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Posted by'18 Ecoboost Mustang4 months ago

New Toyota Supra set to debut at Geneva 2018 in four states of tune

199 comments
95% Upvoted
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R52S301 points·4 months ago

Everytime I hear "Gazoo Racing" I get a hilarious image of someone sticking a kazoo out of the window of a Supra and playing Flight of the Valkyries or something.

'15 F-Type S Coupe, '07 BMW 335i Coupe123 points·4 months ago

Gazoo and Turd, I mean TRD. Toyota needs to pick someone else to handle their sub-brand naming.

2011 Mustang GT - Ford Apprentice70 points·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

Toyota should make a TRD hot hatch, then an ultimate edition like the 911 GT3 RS

Toyota

Ultimate

Racing

Development

Edit: Fix'd auto correct

Kizashi.6 points·4 months ago

TURE?

lol

2008 Scion xD RS (RIP), 2016 Scion iM, 1999 Mazda Miata 2 points·4 months ago

I’m waiting on the iM being their hot hatch. Def not biased. Give it at least 220HP and hopefully AWD and I’ll trade mine in a heartbeat

It’s your lucky day then. They’ve made it, and they even gave it rwd and a manual six speed.

'16 USDM Auris1 point·4 months ago

You mean Aasbø's drift car with the turbo'd 2AR? We want a production model

2008 Scion xD RS (RIP), 2016 Scion iM, 1999 Mazda Miata 0 points·4 months ago

BOI don’t play with my emotions like that lol. But the standard iM already comes with a 6 speed

I was referring to the GT86.

2008 Scion xD RS (RIP), 2016 Scion iM, 1999 Mazda Miata 1 point·4 months ago

Few things: Not a corolla, not a hatch, and not a Toyota engine. Yes I’m one of those guys lol

Lexus GS450h + Nissan S Cargo1 point·4 months ago

Isn't the iM just a corolla in most places?

'17 Fiesta ST1 point·4 months ago

Didn't they do like a small batch Yaris Special edition? Looked promising but don't remember what ever happened to it.

There was one recently that was called the Yaris grmn I think that had a supercharger.

'17 Fiesta ST3 points·4 months ago

Yep that's the one!

There was an xrs matrix.

I see what u did there

2020 Ford Mustang-Cross 1.0l FWD (CVT)4 points·4 months ago

No, Gazoo is awesome.

2017 Toyota 86 Asphalt MT1 point·4 months ago

I kinda like TRD. It sounds cool like M AMG RS. I mean it doesnt come with the performance (yet) but it's a good name

89 Civic Six2|88 CRX Six2|04 CayenneS|17 Mazda316 points·4 months ago

With how Japanese phoenetic alphabets work, Kazoo and Gazoo are just a couple of tiny marks away.

Kazoo: カズー

Gazoo: ガズー

This is what does my head in when it comes to hand-written Japanese. You put a spec of dust in the wrong place and boom.

'17 Red Miata Club | '94 Mitsu Mighty Max V6 4WD1 point·4 months ago

そですね

2003 Silverado Z71 - Go ahead, hate me.23 points·4 months ago

Kazoo blowoff valve.

2014 Scion FR-S | 1990 BMW E30 325i | 07' Civic1 point·4 months ago

Someone make this happen pls

This is probably the closest we'll get

ND MX-512 points·4 months ago

Without opening it, it's the duck call blowoff valve, isn't it?

2015 370z 7AT | 2016 Nismo Juke 6MT12 points·4 months ago

Better.

I thought so too, but I can confirm what the other guy said; it's worth 2 minutes.

'95 Mark III Flareside F1506 points·4 months ago

It's the rubber chicken, I'd bet my wallet on it.

It baffles me that they're using "Gazoo" instead of the original romanization for 画像 which is "gazo."

'17 WRB Subaru BRZ6 points·4 months ago

To be clear, Gazoo is also correct, but the problem is that pronunciation is Gah Zoh (with a slightly lengthened Oh when compared to the Ah part), but it's not apparent to someone who hasn't taken a class in Japanese.

2009 Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart14 points·4 months ago

Isn't it common to use 'ou' for that, as in Gazou? Hell even Gazoh would be better IMO.

'93 Miata2 points·4 months ago

Yes, but transliteration is an inexact science. Now that I think about it, I think I have seen the "oo" spelling very, very rarely, as in "Toosaka" instead of "Tousaka", "Tohsaka", or even "Tōsaka".

2001 MB SL600; 2000 Acura Integra LS2 points·4 months ago

Even Gazu, which is the same thing but without looking goofy.

That's a different sound on the ending, which would be an incorrect pronunciation.

2001 MB SL600; 2000 Acura Integra LS1 point·4 months ago

what's the difference between gazu and gazoo

2 points·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

u and o are distinct vowels in japanese. when you want to elongate a vowel, you just double it. a -> aa. 2 special cases: double e goes to ei, and double oo goes to ou, when written in the japanese kanas. However they are still pronounced as an elongated e or o.

When you move to the romanized script, things get messy. I've seen elongated o as oo, ou, oh, o (with the little bar over it).

so to answer your question, gazu has the u sound on the end, gazoo has the elongated o at the end (like orange, but longer).

