come clean with his crime, and that he needed to stop blaming other people for what he did. Even though we didn't agree with eachother in those area's Steve and I still remain friends. I believe it was around the first part of 2011, mine and Steve's talks would be very limited to what we would talk about, he no longer wanted to talk about his case to me, mainly for the fact that netflex was starting to do a documentary on him and his case. Steve would alway's say to me, "if anyone should happen to talk to me about him or his case don't tell them nothing", and if anyone should ask what do we talk about, just say that we talk about the weather or about cars, but nothing about either one of our cases."

I would just tell him that he didn't have anything to worry about with me saying anything to anyone. Steve had told me that when he gets his case overturned, ha is sueing the State of Wisconsin and the City of Manitowoc for millions, and when he does he'll take care of me with some money to help me to pay off my restitution and to live in prison, I told him that I will hold him to that, but deep down inside of me I really didn't believe him on that part of him helping me out, if he got out of prison.

During some of our conversations, Steve would seem to have a lot of hatred for a brother of his for some reason. He claimed that his brother screwed him over on some money or property or something to that effect. Steve would alway's say that the police should have charged his brother with the crime and not him, even though Steve commited the crime himself. Throughout mine and Steven Avery's many of talks, this is what he had confessed to me as the actual truth about what he and his nephew Brendan Dassey done the day Teresa Halback was murdered, and how Steve himself killed her and why.

Steven Avery told me that he had seen Teresa out at the salvage yard before, he said that he had thought that Teresa would be an easy lay, because he didn't think that she was all that pretty or anything like that to him, but she did have a sexy bottom on her. He said that on the day he killed her, he had called up the auto trader magazine place that Avery's auto part salvage yard had used before to get Teresa to come back out there to the salvage yard, because he was trying to sell a vehicle. Steve said that was the only excuse that he could come up with to get her to come back out there so he could ask her to go out to dinner with him or for a few drinks at the tavern. He just mainly wanted to have sex with her. So after he made the call, later that afternoon Teresa finally showed up. Steve said that he had seen her pull up outside of his home and he went outside to meet her, to show her the vehicle he was selling, and while they were outside together he was putting on the old Steven Avery charm and flirting around with her. He said that when he had asked her out for dinner or drinks with him, she had refused his offers. Steve said then he had asked her to come inside of his home to go over the sale information of the vehicle. He said that when the two of them went inside of his home, they sat at the table in the kitchen talking, then he got up to go to the kitchen counter, that's when he grabbed a kitchen knife out of the draw and then grabbed Teresa by the back of her hair.

Steve said that he told her if she screamed or did anything stupid that he would kill her. He said that he had put the knife to Teresa's throat and walked behind her, holding her by her hair and the knife to her throat as he guided Teresa into his bedroom. Steve said that Teresa was crying and begging him not to kill her or hurt her, and when they got into the bedroom, he pushed her on to the bed and took a long sleeve shirt of his and tied her wrist to the bed and then removed her shoe's, then her pants and panties. Steve said that's when he had gotten on top of Teresa and inserted his finger's into her vagina, and after a short time, he had sex with her.

Steve would go on to tell me that Teresa just kept crying and begging him to stop, but then she started to scream for help because he wouldn't stop, Steve said that after he had ejaculated inside of Teresa, that is when he chocked her out until she was unconscious and looked lifeless, but wasn't sure at that point if she was actually dead or not. Steven stated that he then took a couple pairs of his socks and tied her ankles to the bed and then untied the shirt from her wrist and took Teresa's jacket, shirt and bra off of her. Steve said that he had ended up cutting her bra off of her. Steve said that he had ended up cutting her bra off of her, then tied her arms back to the bed. He said that while Teresa was just laying there, he had sex with her over and over, then untied her and turned her over on to her stomach and proceeded to sodomized her.

