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Riot: We don't want so much waveclear in the mid lane.
Also Riot: Let's buff Anivia
I know you're memeing but the current problem with waveclear is that it's no longer a niche which a select few filled (Ziggs, Anivia, etc.), but rather a huge fucking dent that must be filled in order for your champion to be playable midlane. Heck it's the reason most midlane assassins are hardly viable anymore, they just don't get to roam.
Literally this; the issue isn't that they don't want waveclear, it's that it used to be a specialization or a strength rather than a god-given right to mids.
I've been saying forever that LeBlanc only ever becomes problematic when you give her waveclear. Assassins should not be allowed to have wave clear.
Same shit with Zed, he can clear so well and poke / clear from a distance it makes it bullshit that he's also an assassin.
Zed isn't really a problem. He's flashy in low elo but I can't remember the last time I had a problem of a super fed Zed. It's too easy to just build Zhonyas.
I don't think he's a problem right now, because he's undertuned.
But when he's strong, he has no real weaknesses.
Strangely, most midlane assassins have some form of waveclear now.
There is also one exception, Leblanc, which seems to be doing well in this meta.
Hell, Yasuo and Zed out wave clear a lot of mid tier Mages due to their non Mana based kit. They're not ranged but the ability to blow up waves without worrying about getting low enough to be vulnerable is a huge advantage.
Except Talon is literally one of if not the single best mid laner in solo queue right now. Also, head on over to ANY sites like champion.gg, lolalytics. Assassins have BY far the highest play rate. Majority of them have 50% or above win rates as well. Assassins having over 50% win rate means they are extremely busted.
Assassins are not only very good right now, they are better than the wave clear mages you all meme about.
But what is talons main advantage as that mid lane assassin? It that with Tiamat and W he can shove hard and then use his mobility to roam and make plays. He is a good assasin because he has great wave Lear.
Memeing but also not rly, Yasuo is still played by many mid pros (his early is pretty strong, can win all in versus anyone and is unstoppable in 2v2 mid jg scenario). But yeah, he is like the only one. Next at least somewhat viable midlaners (as counterpicks or really niche role) are things like Kassadin, Fizz, Ekko (last two being good situational Syndra counterpick), but yeah, if you don't have waveclear mid, at least in competitive, you are shitting in your team's nest.
Yas has pretty good waveclear...
Wukong doesn't have a windwall to block incoming damage from midlaners or a dash on 0 cooldown to dodge skillshots.
He also has mana costs, which aren't terrible, but do gate him somewhat.
by the time there are 5 mid you have pressed e enough times to be fed off of your lane opponent so you can literally smash your face into your keyboard and trade at least 2 for 1
When is yasuo even picked to defend a siege? He's picked for lane priority and side lane push. What I was trying to say is that yasuo survives the lane phase because of tools that lets him out play ranged mid laners meanwhile, wukong who you said has good waveclear with tiamat can't do that.
They have more than one person working in the balancehttps://www.reddit.com/design departments and no they don't coordinate
However it makes sense to lessen waveclear of non-waveclear champs (burst or sustain mages) while buffing waveclear of waveclear champs
Froggen signs with team tomorrow inc
Laughs in Froggen
It's already happening
Siphon Power (Q) Damage increased from 20/40/60/80/100 to 20/50/80/110/140
Chaos Storm (R) AP converter increased from 60% to 70%
But really all I wanted was that they made the second part of E actually hit someone
I don't think the problem with viktor is endgame damage. Or still damage in general. I would say the problem is with how E and R deliver their damage.
Also, viktor is one of those rare AP champs that need CDR and cant get it until later because he needs the 1st scepter upgrade to even stay relevant in midgame.
So much for that old philosophy of limiting power creep.
Really looks like Riot has no idea what they're doing as far as balancing goes, other than adjusting damage numbers and ratios. Do they understand that's not the only way to nerf or buff a champion?
How about they nerf her goddamn 600 range already; what business does a late game mage have with that much early game safety?
shes already strong and they buff her instead of other options, weird.
except shes not unless the player is called froggen. the tear/lost chapter nerfs hit her harder than any other champ.
Not true at all. There are an insane amount of anivia one tricks with good winrates in diamond. The champion is good.
cough cough Ryze cough cough
Hahahaha Increase Ryze's E 40 >>> 60 mana rank 1, reduce its splash to 100% >>> 50% damage, then nerf tear/chapter/archangels with no compensation to ryze, then buff his number one counter who isn't even doing badly at all ahhahah
*laughs in predator keystone*
Yeah, i actually do not know what the fuck are they doing.