I have taken Japanese, lived in the Tokyo area for several years, speak Japanese at good conversational level, and didn't even consider a pronunciation other than the kazoo way until now.

It makes sense now that I'm aware that "Gazoo" is supposed to be Japanese (and not just some goofy name). But "Gazo" would be much more natural for virtually everyone.

Every toyota fan turns their head away when they see Gazoo Racing.

Who the fuck is head of toyota marketing, who came up with this name.

'15 Mustang GT 12.9@11116 points·4 months ago

I think of the Flintstones character https://i.ytimg.com/vi/15oqSgyULeI/maxresdefault.jpg

Bronco, 90 Civic EX3 points·4 months ago

Same here, does this mean we're old?

2010 Chevrolet Colorado 2.9L 5MT3 points·4 months ago

I'm 20 and I think of The Great Gazoo, what does that make me?

Comment deleted4 months ago(1 child)
16 MX-5, 02 MX-5, 13 BRZ2 points·4 months ago

Like they were for the FR-S.

Husqvarna YTA24V486 points·4 months ago

Horrible name for such a badass team

Gazoo is the alien from jetsens im pretty sure.

e46 M3 / 180cc gy6 ruckus9 points·4 months ago

Flintstones Dumdumb

Why would there be aliens in flintstones?

e46 M3 / 180cc gy6 ruckus3 points·4 months ago

The Great Gazoo was exiled to Earth from his home planet Zetox as punishment for having invented a doomsday machine.

'06 MX-5, '09 Civic. RIP Kenichi Yamamoto!2 points·4 months ago

In fairness, "GR" sounds neat

GRMN sounds like gremlin to me which sounds kinda cool. The Supra Gremlin.

'14 Fiesta ST1 point·4 months ago

I read it like "Garmin", the GPS manufacturer :/

'04 Patty Wagon2 points·4 months ago

I read it like "grim", which sounds cool to me.

Grumman for me, like an F-14!

The old cars had a straight-six engine, twin turbos and rear-wheel drive; the new car must have the same philosophy.

Now that's an interesting quote

I think it must have a 6 speed manual too.

'06 Mustang GT57 points·4 months ago

Auto only hybrid gas saver. Its what the soccer moms want!

'93 Miata33 points·4 months ago

Leave it to Toyota to try and build a 2+2 coupe/hatchback Supra for soccer moms...

Talks about drifting, drives a minivan36 points·4 months ago

Well, they DID make the SC300...

'94 Miata M-Edition5 points·4 months ago

You mean the SC430? because the sc300 was a nice lil luxury cruiser

09 VW GTI/88 RX7 GXL3 points·4 months ago

Sc300 is dope. The soarer is bad ass.

'06 Mustang GT21 points·4 months ago

Fuck it, throw a lift kit on it and call it a crossover.

'93 Miata19 points·4 months ago

That's more like it. Don't even have to drop the Supra name, just look at Mitsubishi barfs

'95 F-150 XL 300 block 5spd + '01 Civic EX 5spd7 points·4 months ago

Birth of a new performance straight six?

2011 BMW 335d|JBD|Alpina wheels|Quaife LSD1 point·4 months ago

No, they're using BMW engines, presumably the B58.

'95 F-150 XL 300 block 5spd + '01 Civic EX 5spd2 points·4 months ago

Is it 100% confirmed? I like bmw buy a new toyota performance engine would be very cool to see imo.

2011 BMW 335d|JBD|Alpina wheels|Quaife LSD3 points·4 months ago

I haven't heard anything to contradict it, but I agree, a successor to the 2JZ would be awesome.

'15 F-Type S Coupe, '07 BMW 335i Coupe36 points·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

Given that it’s supposed to have a BMW motor and BMW no longer manufactures a non-M twin turbo six, that’s very interesting. The B58 is a single turbo with dual scrolls. Only twin turbo six is the discontinued N54, which had... issues.

Im really curious how this winds up turning out. BMW reliability has not been great in recent years (just look at all the N20 motors that grenaded from failed timing chains), and Toyota’s sales and reputation is based off their reliability. If the new Supra has BMW reliability, it could harm Toyota’s brand image.

Edit: BMW does make a current twin turbo six, the S55 used in the M3 and M4.

Mercedes-Benz & Land Rover32 points·4 months ago

BMW no longer manufactures a twin turbo six

S55 is TT I6. In the M3/4

'15 F-Type S Coupe, '07 BMW 335i Coupe11 points·4 months ago

I honestly didn’t know. BMW brands it as “TwinPower,” just like they do with the single turbo dual scroll motors, so I assumed it was the same thing. Especially with it being based off the N55.

So does this mean BMW is going to be sharing an M motor with Toyota? That would really surprise me.

Mercedes-Benz & Land Rover12 points·4 months ago

BMW brands it as “TwinPower,”

Yeah, it's super confusing. I hate how they call all their turbo engines "TwinPower."

So does this mean BMW is going to be sharing an M motor with Toyota?

Who knows. The build codes for the Z4 variant were leaked a few months ago. I guess it just has the B58 engine, so maybe that means Toyota gets to borrow the M engine?

