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121

Juniper shooting themselves in the foot

An individual can't afford their training.

So I'm studying for Junipers security track and was about to pull the trigger on their Junos Genius program ($250 - 12 month very reasonable) thinking it gives complete access to their on-demand catalog.

Boy was I wrong.

An on-demand course for an entry level certificate like the JNCIS-SEC is $4,000!

That's just a smidge unreasonable. Unless your employer is paying for this, there's no way in hell people are buying this on their own.

If we compare Junipers learning resources to Cisco, they stand no chance. One can go and buy official and third party books to study Cisco's courseware. With Juniper, they don't even have a hardcover on Amazon.

Junos offers amazing functionality. It's a shame that their locking everyone out of learning it. Oh, and that Genius program for $250 a year? It's for taking practice tests...

EDIT (In addition)

When starting out in this industry you learn Cisco.

If you want the CCNA (the de-facto entry level networking certificate) you can buy the hardcover for less than $50.00 off of Amazon.

This is my main gripe with Juniper. They have a similar certification program that directly matches Cisco in the naming convention yet they don't have the training or resources to back it up at a reasonable price structure.

Juniper: to have more people knowledge of your product is never a bad thing. Please make it more accessible and affordable.

95 comments
93% Upvoted
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level 1
CCENT, CCDA, JNCIA, VCP461 points · 8 days ago

MS certs, and even Cisco certs, are sought after for professional, as they have universal clout no matter what company you want to work for. Juniper certs are a little more specialized, and I would never get one unless an employer was paying for it.

level 2
Comment deleted7 days ago
level 3
Original Poster26 points · 7 days ago

Exactly. Make education accessible!

level 4
AMA TP-Link,DrayTek and SonicWall5 points · 7 days ago

Juniper was on a good track for awhile with their fast track program but I believe they shut that down

level 4
CCIE DC1 point · 7 days ago

Yeah F5 redid their program a few years ago but they made the testing program so restrictive and put everything on a 2yr renewal cycle that it's not worth dealing with unless you enjoy having a 90 day renewal window where you can't even go into the schedule tool to book the exam until it starts.

level 3

Wasn't it CatOS? I remember working on some old switches that used CatOS. Few differences but not a lot (union vs rugby sort of differences)

level 2
CCNP | ISP Operations1 point · 7 days ago

Juniper certs are a little more specialized, and I would never get one unless an employer was paying for it.

I don't know man. Juniper guys get paid more where I'm at. And Juniper isn't "more specialized" they just have less market share. I'm working towards my JNCIP-SP because I'm at an ISP and we have a ton of Juniper on the network.

level 3
CCENT, CCDA, JNCIA, VCP4-2 points · 7 days ago

Cisco and MS certs carry weight throughout networking and sysadmin roles from the smallest of businesses to the largest of companies. Juniper certs - not so much. You need to be an ISP or have a pretty robust network before even thinking about using Juniper gear, so the certs just aren't as universally useful.

level 4
CCNP | ISP Operations1 point · 7 days ago

You need to be an ISP or have a pretty robust network before even thinking about using Juniper gear

With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you want to even try to quantify your statements or are you just talking out of your ass?

level 5
CCENT, CCDA, JNCIA, VCP4-1 points · 7 days ago

sure. I have worked in IT for 12 years, and currently work at a MSP. We are part of a couple national peer groups of other MSPs and sysadmins - 100 or so other companies, supporting thousands of SMB networks across the country. There is literally no one in our group that chooses to support Juniper gear amongst us. It's not because of price or reseller perks, it's because non-IT people don't know who Juniper is, and they don't do anything better than Cisco or HPE in the SMB space. We used to sell the Juniper SSG as our firewall of choice, but we were doing that before Juniper bought Netscreen. When they decided to sunset the SSG line, we removed them from our vendor list all together.

level 1
64 points · 7 days ago

I work for Juniper - and it was HARD for me to get approval to take our own courses.... we have to PAY THE RETAIL PRICE on them within our departments now, so if you think juniper is shooting themselves in the foot externally imagine what's going on INTERNALLY.