I mean, she's not really strong unless you main her.
That's so many champions lol.
The people that actually do main Anivia will seriously 1v9 every game. I'm having flashbacks to smashing bot lane, top lane smashing, then a mid lane Anivia just... untouchable, delayed the game, got fed... 1v9. That's one of the scariest champions for me to see in champ select in ranked.
Man when did all this Anivia hate pop up? I feel like it’s a champion with plenty of opportunity to outplay on both sides.
The big thing that people hate about Anivia is that 90% of the time when you lane against her, once she hits 6 she basically just ults the waves over and over with little you can do to stop her. Her mana pool is the biggest gate to her ability to clear minions at that point.
Unless your champion is fantastic at waveclearing and can leave/come back quickly, you basically just have to deal with playing a farming simulator for the next however long because Anivia is incredibly safe while clearing the wave, and also clears it significantly quickly. It also makes it annoyingly difficult to siege objectives because of the extremely low risk with the permanent ability to clear very quickly.
Good Anivias can make good plays on her for sure, but her ability to stall out lanes with no interaction is nutty. I don't think she's a terrible champion, but I don't think her kit has aged very well either. It also doesn't help that she's already a pretty strong champion anyway.
Just my own opinion on that though.
Well, i guess you just don't play much anivia.
1-5, she can barely push back against a wave. Pick something oppressive like ziggs, xerath, velkoz or lux and you will have a fun time.
6-, her wave clear is pretty great. Just remember it is her ultimate and also the last channeling ultimate which is interrupted by hard CC (fiddle is more like windup). At this point, she is still really immobile and her ult range isn't something to boast about either. You could play something that roams very well like TF, Sol, Zed, Yasuo, tayilah. Or something that is really mobile like Leblanc, Kata, Ahri, Zoe, Diana. Or something with a long range CC that will take disable the ult like Syndra, Ori, Fizz to take advantage of those weaknesses.
Special mention, i find galio particularly difficult to deal with alone. This mixture of damage/CC/tankiness/end-game protector makes it very difficult to shutdown.
Anivia has no great match-up. Just match-ups that are slightly better than bad. I play anivia mainly against Yasuo and Zeds because it is mostly what i see on my server. But it is those other games where i have to pay attention to.
well there's a lot of things you can do to stop her lol, just dont be a scarecrow in lane and u're fine
Maybe if your name is Xerath but other than that nah.
anivia actually shits on xerath but ok if you say so
Match waveclear and poke because Anivia is long range and sits in back. Ziggs and Zoe maybe but they need to farm exclusively for the most part and can't poke at the same time.
hm no, any good anivia will catch him with wall and kill/ force flash if he ever dares to come out of his Q range
anivia shits on any immobile mage. don't fool yourself thinking that because he can clear from far away that he has a favorable matchup
the only mu's that anivia fears is kassadin and a good orianna
Anivia is a fair and balanced champion, just learn to play against her. The only matchups Anivia is bad into is a niche champ and one out of the meta. Make up your mind at least.
most of her mu's are skill based, kass/ ori are the only ones she loses hard
you just hate her because you're salty tbh
I do hate Anivia because the only skill expression the champ has is walling people into stuns, something which I could teach my dog to do. However, my hatred for Anivia has literally nothing to do with what I'd said. "Skill-based" doesn't mean shit when the only skill involved is pressing R at every new wave and stalling until lategame.
So you're suggesting you a random miserable redditor who's probably a /bronzesilver/gold has better game knowledge than game devs and competitive teams.
You come here to vomit your unwanted opinion, that is btw, wrong.
Reddit being reddit lul so fcking sad.
He's finished low diamond the last couple of seasons, currently at a 48% win rate in plat 3 according to his op.gg that he linked in his flair.
So yes, he clearly knows better than every competitive team.
you're listing parts of her kit to make her seem op, but you actually have no idea wtf you're talking about. for real.
Nah man not only does he know better than the balance team, but also every pro team that just don't know how shes broken. He knows his anivia shit my dude, who are you?
Please explain. If you're going to downvote me please form a coherent argument and show me wrong.
Otherwise do others a favor and shut up if all you're telling them is "lul you're clueless" without being constructive.
Lol at using nutty to describe a boring situation
It's a fairly low interaction champion with a boring playstyle will little to no counterplay in many match ups? The WR has been absurdly high for a long time now.
