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69

Bye bye size-increase/decrease... :(

Hope everyone can learn to enjoy tiny Hulks.

I know you have sort of addressed the visual artifacts but is it possible to have the visual effects transferred from an artifact onto an unique? Some uniques, Mzee's shell and Apocalypse's armor have "increase size" for example, have some visual effects on the item itself.

--

Asros said:

So, here is some bad news. We will be removing flat size increase or decrease from items. Our modelers and vfx artists have begged for this for a long time, as it makes building visuals, costumes even more time consuming to have to account for different sizes. We plan to, for the most part, move these instead to procs on the item to grow/shrink for a few seconds instead of being huge/tiny all the time. We know some players really enjoy these affixes and sympathize, but the back end downside is too great.

96 comments
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level 1
53 points · 1 year ago

That's sad, Giant Hulkbuster was the one thing I liked about playing Iron Man atm.

level 2
Mutie lover from way back6 points · 1 year ago

Tiny Hulkbuster is my fav. :(

level 3

Don't worry. Hulkbuster will still be smaller than Rocket "Raccoon".

level 3

Tiny Hulk with Christmas costume is the only hulk for me.

RIP Santa's Elf Hulk. :<

level 2

He's still a giant compared to everyone else. No other costume even comes close to his size.

level 3

hell, it makes his own visual effects look puny. Haha

level 1

Damn it, my Colossus was really a hulking Colossus. I'm gonna miss when Hulk only reached his waistline.

level 2
16 points · 1 year ago

Colossal Colossus members! There are dozens of us!

level 2
3 points · 1 year ago · edited 1 year ago

I remember when I had a Colossus at least 2 or 3 times as tall as the ledge at the x-mansion crafter, I was disappointed when they limited stacking the effect to 3x. When you wore the outback costume, it looked like everyone was staring at your tiny shorts. I'm using Hyde's formula these days, the temporary size change is growing on me, but it should produce a variety of visual effects for different characters instead of just hyde/hulk green.

level 1
[deleted]
16 points · 1 year ago

That sucks. Default hulk certainly doesn't seem big enough to me... Or juggernaut... Or colossus.

level 1

So I understand the reasoning but if they're gonna do this then they should by default make some characters larger/smaller than they are.

Characters like Kitty Pryde and Wolverine should be -1 from default (and have that made their default). Colossus should be +2, Jugg/Hulk +3, etc

Though I'm gonna miss my +3 Colossus either way.. hopefully they'll at least be smart enough to modify some model's baseline.

But mostly I don't understand why they would bother removing it if the effect is still going to exist (in the form of procs)? Like if it's going to be there, and require modeler'ss/vfx time to make it for those procs, then it takes 0 time to allow that enlarge effect to then be made into a passive one. They have to account for the same thing regardless.

level 2

Maybe it was told in the wrong order? They actually want to have procs for size increases but that works poorly with static size increases (above a limit)?

level 2

So I understand the reasoning but if they're gonna do this then they should by default make some characters larger/smaller than they are.

They've done a bit of this with AoU Hulkbuster (being larger than most) and Civil War Spidey (being shorter than other Spidey costumes), so maybe that's something they're looking at.

But mostly I don't understand why they would bother removing it if the effect is still going to exist (in the form of procs)? Like if it's going to be there, and require modeler'ss/vfx time to make it for those procs, then it takes 0 time to allow that enlarge effect to then be made into a passive one. They have to account for the same thing regardless.

The main difference that comes to mind is that the procs will only occur in combat areas and only for short amounts of time. I don't know what their underlying problem is, but it could deal with hubs or having lots of players in the same space. Collision issues maybe? I dunno.

level 1

This makes no sense whatsoever. Their visuals guys wanted them to remove size modifications from the game, so they're removing the artifact affixes... but still leaving them in as procs? How does that make any fucking sense at all?

level 2
10 points · 1 year ago · edited 1 year ago

It really doesn't. Modelers and vfx would still have to account for the different sizes as proc. So what Asros said is the reasoning, doesn't make sense at all.

level 3
6 points · 1 year ago

Sounds more like they can whip up some quick effects for a proc, that just takes current appearance and makes it jump up a bit. The bonus here, is since its a temp buff and proc they do not have to be visually perfect and require the kind of work and input that now needs.