'16 Golf R1 point·4 months ago

But everything I’d seen said this will be a Toyota V6, not a BMW motor.

2011 BMW 335d|JBD|Alpina wheels|Quaife LSD2 points·4 months ago

A V6 in a supra would be disgusting. Every time a manufacturer goes from an I6 to a V6 is disgusting.

'16 Golf R2 points·4 months ago

Isn’t it horrible? Really happy to see Mercedes and Jaguar going back to the I6!

Just curious, would Supra fans prefer a Toyota V6 to a BMW I6 in this application though?

-5 points·4 months ago(3 children)
WRX, 1125R2 points·4 months ago

Wait isn't the Supra going to be upmarket from a m3/4

05 E46 M3 Coupe - AU1 point·4 months ago

No, its a sporty GT car like always.

2000 Lexus LS4000 points·4 months ago

The S55 is not that great.

2012 Civic Si Coupe1 point·4 months ago

Don't get me this excited... Geneva is still a long two months away

So that's why they're branding it Gazoo!

Passat CC VR61 point·4 months ago

Please no, not 2016 again.

'14 Volt, '04 Forester XT, '69 Karmann Ghia1 point·4 months ago

Well they're braver than Infiniti with their QX30 relying on an Mercedes 2.0 turbo I-4.

I'm curious, would the hardcore Supra fans rather see a BMW sourced inline 6 or a Toyota sourced V6, like the new twin turbo 3.5 in the new LS500?

I would have thought they would prefer a Toyota motor even if it's not an inline 6 because of higher reliability and brand affinity. What's really going to set this thing apart from an M3 if it is essentially a German car, and especially if no manual is available?

'93 Miata1 point·4 months ago

Well, that quote isn't completely correct, anyway. The Supra didn't get twin turbos until 1990, while the Supra started production in 1986 (1978 if you count the Celica Supra).

But of course everybody only remembers the twin turbo JZA80 from 1994-2002.

So the straight 6 from the BMW M3/4?

89 Civic Six2|88 CRX Six2|04 CayenneS|17 Mazda3104 points·4 months ago

The interview with the lead designer gives hope. Although, I still can't take "Gazoo" Racing seriously (says the one calling themselves MuffinRacing)

'18 Ecoboost MustangOriginal Poster40 points·4 months ago

The good thing is that it will probably still be called a Toyota here. There was an older article talking about how they wouldn't use the Gazoo name in the states since TRD has better name recognition.

'09 Cobalt SS t/c, '15 VW GTI Autobahn34 points·4 months ago

Always seemed silly to me that they used TRD on all their trucks too, I have a hard time not associating TRD with off road now.

'18 Ecoboost MustangOriginal Poster11 points·4 months ago

Yea their scope here is pretty much that and nascar.

2012 Kia Optima EX Turbo37 points·4 months ago

When I was in high school (early 2000s) I was obsessed with Japanese sports cars, especially with the Supra. I really wanted a MkIII but I was poor and had to pay for college instead. Oh well, I'm stoked to see what Toyota did with this version of the Supra.

'93 Miata11 points·4 months ago

I'm a bit younger than you, but I'm a couple of years out of high school and I'd still buy 90s-early 00s Japanese over anything else. But I'm poor too, so I had to settle for, well, see flair.

'17 Toyota 867 points·4 months ago

Looks like am early 90s Japanese sportscar to me

'93 Miata3 points·4 months ago

I know, but it's not one of the "elites" like the twin turbo Supra.

WRX Sti Type R6 points·4 months ago

You're only two turbos away. Dream big!

'93 Miata3 points·4 months ago

Are you me?

2011 Mustang GT - Ford Apprentice15 points·4 months ago

Same, except I wanted a Mk 4

Now I'm into V8s

'94 Toyota Supra Targatop | 2017 VW Jetta 118TSI9 points·4 months ago

I've got a friend that put a Soarer 1UZ-FE in his MK4 Supra so he could have both.

2002 Lexus IS3001 point·4 months ago

why

'94 Toyota Supra Targatop | 2017 VW Jetta 118TSI8 points·4 months ago

Lots of Aussie's love their V8s. The V8 engine plus a supercharger and a straight line shifter does alright at the drags too from what I've heard.

TIL Australians are island Americans

'94 Toyota Supra Targatop | 2017 VW Jetta 118TSI5 points·4 months ago

Haha basically Texans on an island from what I've heard from the Texans I've played football with.

Yeah, there was a mental 1uz powered supra in Sydney at toyotafest about 8 years ago with ITB's.. full show car quality too. One of the craziest sounding cars I've ever heard.

'91 Chevy S101 point·4 months ago

The 1UZ is an insanely capable engine in the right hands, there just wasn't a huge market for performance stuff in the US. From what I understand it's extremely common to find them stuffed into powerboats and stuff, pushing big power. They're supposed to be extremely cheap over there too, analogous to the Chevy V8s here; they can be found for a few hundred bucks for a new one, I've read. Just look at what they can do in an old Opel!