Thats not really why people hate her. They hate her because she is great at punishing mistakes. No one likes to be made a fool of for his mistakes and Anivia does just that.
graves flair that fires that stupid ass W on you
soo interactive, right
I didnt expect this much anivia hate myself, but i hate that champion for 8 years straight tbh
Unfun to play against. (Ignore my flair).
well I don't particularly hate anivia but it's really unfun and uninteractive after anivia hits 6 and especially if the game drags out you're just never able to siege anything without baroni
Nice flair buddy.
this matchup is slightly in talon's favor in my opinion having played loads of games vs anivia, its just that i really fucking hate the bird
If by slightly you mean Talon gets to do whatever Talon wants to do I agree.
I like when she isn't popular just becouse it's not pick or ban. I feel like many players can't play around her abilities, as a main I feel good about it. :>I don't see the problems with those buffs it's only cdr and ap ratio on Q, her problems are the mana at early game, those changes won't do to much.
Lets be serious for a second though, in terms of competitive, there is only player that has picked her up and used her well recently is Faker from my knowledge(although I might be missing some people, i dont have enough time to watch every league pro game), and im not sure she is going to be meta in competitive anytime soon.
Obviously, Froggen is Froggen, and if he gets signed, he will be a beast on Anivia, but we all know whats going to happen if he gets signed and gets Anivia cough excel esports feelsyikersman cough
playing against anivia is just boring, these are just placebo buffs but people are gonna play her more and i do think that anivia is not healthy as a champ. not saying shes op
Playing as Anivia is boring too, but hey! At least we're winning.
I like it when anivia is meta.. she is a fun champ that doesn't have 10000 different dashes.
Yeah, pressing R to clear wave is damn fun and interactive.
True, but atleast Akali is aggressive.
Aggressive should be the only viable playstyle, right? /s
No, it shouldn't. However I do believe that most people find aggression more fun that passive waveclearing.
Anivia is more versatile tho. Can be aggressive but can also zone and cockblock very well, can stall out the games and control objectives. Akali is just dumb as fuck statcheck that you either nuke or she uses combination of ult stacks, shroud and Zhonya's to outplay.
I mean if you put it that way, sure. That is also one of the reasons they are reworking Akali.
I honestly can’t think of a more boring champ to play against
I like Anivia being meta.
People bitch about any champ, it's amazing.
its 2 sec cooldown off Q until level 10, and 80%-90% ratio for Q double hit, its not something that will make her insane, but it sure as fuck is a noticeable buff
Except for the part where Anivia doesn't use Q on cooldown and getting hit by both parts of Q means exactly the same at 80% AP ratio than 90%. The cases where these changes are impactful are rare.
It's definitely not why people pick Anivia but ok
it doesnt matter whats she is fucking picked for, her Q just got buffed
You realize this doesn't really do anything right? LOL reddit btw
u are making a statement that is not true and being a smartass about it
this doesn't really do anything
it does, its not something she is picked for and its not a huge buff, but its a buff, and thread isnt about anivia being op but rather riots attempt to make her good again, which in my opinion sucks because they might continue in this direction if they feel like you that this buff isnt enough
it's not gonna be noticeable lol, this is a textbook placebo buff.
Q cd is only reduced in the early states of the game where she already goes oom faster than any other champion in the game. when does anivia ever Q off cooldown in lane? and that small of an AP ratio increase for a champion that builds tear->ROA->orb.... it's not gonna change anything. the ability itself also has nothing to do with why people dislike when anivia is meta.
u replied to me but u didnt read what i wrote.... read the second part
thread isnt about anivia being op but rather riots attempt to make her good again
if you legitimately believe this is the case, please tell me all about the recent changes they have done to anivia "to make her good again".
let's be real here for a second: you are talking completely out of your fucking ass, because outside of generic bug fixes and the famous W nerf many months ago, Anivia hasn't had a single ability changed since November 2016.
her playrates have been terrible for the longest time, so really, stop fucking freaking out when she gets the most irrelevant buff. if you had half a brain you'd realize she is entirely dependant on how good her meta items and runes are. the reason she has been played the past few months is because the AP items were changed, and those items have already been nerfed. she's not at all that good anymore.
Wait, did you actually say it doesn't do anything? You really shouldn't be making comments on anything balanced related if you think 2 seconds off her q early means nothing.