Steve said that he had Teresa in the bedroom performing his sexual acts to her for a good hour and a half, then he chocked her somemore, just to make sure that Teresa was dead. Steve said that he had punched her in the face a couple of times just to make sure that she wasn't alive, then he got up off of her and fixed himself. Steve said that's about when he had heard his nephew Brendan outside, so Steve said that he had called him to come over and give him a hand and told him not to bring anyone else with him. Steve said that a short time later Brendan came over to his house, so Steve said that after he had let Brendan inside of his house he had took him to his bedroom and showed him Teresa's naked body.

Steve had said that Brendan had asked him why is she just laying there like that, Brendan had thought that Teresa was just sleeping. Steve had said that he had told Brendan to go ahead, have sex with her. Steve went on saying that he had told his nephew Brendan that Teresa wont mind if Brendan had sex with her, and then that is when Steve said he grabbed a handful of Teresa's pubic hairs and lifted her up by her crotch so he could show Brendan, Teresa's vagina.

Steve said that after he had released Teresa by her crotch, he had told Brendan to go ahead and have sex with her, but hurry up and get it done with, because he needs to get rid of her. Steve said that he had left Brendan in the bedroom with Teresa while he had went to the kitchen to get some duct tape and rope, then he had walked back to the bedroom with the items and seen Brendan on top of Teresa having sex with her. Steve said that he had waited outside of the bedroom and yelled in there to Brendan to hurry up. Steve said a very short time later Brendan had came out of the bedroom and asked him if that lady is dead or is she just a heavy sleeper, because Teresa had never moved or woke up. Steve said that he had just laughed at his nephew, the way that he had acted so stupid. Steve said that he had told Brendan that she's dead you idiot, then they both went back into the bedroom together, and Steve sat down the duct tape and rope and then took the knife he had earlier, off of the dresser top and then cut Teresa's throat, Steve said that although he had cut Teresa's throat, he didn't think that it was all that deep, because she didn't bleed out all that much.

Steve said that after he had Brendan help him tie Teresa up with the rope, and taped her mouth shut, they carried her body into the kitchen and he had went outside to move Teresa's vehicle closer to his house by the door, he then went back inside of his house after he had moved the vehicle. He had said that because he had knew that no one else was outside to see them, him and Brendan had hurried up and carried Teresa's naked body outside and placed her into the back of her vehicle, then told Brendan to get inside on the passenger side of the vehicle, while Steve had went back inside of his home and retrieved his riffle from his bedroom, then went back to Teresa's vehicle and got inside of it and drove it over to his garage and backed it up to the overhead door. He said that he and Brendan had then got out of the vehicle and he had went inside of the garage and opened up the door, which was the overhead one.

He went to say that he and Brendan had pulled Teresa's body out from the back of her vehicle and put Teresa's body on the garage floor, then Steve had told Brendan to go and watch outside to make sure that no one was coming. So when Brendan had went outside of the garage to keep watch, Steve had said that's when he had taken his .22 riffle and shot Teresa twice in the head, then in the heart and in the chest area, and and then in the vagina, and when I had asked him "why in the hell would you shot her in the Vagina." Steve said, "I shot her in the vagina, because I wanted to make sure that that pussy was dead and wasn't gonna get up and crawl away on him.", then he would laugh when he'd tell me that part.

Steve had said that after he had shot Teresa, then he had Brendan help him put Teresa's body back into the back of her vehicle, then he and Brendan got back inside of her Toyota, and he drove it to his burning pit, where he and Brendan pulled Teresa's body out from the back of the vehicle and they tossed her into the burning pit. Steve said that they had covered her body up with some garabage, tires, and used drain oil. He then told Brendan to stay there and watch out for anyone, and told him to keep covering up the body with branches, while Steve took the Toyota, to hid it out with many other junked vehicles. Steve said that when he had gotten out of the vehicle, he had pulled the key out of the vehicles ignition and placed it into his front shirt pocket of his flannel shirt, then he had taken some electronics, such as some kind of hand computer item, cell phone, camera and placed them on the ground, as he went underneith the hood of the vehicle to disconnect any kind of wires that would go to any kind of GPS tracking unit or an onstar unit that some vehicles had installed on them, and then he had disconnected the cables going to the battery.