2012 Kia Optima EX Turbo3 points·4 months ago

I loved the mkiv way more but knew I couldn't afford it lol. A clean, turbo MkIII was at least attainable

2011 Mustang GT - Ford Apprentice2 points·4 months ago

oh I'm in Canada, RHD with less than 100k km (60k miles) can be had for less than $10k CAD for an NA

18' Levante Gran Lusso/ '17 Ghibli S16 points·4 months ago

I'm not even a fan but I am excited to see what Toyota will do with this.

'18 STI Limited / '16 370Z NISMO Tech / '00 ML32018 points·4 months ago

Has there been hints or evidence of the Supra being unveiled at Geneva? I don't see anything in the linked article supporting it besides the writer stating it in the first paragraph.

95 SC300 - 99 MX-5 - 91 MR2 (Sold)10 points·4 months ago

It's probably bogus just like the articles from last year saying the supra, mr2 and rx7 revivals will be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor show last October. I went there specifically hoping that was the case and was really let down, though I already knew the articles were actual fake news. These hopeful rumor mill articles get constantly upvoted despite there being no actual evidence that these people really said what they're claimed to have said. Though it's totally possible something will get shown, these articles overly optimistic claims come out about Geneva literally (not even metaphorically) every single year

'18 STI Limited / '16 370Z NISMO Tech / '00 ML3202 points·4 months ago

Yeah it probably is bogus and I’m not putting my hopes up yet again. I was also really looking forward to the last Tokyo show with all the hype.

I just find it odd that no one is even questioning the Geneva statement when it’s the title of the article. All the other discussions that are happening in this thread are things everyone’s been talking about for years.

I signed up for updates on the Supra (ft1 concept) through the Toyota website and haven't received anything yet. I'm hesitant to believe the article as well.

I sort of wonder if this new car is actually the Supra replacement or the GT86 replacement.

Looking at the pics, the car looks similarly sized to the current GT86. It's also built alongside the new Z4, which is about the same size as a GT86.

All the quotes from Gazoo Racing's chief about the Supra are over a year old now, and none have really made mention of sharing the Z4 chassis. I believe that's all still media speculation at this point.

2005 miata33 points·4 months ago

Nah they just refreshed the 86 and its selling well. Also the supra is going to be more expensive

The 86 is not selling well in the US. In 2016, the annual sales were right under 7500. And they’ve been declining since 2013. I don’t think the 2017 numbers are out yet but even with the refresh, it’s doubtful they’ll break 10,000 in sales for that year.

Also, it’s a given that the Supra is going to be more expensive. I don’t really understand what your point is or how that affects the speculation that this upcoming unknown car is a Supra replacement as opposed to an 86 replacement. The price range of this new unknown car hasn’t been released yet. Am I missing something?

Anyway, I’m mostly going off looks of the test vehicle. The car looks to be roughly the same size as the GT86. The Supra is a “grand tourer” so we can expect it to be at least as large as the current RC-F. Those spy shots show a car that’s more compact than the RC-F.

Plus the current GT86 will be seven years old if Toyota decides to keep sales going until the end of summer this year for a 2019 model. The old Supra lasted five years (93.5-98) on US shores, and nine years (93-02) in Japan. The last Celica was around for seven years (99-06), the last MR2 was around for seven years (00-07), and the last IS-F was around for six years (07-13). Toyota doesn’t keep sports cars around for a long time, and the GT86 will hit that seven year mark in a couple months. It seem like now is a good time to announce a replacement.

Toyota ( as in the man who owns Toyota) has said he wants Toyota to become passionate again and not just an appliance to young people.

That's why he is pushing hard with

Gazoo and trying to win le mans. This push involves 3 sports cars.

The 86 being the entry level, the Supra mid level and the super sport being the highest.

The deal with Bmw stipulates that supra will not compete in the same market at Z4. Probably why it's a coupe and very likely to start at $35-$45k or less likely but possibly $70k + as Z4 starts at $49k.

So if they go high with supra and try to make it a corvette competitor I would say 86 could get an update.

I think more likely they will try to be more Japanese and keep the lower price points as part of the appeal. And this way they aren't doing a Cadillac and straight up competing with an M5 but rather slotting in between competitors.

I thought the supra was meant to be the high end sports car, gt 86 the middle end and the SFR the low end sports car.

With 200hp the 86 would struggle to stay in the middle segment.

Toyoda has said that, but he's still constrained by the Toyota Board and investors.

In any case, it's still just media speculation that the Z4 sister car is going to be the Supra. Not a single person at Toyota has stated this new car is going to be the Supra. It's just people on the internet who officially know as mush as you or I.

In regards to the pricing, you bring up a good point. The deal with BMW does state Toyota can't occupy the same market with their new car, so not around the $50K mark. Though $30K, which is sort of where people are expecting the next gen GT86 to be around (with global inflation) is perfectly acceptable.

This gives more credence to the idea that this new car is a GT86 replacement.

That's actually a great point. It is very much shaped to be a gt86 replacement.

13 points·4 months ago

They just did a refresh on the GT86, doubt they get rid of it. Sales are not the main motivator for a car like the GT86. It is about getting people on lots, and generating excitement around the brand. The GT86 is an advertisement billboard.