level 2
Original Poster23 points · 7 days ago

Wow! Now that’s just silly.

level 2

I work for them too. You should be getting 50% off courses if you are an employee unless they are taught by a 3rd party partner. Are you in JTAC, SE, or PS? Any of those groups normally has a decent training budget.

level 3

They do have a decent budget, however, JTAC pays the training department or whatever for certification vouchers.

level 4

Yeah our dept. pays the training dept. as well.

level 5

training is not the same as certification, fwiw.

level 2
BOFH2 points · 7 days ago

This is sad to hear. Some of the products are excellent and I'd hate to have to give them up or find replacements if JNPR went to crap, but the way the biz side over there is run just seems bizarre sometimes.

level 2

Are you working in TAC? CR or RO?

level 2
Studying Cisco Cert1 point · 7 days ago

Wowza. And to think we used to complain at EMC because they cut almost all instructor led trainings in favor of online video training.

level 2

That's interesting. I don't work for Juniper, but I get to take classes and exams for free. I thought Juniper employees got the same perks.

level 2

I lost all hopes.

level 1
JNCIEx215 points · 8 days ago

The O'Reilly Junos Security isn't hardcover, but it's a really great resource for the JNCIS/JNCIP

level 1
JNCIS-SEC41 points · 8 days ago

The "official" classroom-based classes are always $3-4k from any vendor. Wether it's on-site, online, or on-demand. Pricing has been that way for a long time. It's always companies paying for them, or people paying with credits they got with an order.

level 2
31 points · 8 days ago

My local community college offers Cisco classes. $1200 for all 4 CCNA classes, $900 for all 3 CCNP classes... They are the official "Networking Academy" courses and don't even require buying a textbook (you get the free material online).

level 3
DRINK-IE and LINKSYS-IE1 point · 7 days ago

Those were good days. Would do them again if I could.

level 3
-26 points · 7 days ago(14 children)
level 4

Point taken, but if your goal is just to pass the CCNA or CCNP, the books or other study methods are not going to teach you "market/trends" any better than a class. I'm one of those people who prefer a structured classroom environment to learn, otherwise I end up losing focus.

level 4
esteemed fruit-loop9 points · 7 days ago

The market trends of using classfull subnetting?

level 4

I took several of these courses and not a single teacher didn't have a full time job as an engineer and taught at night for some side cash

level 5

This. My Network course at a CC was taught by a guy who was a Sr Network Admin for GM.

level 5

Did we go take the same classes lol? I also had a professor who taught night classes as a side thing. He used to work for a ISP but I think he said he switched to a different ISP Como any and works from home now

level 4
26 points · 7 days ago

Wow.. I hope some day it occurs to you that there are people who want to teach and want you to succeed. Their success isn't based solely on money.

level 5

Plus, teaching at CC is an awesome job if you’re full time faculty.

level 4
7 points · 7 days ago

This may be the situation for you, but that's not the situation at my community college. Many professors are working in the market and teaching in the evenings, or have done well in the market, and wanted to spend more time with family, traveling, or simply not being on-call. I know a great network engineer who I've worked with that left his job to teach. Either way, the teachers have to be certified as teachers for these Cisco classes, and must be certified in the technology that they're teaching.

level 4

The majority of teachers I had were consultants on the side who made a healthy respectable income and enjoyed teaching. The problem is IT is so full of antisocial asshats as yourself that they can't fathom someone preferring teaching to not interacting with another human.

level 4

$$$ isn't everything? Some people want to teach networking at a community college? I took Cisco classes at my high school and community college, never got a cert, but still really benefited from having a good introduction to fundamentals and access to a good lab. The lab at my high school was pretty limited but at Sacramento City College was great, and my friend told me they have an even better lab at San Francisco City College.

Since self-teaching is so important the instructor doesn't need to be awesome. Just be able to teach basic stuff like subnetting and the layered model pretty well, and keep the lab in good shape so students can go through the advanced stuff with good resources.

level 4
BOFH2 points · 7 days ago

It's not necessarily a full-time job. A lot of these classes are designed to be taught by full-time employed professionals with classes primarily full of full-time employed professionals.

level 5

When I was trying to find a local trade school to teach, the only ones around here wanted full time faculty. They wanted to pay $40k/yr.