Steve also stated that he had removed the license plate from the vehicle and tossed it inside of the toyota, he then covered the vehicle with some boards, old car parts, a hood from another vehicle, branches and garabage items, this was to camouflage it so that know one would see it. Steve then stated that after he was done covering up the vehicle, he had gathered up the items that he had placed on the ground and took them back by the burning pit and tossed them into it, then he and Brendan went back to his home and cleaned up the mess in the house and in the garage. Steve said he had placed all of Teresa's clothing, his shirt, towels and a throw rug into a plastic garabage bag. Steve said that when he was in his bedroom, he had taken off his flannel shirt and tossed it up on the dresser, that's when the key to Teresa's toyota must had fallen out of his shirt pocket and fell between the dresser and the bed.

Then Steve told me that he and Brendan had taken some cleaning supplies, such as dish soap, laundy bleach, and go joe, out to the garage to clean up Teresa's blood that was in the garage on the floor after they had cleaned up all of the DNA evidence and blood of Teresa's that was inside of his house in the bedroom and kitchen area of his home. Steve said that when they had left the house to go clean the garage up, he had placed all of of the garbage bags that he had filled containing the bedding, clothing, rags, and throw rug and placed them all in the trunk of his car, then they went and cleaned up the garage floor with the cleaning supplies he had brought from his house and after him and Brendan was done cleaning up Teresa's blood from the garage floor he had placed all of the cleaning rags and cloths into more garbage bags and put them into his car with the other bags, then he took a gas can containing gasoline in it and put that in his trunk of his car as well with the bags and he and Brendan had taken his car to the burning pit and tossed all of the bags in the pit and then he had poured the gasoline on top of everything that was in the pit, then light the matches to start the fire in the burning pit.

Steve had said that Brendan had stayed with him by the fire for about an hour and thirty minutes, then Brendan went home, but before Brendan had left to go home, Steve said that he had told Brendan to keep his mouth shut about everything and about him having sex with Teresa or that they cleaned up any place inside of Steven's home or garage or all that had happened. Steve said that he had told Brendan that he had millions of dollars coming to him from his law suit against Manitowoc County, and that he would buy Brendan any kind of car that Brendan wanted, if Brendan didn't say anything about what they done or Steve done, but Steve said that he told Brendan that if he said anything to anyone that he wouldn't get anything and that the two of them would both go to prison.

Steve said that Brendan promised to remain quiet and keep his mouth shut to everyone, then Brendan left the fire and went home. Steve said that he had remained out there by the fire for a few more hours and as it was dying down he could see some bones from Teresa's body and some other items that had not burned completely, so Steve said that he had taken a shovel and broke up the bones and scattered them around, then he had shoveled the bones and other things into the burning barrel. Steve said that he had tried burning the stuff for about an hour longer, then called it the night and just went back to his home and went to sleep.

Steve had went on to tell me that he had taken some more items such as clothing of his, two rings of Teresa's that she was wearing at the time that he had killed her and a necklace that she was wearing as well that he had taken off of her, and also the kitchen knife and the shovel that he had used up to the Crivitz, WI area, which I believed he stated and said that it was in the high falls area, in the town of Stevenson. Steve said that after he had gotten rid of the items at some camp up there, that he was on his way back home to Manitowoc, he had been pulled over by a Marinette County Shriff deputy, and that they arrested him for Teresa's murder. Steve said that they impounded his car, and was claiming that he was innocent, and was trying to blame his crime on his brother and just said that the police had planted the evidence of his blood under Teresa's hood on the latch of her Toyota and his DNA inside of it as well and also on the key that fell out of his shirt pocket. Although Steven Avery had alway's told me not to tell anyone anything that he has ever told to me about what he and Brendan Dassey had done, and when his case is over turned he will still help me out like he had told me before he would after he had sued the State of Wisconsin and the City of Manitowoc. And I told Steve that I would never say a word to anyone, so stop worring, I'm not like your nephew Brendan, I'm your friend.