Toyota wants to shed their boring image and come out with a more exciting line up of cars. Another thing to keep in mind is that the GT86/BRZ sells about as many cars as the ND Miata and Fiata. It is right in line with cars of a similar type.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but the GT86/BRZ is not selling as well as the ND/124.

2017 sales:

  • BRZ: 4131

  • GT86: 6846, It's still classified as a Scion FRS on here for some reason

  • ND: 11,294

  • 124: 4478

  • GT86/BRZ: 10,977

  • ND/124: 15,772

Anyway, the MY refresh was in 2015. It's 2018 now, and 2019 models will debut at the end of summer. This new car seems to be positioned to be the replacement for the current generation GT86, not the new Supra.

-14 points·4 months ago(4 children)
12 points·4 months ago

Have you ever driven the GTf86? It has some of the best dynamics, ergonomics, handling and inputs of any car south of the Porsche Cayman. It is a bargain in its own right, while it won't blow your socks off with acceleration, it more than makes up for it in the corners.

-4 points·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

I have driven it, pre and post refresh. It's a decent, if slightly cheap materials wise car that's dragged down by an awful motor. Everything it does, a Miata does better except the GT86 has better stash space and is (imo) slightly better looking.

As for comparing it to a cayman? Hell no, it's nowhere close. It doesn't even rival a 4 banger Mustang beyond being (maybe) slightly more nimble. It's a good car, but let's not get delusional.

However, all that said, I have also driven one with a centrifugal super, and it fixed almost everything I didn't like about the car's power delivery. If it came with that sort of set up, I'd consider it great and a decent buy. But without it? The gutless stock motor overshadows any other good qualities the car has.

And no its not just the raw numbers that matter. The Miata is great (and faster) with less power. It's how it delivers it. The GT86 has zero power in the middle, and that spoils the whole driving experience. That it sounds awful doesn't help either.

9 points·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

I never said it was a Cayman, I said it has some of the best driving dynamics south of a Porsche Cayman. Meaning, that I was using the Cayman, and its price point as a benchmark, not a direct comparison.

Now, that being said it is pretty close in driving feel to a first, and second gen Cayman. That parallel has been noted many times, by multiple different reviewers, including Chris Harris. Obviously the Cayman is the much superior car and machine, but being mentioned in the same breath as the Cayman is high praise for a car in the GT86's price bracket.

Everything a Miata can do better? Hmm... That is a dubious claim as well. The Miata RF, and the Toyota 86 ran virtually the same time with the same driver behind the wheel at the same track, that driver being Randy Pobst. The 86 actually came out on top by a 100th of a second. This is a car that has significantly less tire, and smaller brakes than that Miata. Deciding which car is best really comes down to personal preference. I do think the 86 has more potential in its chassis, however.

You're focusing too much on acceleration, and power. The 86 will never be that car. It has the same approach as the Miata in a more usable day to day package. That is all. It's engine is not an anchor either. The FA series of engines are actually incredibly robust powerhouses. That torque dip you talk about is fixed with nothing more than a 200-500 dollar header. 100 horsepower per liter is hardly a boat anchor.

1 point·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

Having driven both cars myself, I can't agree with you at all. The GT86 doesn't echo the cayman to me in any way. It feels like a Miata with no mid range power. I don't care if one reviewer and forum fan boys who latched onto his words say otherwise.

Running a 100th faster than the heaviest, slowest Miata isn't exactly a resounding victory. What's more, in trying to find this face off, the only one I could find with Pobst was an MX5 vs BRZ where the Miata was about 2 seconds faster and beat the BRZ in every metric except interior space.

And saying I'm focusing too much on power and acceleration is willfully ignoring my point. It's not just the acceleration, but the response (hell I love the shit out of my Fiesta ST even though it only has 167hp). There is a reason so many people call the car gutless and it's to do with that awful torque drop in the middle of the power band, right where you'd normally be sitting during a spirited drive or when pulling out of a corner at the track. It bogs and ruins the driving dynamic of the car. 100hp/L doesn't mean a thing if the delivery of that power is so slow and weak. It gets even more offensive when you consider that a boxer should by all right be churning out fat gobs of torque in the mid range. Which, with a little bit of boost it does. Which is why I maintain that until they come with some kind of forced induction or a whole new motor with a stronger mid range the toyubaru twins will never be anything but wasted potential. And sales numbers compared to the Miata and 4 cylinder pony cars (all in the same price bracket and competitors) imply that the people actually buying these kinds of cars and not just wanking them on forums agree. It's why I don't own one despite otherwise really, genuinely liking the car for its looks and better than Miata practicality.

89 Civic Six2|88 CRX Six2|04 CayenneS|17 Mazda313 points·4 months ago

The Supra is actually a tiny car. It has incredible street presence, but if you see someone actually standing next to a Supra, it's small.

95 SC300 - 99 MX-5 - 91 MR2 (Sold)11 points·4 months ago

I remember standing next to a supra for the first time and thinking "damn this thing is way smaller than I expected." The ft-1 pictures we have so far don't really contradict the old supra's size.