Since you can adjust size now, and it is a constant feature, the visuals have to be tuned that much more. So that things are still appropriate at whatever scale is taken. It really is a bit of a back end pain and resource drain.

There is a reason a number of other games limit this to exactly what they are changing this to, procs.

level 2
3 points · 1 year ago

You won't look at them as long so the quality can be worse.

level 3
1 point · 1 year ago · edited 1 year ago

Ah, just what MH's tired old 2013 graphics need, the ability to further reduce the quality of models.

level 2
I'm the Huggernaut!5 points · 1 year ago

Alright, as a dev (granted not for games) I figure my input might help explain it since nobody else has. We know right now that there are seven different size levels by default, +/- 1/2/3 along with the normal state. There might be nine if you can go larger/smaller via procs at max/minimum, but I don't think you can. Point being - when you're working on vfx (particles, re-scaling ability sizes, even other costume affixes like glowing eyes), it becomes a bitch and a half when you realize you need to account for at least 7 goddamn variations. This change will bring it down to, at most, 3 (assuming they'll still scale with procs), which is less than half of their former time (again this all depends on if size changes happen or not at max size).

I haven't seen their back end, just commenting on what's more apparent from the front end.

level 3
[deleted]
4 points · 1 year ago

Theyve never accounted for these, purple eyes stays massive on miniature antman, and alll other vfx also stay the same size, try using one of the orb or spotlight effects on a massive character. Their excuses just make no sense, only thing it might effect is animations.

level 3

You can still set the limit to 1 increase/decrease instead of removing them from the game altogether...

level 4
I'm the Huggernaut!-1 points · 1 year ago

That's what they're doing via procs.

level 5

Yes I know. Try to keep up.

level 6
I'm the Huggernaut!0 points · 1 year ago

I explained that in my post, I thought you read it since you replied to it.

level 7

Yes, you did properly note that they will need to have 3 sizes as opposed to 7 to account for the procs. What I am saying is, since they still are having 3 sizes, why REMOVE that affix from artifacts? Why not STILL allow us to utilize that increase/decrease via artifact? (keeping in mind that since the max is 1 level of size increase/decrease, proccing a size increase when you already are increased in size would obviously have no effect)

level 8
I'm the Huggernaut!0 points · 1 year ago

Then you should've said that more clearly - the likely reason is so they can skimp on a few vfx here and there, since the effects will usually be temporary. Or because removing the option of permanent size modifications will simplify a lot of things for them.

level 1

This sucks. Using three visual decrease effects was the only way to make Wolverine the correct height.

level 2

I respectfully disagree.

level 2
Original Poster9 points · 1 year ago

Yeah, they really should go look at people's height in relativity to one-another. Someone go buy Gaz a Marvel Height Chart. Jen Walters should be a head taller than Cap. Wolverine should come up to Hulk's mid-thigh, etc.

level 3

Visual clarity > lore

level 2
[deleted]
5 points · 1 year ago

Yes! I hate what Hollywood has done to Wolverine's appearance. He is and always should be 4 feet tall.

level 3
Original Poster17 points · 1 year ago

lol, I mean, like 5'4"-ish, but yeah.

level 2

I know I'll miss my super tiny wolvie

level 3

Yea, love riding tiny wolvie around on his tiny bike

level 1

This is bullshit. booooo

level 1

This is only acceptable if the vfx animators can get characters mouths to actually move when speaking randomly and in cutscenes. How silly is it during the Airport Showdown when Cap said, "I won't go down without a fight," and his mouth doesn't move at all.

Oddly enough Rocket Raccoon has an animation where his mouth does move.

level 2
Original Poster6 points · 1 year ago

I understand the logistics of getting actors to record new lines... but it was funny to me that they just used recycled stuff for the Civil War fights.

level 3

"You picked the wrong side" was pretty lucky

level 2

Everyone having the same pose bothers me. You'll see Angela, black cat, and Jean all standing next to each other with the same off balance stance with their hip out with the same body ratio.

level 3
8 points · 1 year ago

That's just staying true to the comics.

level 1

I worked my ass of for all those size goobers for my Juggernaught... I quit.

level 1
11 points · 1 year ago

Who would have thought what the modelers and vfx artists want is priority over the people who are spending money to keep the game going.

level 2

it makes building visuals, costumes even more time consuming

This was a money decision. Faster costumes means more costumes to sell.

level 1

this makes no sense. if you move it to the procs, the modelers will STILL have to account for the different sizes. how the heck is this less work?

level 2

If it only lasts for a few seconds, it doesn't have to look flawless.

level 1
6 points · 1 year ago

Bad move. Hero size IS important to players. Having said that there is nothing more we can do. Gaz is in charge and they are letting us ALL know that with this and other unilateral moves recently.