Then in March of 2014, Steven Avery and I were both transfered on the same day from WSPF to Waupun Correctional Institution in Waupun, WI. We would talk to each other on occasions, but not like we use to. Steve had told me that his newly appointed attorney doesn't want him talking to anyone about his case, without her being there. So we would just joke around a little with each other, but our talking was limited, and not on his or my case.

The only reason I now come forward with this statement of mine on the Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey cases, is because the prosecution for the State of Wisconsin needs to now make a decision in Brendan Dassey's case if they are going to recharge him or drop their charges against him in the murder of Teresa Halbach, and I wanted to inform the Manitowoc District Attorney's office of all that Steven Avery had told me himself of what all happened, and that Brendan Dassey never killed Teresa Halbackk and I now felt like I should say all that I had been informed of, which I now am.

This statement was typed out by myself, Joe Wayne Evans, Jr. on this 25th day of August, 2016, in Waupun, WI at the Waupun Corr. Inst.

[redacted po box #]

Signed by Joe Wayne Evans Jr.


Include 12 pages, of which, there are duplicates. Further, the records oddly don't include any confirmation whatsoever that Teresa called or faxed one single document to Auto Trader - ever - within the provided records' timeframes. In fact, the long distance calls ended with records during September.

So, what does this mean? Well, it probably means that Denise and Sheboygan Steve just became a lot more interesting given Denise put her on the road driving, not home, at roughly 11:30 am and the other put her in Sheboygan (both statements which are consistent with her 9:00 am Sheboygan entry on her dayplanner.)

There's a reason the state hid both witnesses from the defense, and it 'ain't because KK thinks thinks these two were unimportant. But, hey, if that KK's story... we'll see.


New poster here. I recently watched the first episode of MaM, and immediately went online and googled SA's name. My gut kinda sank when I saw the Wiki snippet, since I knew this was going to get weird.
So far into the story, it was presented to a nauseating level how screwed-over this guy was by the police, and laid the framework to tell a much longer, darker story where no-one wins.
I was REALLY shocked when I found this sub to find, in my opinion, an overwhelmingly negative opinion of Avery and strong confidence in his guilt. I've only watched about 4-5 episodes so far, but I've been pouring through the threads here and reading the exchanges between what you call "truthers" and "guilters".
From what I've gathered, the vast majority of people who believe in his guilt cite things such as the blood in his car, the fact he was, by all normal standards a sexual deviant, that he can't explain certain things, etc.
From reading these arguments - it's very easy for me to accept that fact that SA could have murdered her. Some of the facts are just a little too fucking weird.
Things like having fires or shampooing his carpet.
His long history of violent behavior and his incestuous relationship.
Conversely, there are some REALLY BIG PROBLEMS I have with such confidence in beyond reasonable doubt that I have yet to see anyone really explain concretely. Maybe they have and I just haven't seen it yet, but that's why I'm here!
Please be kind to me; I'm not a legal expert or totally versed in this case, I'm just looking wrap my head around some things so I stop loosing sleep:
1: First big "wtf" moment I had was in the interview with local reporters where two guys from the search party (sorry, I don't remember their names) discuss finding the RAV4. Why were they so sketchy? Why did it seem like they were rehearsing their story and they exhibit a definite image that they're hiding something? To me, it appeared that part of the search party which was combing the area for her body or clues was directed to Avery's yard. The story goes that they stumbled upon the victim's car in his yard. Why is it not possible that under cover of darkness, the victim's car was placed in a pre-determined location, made to look conspicuous, and then "discovered" by random, angry townspeople? Sorry, to me, those two guys just looked like something was really F'd up about the circumstances surrounding the initial discovery of evidence.
2: Lenk - How on Earth can someone explain this dude? This guy seems to be the epitome of a henchman! First there were questions about his conduct the first time around, and then there was that really bizarre group of depositions from the people who wrongly convicted Avery the first time. For the "guilters", why is the prosecution's recanting of of reality acceptable or NBD, when Dassey or Avery are considered non-credible? The biggest question I have is, during the either the first press conference or shortly after where they reveal the county police "only helped in supplying something we needed, but had NO FURTHER involvement in this investigation", why does Lenk search the place on the last day and find the keys in plain sight? Hadn't they searched the house for 8 full days, when an investigation who had already been investigated himself for his role in SA's prior conviction and found the key? Why is that never explained?
3: Why is the distribution of evidence both so complete and yet so lacking? How could a woman be brutally murdered inside a house and dragged out there with not a shred of physical evidence? Why is there blood all over the inside of her car but no finger prints? cause he wore gloves? For that matter Why even keep the car? or the body? why not just throw it all in the trash compactor, and go throw it in a ravine somewhere. Why hold on to a murder weapon? Why burn parts of the body in different places on the property? why is none of Theresas DNA on her key? **4**: Lastly, how do you explain the attitudes and actions of the prosecutors in both cases with regard to how Avery was treated? IMHO there is absolutely *no* good reason that he would have been targeted with such laser-focus unless it was pre-determined that he was going down, both times. When Kratz is telling the public about BDs confession, he says Theresa begged him to stop before they slit her throat. How does he know what she said? They told BD to say that she said that, then went and wove the most awful story. There are many examples throughout the entire case, both in the murder and the PB case where police, and interestingly the SAME police over 2-decades were actively and aggressively seeking to destroy SA. To put it simply, how can someone who believes there was NO bias or unlawful conduct on part of LE explain the way they essentially went after him execution-style both times? That just seems weird.
Im still going over things to do with this case, but it is pretty interesting to read about. Im sorry that was long, and please be kind. I am looking for real answers here and I`m sorry if I crossed some community guidelines by posting this.
Looking forward to reading whatever anyone has to contribute, thanks.