It is (relatively) small, but it's not GT86 small. Then again, just about every car designed in the 90's is smaller than it's current counterpart, save for the Corvette and maybe Miata.

The car in the spy shots look about the size of the GT86. The last Supra was a little over 10" longer than the GT86 despite having almost the same wheelbase. I think if anything the new Supra would look noticeably larger than the GT86. I'd imagine it would be at least as large as the Lexus RC.

2001 MB SL600; 2000 Acura Integra LS5 points·4 months ago

They're pretty close, the Supra has a longer wheelbase and most of that extra length stays ahead of the windshield:

http://i.imgur.com/q422E.jpg

https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/ixvejr8-jpg.3393/

They are close, but that's comparing a car designed with 90's era crash protection to a car designed with modern era crash protections and regulations. Not to mention the GT86 has front-midship engine placement versus the Supra with it engine positioned over the front axles, so the wheelbase versus length is a little unreliable in the comparison pic.

I think Toyota will at least try to make the next Supra a front-midship design, as that's the current sports car trend. The Lexus LC platform is front-midship, however the RC with the V6 engine is almost front-midship as well. Like half of the forward two cylinders are over the front axle. Though they could use the RC chassis and switch to a rear-mounted transaxle setup to keep the weight balanced and front-midship, keep the car small, and not compete directly with the RC350/RC-F and LC500. Though I guess they could do that with a GT86 sized chassis as well.

89 Civic Six2|88 CRX Six2|04 CayenneS|17 Mazda33 points·4 months ago

I think how low and wide the supra is makes it feel smaller than it is.

Hopefully it is GT86 sized and not RC size

This new car, if it GT86 sized, will probably just be the replacement for the GT86. Like the second generation or something.

The next Supra will probably have to compete in the same segment as the Mustang, Camaro, and Charger. While it may not be as large as those cars, it's doubtful Toyota will make it similar in size to the GT86.

The Supra is actually a tiny car

LOL no it's not. It's about 178 inches long which is the equivalent of most modern cars. It's a BOAT compared to its contemporaries.

Source - I owned a '95 TT 6 speed.

Doubt it, the Supra and the GT86 have a completely different design ethos. The Supra, going by reports is small, but seems to be more in-line with AXIS powered muscle. Leaks have stated that it could be powered by a turbocharged 3.6 liter v6. The GT86 is a beginner sports car, that has the same design philosophy as the Miata. Lower power, but able to hold speed through corners. It does this better than pretty much any car in the market.

Think of this like the Cayman and 911.

I don't get it, you doubt what? That this is the new Supra or the replacement for the current generation GT86?

16 MX-5, 02 MX-5, 13 BRZ2 points·4 months ago

Nah, they've talked a lot about the second generation 86, and they've also talked about having multiple sports cars in their lineup. The 86 will live on for at least another generation.

That's what I'm saying, that this new car is the second generation of the GT86. I don't believe it will be the new Supra.

16 MX-5, 02 MX-5, 13 BRZ5 points·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

The new model is said to weigh between 1,200kg and 1,500kg

That's kind of a huge range. 2650 to 3300 lbs. So it could be 100 lbs lighter than an 86 or it could be a 370Z. If it's the former, then it's what everyone has been begging for, even if that weight figure is minus twin turbos or something. A N/A I6 would probably still have "enough" power for people who aren't satisfied with the Miata and BRZ's output but still want a tossable sports car.

'14 Fiesta ST1 point·4 months ago

I mean, 3300 pounds is still pretty light compared to what this will compete with.

Go find a new RWD V6 coupe that weighs less than that. They're hard to come by aside from like, Lotus.

All American cars are like 3500+ lbs. Lot of German cars are also north of 3300+

16 MX-5, 02 MX-5, 13 BRZ2 points·4 months ago

The Cayman weighs about 2900 lbs.

Honestly I was surprised that the upper bound was 3300, I figured a new Supra was going to be more of a GT car, closer to an M4. If it's even as low as 3000, that does come in under a lot of fast cars as you said.

This article was kind of all over the place, though. Lots of salt grains to be taken here.

2016 Tacoma 6MT, 1999 Corvette 6MT25 points·4 months ago

I'm probably in the minority here, but the lack of the Sports Roof / Targa is a let down for me personally. I know that the fixed roof adds rigidity and doesn't have the associated weight increase, but that has slowly become a Supra trademark (in MkIII and MkIV iterations).

I'm curious where the price point will be. I can't see the base model coming in under 60k.

'94 Toyota Supra Targatop | 2017 VW Jetta 118TSI14 points·4 months ago

I agree, driving a Supra with a targa may not be optimal for racing but it certainly feels like something that's become a part of the Supra brand.

b0bab0i2 points·4 months ago

If you want a vert, just go for the z4/z5

2016 Tacoma 6MT, 1999 Corvette 6MT0 points·4 months ago

You couldn't give me a convertible, outside of a S2000. I like targas as they keep the fastback profile while giving the open air feel.

Autocross cars1 point·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

Ugh. The MKIV targa was a super bitch to remove/replace/stow. FOUR allen bolts to tediously unscrew, and the rear two had terrible angles that were prone to stripping.