I laughed.

level 6
BOFH1 point · 7 days ago

Ouch. Yeah, if I could do it one or two evenings a week or on a saturday I'd probably think about doing something, even if it didn't pay a lot. The local community college here takes on part-time faculty. Pay isn't anything great but as a side gig for beer money...

level 6

That sounds like the hiring department has no clue about IT. They will learn.

level 2
CCNA Security; CCNA R&S1 point · 7 days ago

My CCNA Sec course from Cisco Learning System was only $1500.

level 1
14 points · 8 days ago · edited 7 days ago

The exams are on the order of a few hundred dollars https://wsr.pearsonvue.com/vouchers/pricelist/junipernetworks.asp

The course is what costs you. You can easily buy a used Juniper off eBay, grab the manuals (https://www.juniper.net/documentation/), teach yourself everything there is to know about the hardware, and just pay to take the exam. A former co-worker did this on the Cisco side for his CCNA. Another former co-worker asked him about it and did the same for CCNA/CCNP. You’ll likely teach yourself a lot more than the course would.

I agree with you that these courses are mostly for people who already have jobs and their company wants them to get the cert.

EDIT: Apparently Juniper offers free virtual hardware with vSRX. You can use that too. I’m always a fan of grabbing real hardware if you can swing the cost though. You can always resell it when you’re done with it.

level 2
WHO AUTOMATES THE AUTOMATERS?21 points · 7 days ago

Forget buying used gear, just use vSRX. I use the free Vagrant box posted by Juniper. You can literally study for these exams with 0$ investment if you know where to look for resources online.

level 3

Exactly.

level 3

learning is not the same as being trained. i personally prefer your way and i did it myself like that, but some people just want to be ... told, taught, helped, re-explained... it is easier with a course, but it is more rewarding through self study.

level 2
BOFH5 points · 7 days ago

There's free vQFX too, last time I looked.

level 1

You can buy the on demand courseware for like 400 to 600 USD.

It's the exact same content as the course, but with no instructor.

level 2
used to be better1 point · 7 days ago

That's a good tip but it's still not really in the comfort zone for individuals.

Personally I'd spend maybe double the exam cost on learning resources but not 5x.

level 1

Full Disclosure: I work for Juniper

I agree the instructor-led course pricing is a bit high, but as others have pointed out, anything live and instructor lead is expensive regardless of vendor. I also wish they'd lower the prices of their on-demand online courses as I feel like those are higher than reasonable market rates. I will give them some slack with some of the reasons there is such a disparity in Cisco training and literally every other networking vendor. The advantage Cisco has is they have tens of millions of dollars they can sink into an education program, and pretty much no one else does. Putting together an ecosystem (product, training, and subsequently trained customers) is really hard to do without a ton of upfront capital to do it. As others have pointed out, certs at this point are useful, but no where near as useful as they were almost 20 years ago, so the ROI may not be there to make such a huge investment.

My only advice to Juniper would be this, lower the barrier to entry for courses and simply pay some people to update the previously written O'Reilly books.

As for my advice to you, I'd check out their open learning program. You can essentially get into an online JNCIA course plus a test at no cost. They fill up quick pretty quickly when they open up, but you can't beat free.

https://openlearning.juniper.net/

They also do free 1.5 to 2 hour webinars on basic to intermediate networking topics from time to time -

https://www.juniper.net/us/en/dm/jump-start-junos-webinars/

If you aren't super focused on certs and you simply want to material to help you with day to day Juniper technology topics that are immediately applicable to your work - check out the Day One books. They are all free and they are super handy with baseline configuration/deployment of a variety of things (SRX VPNs, IOS to JUNOS CLI comparisions, Fabric configurations etc).

https://www.juniper.net/us/en/training/jnbooks/

level 1
26 points · 8 days ago

It's a shame that their locking everyone out of learning it.