Not sure if you play Anivia often, but the only help this has is if you're in danger and need the Q. But you shouldn't be in danger because you're Anivia and play safe as all hell. Anivia never throws out Q randomly or to poke unless she's safe, in which case 2s isn't a huge deal.
Its more of a placebo buff to give her a little poke. If they were buffing her waveclear i'd say sure you have a point.
I play her all the time. I'm aware she doesn't just toss them out, but it's still a nice buff. And I've got no idea what you're on about with the wave clear, because I was under the impression she was supposed to suffer early for having free wave clear once 6. Having a less dangerous to use q will make it even easier to get there. >>
i see anivias use q to kill the casters as she fades away after tossing it all the time. its her pre-6 waveclear
This requires level 3 Q, this buff really doesn’t have much impact until late late game.
Anivia is far from op. Actually the recent mana changes (base stats, tear, lost chapter) hit her really hard. A friend of mine spammed Anivia all time but stopped playing her after the nerfs on his main since she feels so bad to him now. I kind of agree that her playstyle is annoying and uninteractive to face but thats kind of her identity. Apart from that the buffs do not enhance her pushing power she simply gets a small power up on her Q promoting W second max more than Q second.
All mages hit by the mana nerf was impacted. For example, to play Ahri you always run out of mana really quickly now. So yeah mana riot just nerfed it across the board with barely any compensation
Thats for sure but hard shovers who spammed spells (cass,taliyah) and mana drain champs (Anivia) got hit harder than champs who simply built ludens and clear a wave with 2-3 spells. Statiscally most mids stayed at their previous winrate, Anivia,Cass and Tali on the other hand dropped by roughly 2-3%. I guess it is good for Anivia to be nerfed somehow but getting dropped so hard for not even individual reasons just seems wrong and I am glad they at least adjust her a bit.
But that nerf was good, mid was dominated by the best wave clear so every champion that goes there must have waveclear but doesn't suffer because mana regen and CDR is too easy to get.
Having a good reliable waveclear should be a clear strength of a champion (like Ziggs, Lux, Taliah, Anivia) and not a part of everyone's kit.
Shouldve only nerfed problematic ones and not all the Mages. Like Anivia is getting buffed because of the mana nerf. If waveclear was broken on some champ, then nerf the mana cost on them. That is all. No need to nerf all Mages.
Cant have her dropping below 50% wr (49.5% to be exact) for the first time in 3 years, quick hotfix some buffs!
Meanwhile riven at 47% for the whole season and this season has been nothing but radio silence with indirect nerfs over and over.
Let shojin patch come
Whiny Riven mains lol. People who mained Shen never whine about that 24/7.
This champion is so toxic and unhealthy ... sick of playing against her
i wish they realized her toxic play pattern of hit 6 and instant clear/stall forever then never die rather than her mana issues
they seem to acknowledge toxic waveclear with other champs in the past like taliyah and ziggs.. not sure why anivia doesn't apply when she's just as obnoxious
God I hate the toxic playstyle of assassins one shotting me.
God I hate the toxic playstyle of tanks never dying.
God I hate the toxic playstyle of enchanters protecting the adc.
God I hate the toxic playsyle of champions doing the thing that they are designed to do.
I hate God
he's fucking broken dude
Not hating fightersHate everything else
Spotted the Kled main :)
God I hate the toxic playstyle of hashinshin
Although I agree with you, just pick someone that is ranged and scales. She'll have almost 0 kill potential unless you mess up, and otherwise it's a free farm lane for you.
Anivia is just never gonna be meta (not in competitive, not in soloqueue) and no buff like this one is ever gonna change that. The only way she'd truly become OP is if they were to mess up by overtuning her ability to waveclear (like they did in patch 6.10). Waveclear power is however just what they crippled in the last patch. You can make a case for it being kinda unhealthy (and I would actually agree) but a mere waveclear-bot is pretty much what they made her into ever since they removed the E+R interaction. They openly stated they wanted to reduce her agency to trade in lane, so my question is how is she even expected to survive laning to begin with if not by safely waveclearing.
Then they just woke up last patch and decided waveclearing is unhealthy overall. At this point I really think it would just be time to rework her again and I hope this topic making it to 2nd page can raise some attention on the matter.
anivia is never going to be meta unless they change how the baron buff protects the wave from her R
She is pretty meta. Just boring and hard to learn which keeps all the zed mains away from playing her.
and hard to learn
summoners waiting to respawn
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