All three of my MKIVTTs were targas but after the initial gleam wore off on the first one I rarely took a top off, and never on the other two. Del Slows, on the other hand...so nice. Two handles <flip> and done!

 

Note: top speed for a BPU MKIV might be in the 165mph range with the targa off. In testing on highways in Mexico. I heard.

2016 Tacoma 6MT, 1999 Corvette 6MT1 point·4 months ago

Man, I'm jealous. By the time I had a place to store a winter vehicle MkIV Supras went past the 25k mark for a decent non-turbo, let alone a turbo.

If I had one, I don't think the roof would ever be in place. I got a C5 to satisfy my non-convertible but open roof driving and I don't think the roof is ever on the car, unless I'm parking it somewhere overnight or if it's a truly cold day. Mine has latches and not bolts, so I can understand how that would get annoying fast.

Autocross cars1 point·4 months ago

Don't get me wrong, I love open tops (I currently own three convertibles and drive top down in almost all weather conditions), but the MKIV targa implementation was entirely unfun. It was even painful to stow (when solo) in the trunk as it had to be angled into the hatch opening while attempting to hit the storage tray.

Corvettes would probably top my list of targa-equipped cars. Fun to drive, good bang for buck, reliable, easy targa. And yep, MKIV prices are noots these days, although since depreciation has flat-lined it works out ok if you can leave $40K in a car as you'll still get $40K out of it when done.

2016 Tacoma 6MT, 1999 Corvette 6MT0 points·4 months ago

My C5 is more fun than it should be. I went from an STi to the C5 so it's quite the culture shock, but outside of the Playskool interior, it's pretty good.

The worst part of it HAS to be the owner base though. 'Murica hurr durr bestest car ever, everything else stinks. I went to a local car show put on by a Corvette club and got lectured for not having stock wheels or seats, etc etc. Yet 99% of the cars there had an overabundance of chrome.

Civic DX 1.6 '995 points·4 months ago

I'll believe it when I see it.

'17 Red Miata Club | '94 Mitsu Mighty Max V6 4WD5 points·4 months ago

Lol. I’ll believe it when they hit the dealerships

I'm curious to see the starting price point. A strange decision to debut this model in one of the worst markets for its sales.

I have no interest in the car, but I hope it's really good and force everyone else to build something better.

96 Suzuki X90(4x4), 87 Fiero GT, 96 Suzuki X90(RWD), 85 Fiero SE4 points·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

i wonder if Yamaha got to get their hands on the engine design(in toyota performance engine tradition) or if it was BMW that handles the engine like Subaru in the FRBGRSZT-86

Yamaha tuned the FA20 in the 86.

96 Suzuki X90(4x4), 87 Fiero GT, 96 Suzuki X90(RWD), 85 Fiero SE2 points·4 months ago

Nice. I'm not seeing that though. Source?

'10 Challenger R/T 6MT3 points·4 months ago

They can't fuck this up. Many people have been waiting for a powerful Supra to confirm what they think about the original.

The Legend is Back

2014 Scion FR-S | 1990 BMW E30 325i | 07' Civic2 points·4 months ago

I'm so hyped for this car

2015 BMW M32 points·4 months ago

Gazoo Racing? Really?

'16 Golf R , '86 Grand National2 points·4 months ago

I hope it comes with a big swoopy wing as an option on the performance models!

1994 F150 2WD 3025 points·4 months ago

I like the rest, but that front end is uuuuuuuugggllly.

It's been said to death, but neither you nor anyone else who's not on the design team actually knows what the car looks like underneath its camo. Automakers are actually very effective at hiding their exterior features until the official launch, as that one BMW video on YT makes super duper clear. I expect that the car underneath will look much better than the one with the bulky camo padding.

'85 Corona x2 | 22re > 2JZ | The NSX8 points·4 months ago

Yeah the front looks kinda like a squished McLaren.

'94 Toyota Supra Targatop | 2017 VW Jetta 118TSI2 points·4 months ago

I don't like the lack of Targa or the small ducktail spoiler. I love the idea of having a large rounded wing similar to the MK4.

99.5 A4 & 03 allroad1 point·4 months ago

I was really hoping they would have one at the NAIAS.

Husqvarna YTA24V481 point·4 months ago

That CGI render is official? it's a little unimaginative. I really believe that it'll look like a bigger and badder 86, specifically the front end. seriously some artist just painted the spy car blue

Those are also the stock gt86/brz wheels too

2018 Ram express hemi1 point·4 months ago·edited 4 months ago

I realized today that the only 90's Japanese (performance) car name that lived through the 2000's is the WRX STI. Everything else died and got resurrected or rabadged to something else (except the 370Z if they still make it for 2018).

:/ the front bumper reminds me of the generic but customizable bumper from NFS carbon. Also what the hell is gazoo racing, where'd that come from never heard of it

1996 Honda Accord blue/green, msrp $120.9B1 point·4 months ago

Backseats or no?

I wonder if this one will be easy to upgrade like the old supra

Im pretty sure I still won’t be able to afford it like the 90’s ones, but kudos to em.

Later:

1000hp NEW TOYOTA SUPRA (NOT CLICKBAIT)!!1!!!!!1!!