Avery's blood and/or non-blood DNA was found in numerous locations within Teresa's Rav4 that was found hidden on his family salvage yard parked right next to his old Jeep, and her burnt remains were found in his burn pit (near a burn barrel where her burnt electronics were found) where both he and Brendan initially lied (instead of giving each other an alibi for that night and before the remains were even found) about having a bonfire the evening she disappeared, behind the garage where a bullet was found with her DNA on it that was matched to have been fired from the gun that was hanging above his bed that he was illegally possessing as a rightfully convicted violent felon.

There is no question that Avery is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of being (at least) a party to the crime of her murder based on the facts and evidence.


Avery confessed to his cellmate Evans about murdering TH. The full text is posted elsewhere. Could this information be used against Avery?

You'll also note that AFAIK Avery has NEVER denied killing TH in any affidavit or court testimony.


I know the cut was on his right hand and all the blood samples in the car were on the right hand side of a driver. Ignition, cd case and back passenger door. But if he had an actively bleeding finger wound on his hand, (don't care about SA's gloves, could have soaked through, q-tip photo was after DCI swab, whatever, I'm looking past all that), wouldn't there be blood on the shifter (right hand) or steering wheel?

He could have known he was hurt on his right hand so could shift and steer with only his left hand, but to maneuver into the spot the RAV was found he probably would have had to touch the shifter or steering wheel at some point with his right hand.

One theory I had was he shut her car off while he was bleeding then bandaged up after (if she went to his house she would have left the heat on, so SA would have had to shut the car off). Also why the blood in the back passenger door?

Just curious what other theories are of why the blood was found where it was. If it was planted, they probably would have dabbed some on the shifter and wheel. If someone else moved the car they probably weren't bleeding or wiped down the areas they touched.

Any theories on blood locations in the car? It just doesn't make sense from either a guilter or truther POV IMO.

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He served 18 years for a crime he didn't commit. Now he's on the line again, and some want to see him put away for good.

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