At one of my previous employers, I gave a Juniper MX router to our junior networking guy (I think he may have had CCNA, or maybe he was working towards one), gave him a couple of pointers to some documentation and told him "take this router and replace our Cisco router in the lab, make sure you retain all of the functionality". 1.5 days later it was done. He missed a couple of very small things, but our lab was fully functional.

Bottom line - if you know what you want to do (be it by knowing it or by copying it from some other existing piece of hardware), "learning juniper" can be easily done on the spot even by junior team members.

level 2

Yeah honestly if you know "networking" then really all you should need is a CLI reference guide. You don't need Juniper to explain subnetting to you.

I had a similar experience with Aruba devices - I'd never touched one before but day 1 at the new job they gave me a couple to throw in my homelab to learn. I found them to be super similar to the Cisco interface I was familiar with from CCNA, so it was pretty easy to get going. Now, 6 months later, with no formal training from Aruba, my coworkers and even our company's Aruba support engineer have mentioned in conversation how well and quickly I've learned the systems, even better than some of the guys the have been there for years. One thing I noticed different from Cisco was vlans are tagged/untagged instead of trunk/access, but I still knew the concept of vlans so it was just a matter of terminology.

Bottom line, learn the fundamentals the cheapest way you can, and from there it should be fairly easy to get going on almost anything out there. Likewise with programming, once you learn one language, most of the logic stays the same if you use a different language, just the syntax is a bit different. So once you know "programming" it's fairly easy to begin writing a program in almost any language.

level 3
used to be better1 point · 7 days ago

That's fine for basics but there are very different ways of doing things across vendors - on the SP side you'd never guess VRF table label, for example. IPSec VPN is very different on Juniper than ASA, even NAT behaves differently). The default behaviours aren't the same across vendors and, while it's usually possible to mimic brand C on other stuff, it may not be best practice to do so or could impose limitations that the "native" method wouldn't.

It's definitely worth learning the other vendor properly, especially if you're sticking something on the internet and don't want it participating in a DDoS.

level 4

you'd never guess VRF table label

Lol, this bit us just last week! But an hour of googling/experimentation sorted it out all the same. Of course, now I'm in "OJT fumbling through trying to get it to 'work'" mode, so it's entirely possible there's some nuanced reason I should have preferred another method. *That* is the real benefit of vendor training IMO. Like what you said here:

while it's usually possible to mimic brand C on other stuff, it may not be best practice to do so or could impose limitations that the "native" method wouldn't.

level 4
1 point · 7 days ago

Once you learn more than one it is much easier to separate "what actually is networking" from "vendor fluff on top of it".

I've got uh... "pleasure" of inheriting a "cost optimized" environment with Cisco switches, three types of Brocade switches (as in "straight up different OS ") and Juniper routers, and few Linux boxes functioning as network appliances and you do learn fast.

level 4
-1 points · 7 days ago

That's fine for basics but there are very different ways of doing things across vendors - on the SP side you'd never guess VRF table label, for example.

But you can google it ;)

Unless you constantly roll out new features (which is impossible, you will run out of them very quickly), there isn't really any significant issue with googling the way to configure something. Yes, it will take you longer to do the initial config, but since it's usually infrequent - not a big deal.

Where lack of experience with gear does come in though is with knowing all the gotchas that supposedly work and in practice don't (i.e. OTV between Cisco Nexus and ASR) and troubleshooting (hard to google your way out of problem without internet). And unfortunately most of that comes just from experience and not from certs...

level 5
used to be better1 point · 7 days ago · edited 7 days ago

If you've ever tried to work on someone's first SRX firewall which they built using Google you will notice it generates an awful lot of swears per minute.