Grin and bear it or not.

level 1
19 points · 1 year ago · edited 1 year ago

What total bullshit. Using those visuals was the only way to have correct character height. Now smaller heroes like Wolverine and Jean Grey will be same size as Hulk and Colossus. So fucking stupid.

This might come off as hyperbole to some, but for me personally, this is one of the most disappointing changes they could have made and I've been playing since launch. I took pride in making my characters the correct size.

Horrible move Gaz. I'm pissed about this. This is the beginning of the end for me.

EDIT: I had planned on buying all the preorder packs for the remaining new heroes to be released. But not anymore. This is one customer that Gaz can count as a lost sale(s). My wallet is officially closed to Marvel Heroes.

level 2

Same here.... what a shitty decision and even more shitty reasoning.

Please Asros, lie more.

level 1
Comment deleted1 year ago(1 child)
level 2

Yes dude, that is the whole point of playing Juggs, get big, scream: "POWER UP!!", and grabbed k.o.'d opponents whole bodies with one hand and laugh in their face.

level 1

why don't you shrink them down to Micronaut size to make easier on your back end

level 1
It's Clobberin Time3 points · 1 year ago

but super tiny Antman was perfect

level 1

Apparently you can't bitch about this on their forums or they delete the thread and give you a warning.

level 1
3 points · 1 year ago

What the hell is the point of putting this shit to procs? If they're gonna be taking it out, just take it out.

level 1

Oh look! Gaz being even more lazy! What a shock! First events that are over and over the exact same thing, just reskinned. Now this.

level 1
11 points · 1 year ago

We know everyone is going to hate this, but fuck the players. Now we can fire some more employees.

level 2
15 points · 1 year ago

I know you are being cynical but you are not far off. Whoever at Gaz made this call should not be part of the decision making process. This kind of decision makes me worried for the game's future.

"Let's make it easier for our dev team. Damn what the players want".

That kind of thinking will kill this game. And this decision is a perfect example of that.

level 1
5 points · 1 year ago

I hope to see a huge increase in VUs and better detailed costumes then if this is the case... Huge bummer. Loved my giant hulk and tiny rocket. :/

level 1

In short; wah too hard. That's a shame and disturbing.

level 1
2 points · 1 year ago

WTF, HULK SAD!

level 1

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

level 1
2 points · 1 year ago

Goodbye max size decrease Ant-Man. Literally unplayable.

level 1
3 points · 1 year ago

This make me really really sad :(

Can we at least increase / decrease default model size for certain heroes such as rocket, juggernaut, hulk, colossus, etc? Should at least make the sizes consistent for the artists

level 1
4 points · 1 year ago

This makes me sad. I was going to put three size decreases on Juggs.....oh well....tiny juggernaut will just be a dream then...

level 2
Original Poster6 points · 1 year ago

I was going to put three size decreases on Juggs...

Most people try to increase the size of juggs :)

level 3
3 points · 1 year ago

I'm certainly in favor of large Juggs.

Um, we ARE still talking about the hero, right? I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that... ;)

level 3

Juggs is already a bit of a handful to deal with. Making him too big would be a waste.

level 1
4 points · 1 year ago

Another sign that this game is dying out. Save your money.

level 2
Make mine 2099!3 points · 1 year ago

But we know that the player base won't be shrinking in the future.

level 3
1 point · 1 year ago

Oh my god.

level 2

Totally agree. They won't get another dime from me.

level 1

Jesus, atleast pretend you guys will implement it in the future. I prefer to be deceived than see this feature gone forever.

level 1

I'm gonna miss my tiny Wolverine. ):

level 1
Objection!1 point · 1 year ago

I had a giant human torch flying around all the time. Gonna be a bummer not setting everything ablaze!

level 1

I never really use most visual effects, so this doesn't matter much to me but it does seem kind of crappy to the players it does matter to.