R35 GT-R, 350 Z, 370 Z, E63 AMG S1 point·4 months ago

Kinda looks like a Z4 coupe made love to a 350z.

09 VW GTI/88 RX7 GXL1 point·4 months ago

Just buy the base model to swap in a 2jz and put coilovers on it. Also put toyota badges on it.

I hope what Toyota does won't disappoint like what Nissan did to the R35.

How did the R35 disappoint? It literally beat supercars for a fraction of the price when it came out. Even today the R35 is somewhat of a contender despite being 10 years old...

It disappoint him because it didn't came with 3 pedals.

Everyone on /cars

See my reply to u/TusShona. And I never mentioned anything about performance, because I respect that car's performance since it first appeared, and to see a 2000+ whp VR38 with ONLY a sleeved stock block and stock crank, there's certainly a good engineering behind it. But as time passes by, I got the chance to feel the 'classic' R35 and the newer ones. It is subject to a personal opinion, and to me any of the updated R35 is not a good car.

Side note: I was one of those R35 fan boys who praised the car above anything else. And I respect every car, so I have no hate towards the GTR.

'96 RX7 FD | '10 Focus ST | '89 Mk2 GTI 20vt (loading)1 point·4 months ago

It's destined to disappoint because they will utilize new technologies to increase performance as they did with the Mkiv Supra back then. But the unbearable fanboys will get upset and complain about the car not being as raw or as fun as the last Supra because they don't like change and always want to remain stuck in the past. When there's a gap in production it gives people a chance to reminisce over what once was and how good it was, it never works for movie reboots, it didn't work for the R35 and it won't work for the Supra. The 17 year wait has allowed people to build an impossible standard of the Supra, and no matter how good it is as a car, it will never live up to the legacy the Mkiv has left behind.

I like your point. I remember back when the new NSX was revealed, people cried on how technologically advanced it is and not as 'good' as what it was.

But the truth is that what Honda did was just staying true to NSX's roots, hence the name New Supercar eXperimental. Yes it wasn't cheap, it doesn't make decent lap times, and it's too technologically advanced. But people missed out the point of an NSX. I'm one of those who's glad that Honda made the new NSX that way.

What I wanted to point out is that, I'm hoping Toyota won't update the car like what Nissan did to the R35. If you compare the first-gen R35 with, a 2017 for example, you'll get what I mean. Nissan doesn't update the car to be what it meant to be, but rather what people want it to be. And sadly that makes the updated cars only worse. The original R35 is quite a good car IMO, but the newer ones feels too comfortable. I'm not going to be upset if the car isn't going to be as raw as what the JZA80 was, because as a manufacturer they will always try to make the car follows technological limits. I'm only hoping that Toyota won't find a way to further develop the car to be worse.

'96 RX7 FD | '10 Focus ST | '89 Mk2 GTI 20vt (loading)1 point·4 months ago

Can you give me a little more detail on how they updated the GTR and how that made it bad? I never followed the R35 too much, so I don't know much about how they updated it other than making it faster and subtly changing it cosmetically year by year.

Handling-wise. Like I said earlier, the newer ones feels too comfortable IMO. I'm not saying that it has a horrible handling, but for a sport car... eh.

Built, slap choppin 2008 Z061 point·4 months ago

Well if it resembles the thing in the photo I feel bad for the fan boys who have been hyping this thing up. I'll go ahead and pass.

So, is this officially a Supra? First there was the FT1, which was never called a supra but the internet took that and ran with it. Is this what the FT1 turned into? Is this ACTUALLY going into production? It's confusing

'15 Civic Si4 points·4 months ago

“The Supra will be by Gazoo,” the performance division, Shigeki Tomoyama, told Auto Express late last year.

Such a weird choice to me. One of Toyota's most iconic cars ever, and they reboot it as the "Gazoo Racing Supra".

00' Acura 1.6EL, 05' Lexus LS430, 70' Cadillac Sedan De ville0 points·4 months ago

1st cvt version

2nd hybrid 4 cyl 4 speed auto

3rd fwd version

4th all electric 110hp

8th Gen Honda Civic 1.8 0 points·4 months ago

Why not just use 'Gazoo' as a model name? People would miss the Supra name though. Or for each spec so it'd be Toyota Supra Gazoo Racing X and so on? Sure it'd be slightly long winded but Gazoo Racing sounds a weird way to solely brand a car.

Wednesday is coming13 points·4 months ago

Why not just use 'Gazoo' as a model name?

Because that sounds even worse than Gazoo Racing.

Sorry but it looks like "modern" crap and it has no 2jz, im sticking with the real Supra.

'96 RX7 FD | '10 Focus ST | '89 Mk2 GTI 20vt (loading)2 points·4 months ago

Thats right, knock it down before it's even built itself up. Times change, the manufacturers roll with it because new technology allows for better performance and better efficiency. If it wasn't for the changes in technology your precious "Real Supra" would probably have less than 100hp run on a carbed engine and have a fucking hand crank to start.

Stop being stuck in the past and get the fuck over it, you're just letting people know how much of an ignorant bellend you are.

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