What I don't understand is how the proc to make character grow/shrink for a few seconds is any easier on the artists than always on visuals.

And if this is the case shouldn't they make the larger characters a size larger and the shorter characters a size shorter? It may not be perfect but they should at least throw that bone.

level 1
1 point · 1 year ago

What a shame...

level 1
1 point · 1 year ago

I'm going to miss my Tiny Ant Man:-(

level 1

I hope that when they implement this they tweak a few character's default heights, like making all the Hulk skins at least one size bigger than the current default.

Even though I use this on a few of my characters I won't miss it too badly. I mean, it was always a weird feature to have in a game about playing as licensed superheroes, right? Think of these comments from an outsider's perspective; players professing love for the ability to set the scale of how tall characters like Iron Man or Kitty Pryde are, in a game with hardly any other customization options that really touch how a character looks besides setting skins. I'm surprised this decision wasn't handed down from some Disney brand manager who found out there's a game where you can make Squirrel Girl taller than She-Hulk, etc.

level 1

What makes it different if it only grows / shrinks for a limited amount of time in comparison to permanent changes? The amount of work has to be brought up in both cases or am I wrong?

level 1

Okay that's reallllly dissapointing. Gad damn it... :/

level 1

Good bye mini Rocket. You were much loved.

level 1

Oh boy. Really looking forward to the having to see the gigantic child that is default size Sam Alexander Nova again.

level 1
[deleted]
1 point · 1 year ago

This is awful. So many of the models are too fucking small!

level 1
1 point · 1 year ago · edited 1 year ago

I just find this a smack in the face to every player who had to dumb down their builds to keep their characters accurate, cartoonish small or... larger than life. This is just simply laziness. How hard can it be to make a scaled skin? design the skin on the max height.... scale it down. Nothing gets lost. I haven't even played in a couple months due to gaming with pals. It's just absurd.

level 1

Great totally looking forward to seeing rocket up to Groot's chest when they're running side by side.

level 1
1 point · 1 year ago

wonder if the shrinking artifact (not serum, the one you got from the antman box) will turn into something different then. still have a bunch of those around :/

level 2

Sounds like the shrink is just going to turn into a proc like the visuals that appear when you brutally strike or whatever.

level 1

That sucks. I find the default size of toons too small, i always at least +2 if not go all the way to +3 on all of mine.

level 1

This is really disappointing to me. I have fun changing the sizes with these affixes. A couple of times I have gone out and purchased costumes just for the sole purpose on increasing/decreasing the size. The fact that this is being removed is pretty upsetting.

The animation quality better be improved because of this. It is already worse enough that we haven't had any significant content outside of heroes and team-ups in a while. Now you are literally just taking things away from the players.

level 1

On the one hand -

HULK...

SMASH SMALLER NOW!

On the other, with the option available I really wanted to have 3 size increase artifacts equipped, which limited build options. If it's no longer going to be an option, HULK NOT FEEL PUNY NEXT TO SAME-SIZE HULK! and the most optimal artifacts can be used.

level 1
In an alternate Marvel Universe I'm called Papa John.1 point · 1 year ago

Our modelers and vfx artists have begged for this for a long time, as it makes building visuals, costumes even more time consuming to have to account for different sizes.

If you want to cut out even more time and make their jobs easier, you could always stop making quick cash grab costumes and/or reskins.

level 1
Melee1 point · 1 year ago

as it makes building visuals, costumes even more time consuming to have to account for different sizes.

Okay! So now we they'll have more time with other things? Fixing terrible faces, fixing costume colors, fixing other visuals? Right Right Right? We've been begging for a long time as well.

level 1
To Me, My X-Men1 point · 1 year ago

Does this mean now each Hero will be realigned as per their lore ?

level 1

Great news! Having demi-humans and giants running around is not a great look for the game, in my opinion.

level 2

Had to scroll all the way to the bottom to find someone else who thought this had a jarring effect on the game :p

level 1
The name's not "Peace Machine."0 points · 1 year ago

But... but my giant mass of missile-spewing capitalism....

Well, now I'm able to switch to a different artifact instead of my size-booster gear on Iron Man.

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