Edit: more seriously, though, you wouldn't know to Google many of the quirks. For example if you question mark your way to forcing a failover on an SRX cluster you may think you've been successful because it failed over, but not realise you've left it forced so it won't react to link failures.

level 6

Then that person is a moron. Juniper’s failover documentation which is the first Google search result is like a 3 minute read and literally tells you exactly what commands to run. If someone can’t do that then I’m not sure any amount of training can help them.

level 7
used to be better1 point · 7 days ago

The point is it looks straightforward so you might be forgiven for thinking you don't need to read up on it... That's what gets you.

level 8

This is almost universally true to the point that I wonder what the point of stating it is. So much in this field seems trivial only to bite you. Changing spanning tree topology is just a stupid one that comes to mind. There is no excuse for not attempting to throughly understand a system’s failover behavior before performing it. Sorry but this is just nonsense.

level 9
used to be better1 point · 6 days ago

What's nonsense?

level 6

if you question mark your way to forcing a failover on an SRX cluster you may think you've been successful because it failed over, but not realise you've left it forced so it won't react to link failures.

And there's a question on this in Juniper certs?

Don't forget we are talking about cert vs google, not experience vs google. Experience will always win when it comes to operating gear.

level 7

Remember, the value of the certs isn't just in the questions they ask... maybe if you brandump your way to success, but if you've got reasonably well put together training material that covers those topics, and you're actually studying, you'll end up reading through that behavior a few times. You may or may not firmly commit it to memory, but you get exposure to Junipers "official" approach to a problem, so that your first real-world exposure isn't also your first exposure. The chances of you making any given rookie mistake are reduced.

level 8
used to be better2 points · 7 days ago

This is a more eloquent statement of the point I've been trying to make :D

level 8

Remember, the value of the certs isn't just in the questions they ask

Yes, the main value is to simplify job search.

As for learning something useful while preparing for those certs... You'll learn lots of acronyms, you will also learn what vendor wants you to think. It doesn't always represent the truth though. For example, Cisco likes to ask questions like "which FHRP will allow you to load-balance traffic across 2 routers?". The true answer is - any, because you can make R1 to be primary for Vlan1 and R2 to be primary for Vlan2 while using VRRP. But of course Cisco wants an answer of GLBP, as they want you to remember that their devices are special and are better than the rest.

level 9
used to be better1 point · 7 days ago

Yes, we're all cranky old cynics but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There is value to be had when you do the certifications with an awareness that the vendor is gong to try these tricks.

level 9

Yeah, and no one on this thread is arguing that we should blindly accept all such statements/preferences/biases from the vendors. Also no one's saying cert questions can't be stupid. They often are. But again, as long as you read the material with a critical eye and your primary objective is to learn, then you can gain much.

If you read cisco's cert prep material on FHRPs and all you walk away with is "Cisco likes GLBP because it's better than VRRP", then... well... you study bad. For someone new to the game they should be learning things like:

  • FHRPs exist, and solve a particular use-case (someone in a small or specialized shop might never run into them until they get embarrassed in an interview, otherwise)

  • Some of them can natively balance traffic across a single VLAN

  • Others can't, but can be balanced on a per-VLAN basis as you described

  • Several of them are cisco proprietary, but there's also one or more that's vendor neutral

That's the stuff that can turn 5 hours of googling and some disappointing false-starts into 1 hour of googling. It's not about "just pass the stupid test" any more than it's about "learn literally everything you'll need to know to operate at scale". It's about building familiarity with a broad variety of topics you might not otherwise have been exposed to, so that when you do run into them in the real world you stand a better chance of not fucking it up.

Again, reduce the frequency and severity of rookie mistakes.

level 7
used to be better1 point · 7 days ago

I've never done the Juniper security cert but I'd imagine there's some explanation of chassis cluster behaviour in there. Could be wrong...

level 8

I've never done the Juniper security cert but I'd imagine there's some explanation of chassis cluster behaviour in there.

Certs tend to have in them what is also available in documentation. So I would either expect this behavior to be well documented and be in the test (in which case Google will help you find the right answer), or to be not well documented in which case it's very unlikely to appear on exam as well.

level 2

Sure you can, but it would be nice if you could say give them a vMX VM and be able to play with it on a laptop with GNS3 instead of a lab.

giving away say 10Mbit limited vMX wouldn't cost Juniper any customers bout would give easy way for anyone wanting to learn

level 3

give them a vMX VM

You can do vSRX which is pretty similar (there are some small differences, kind of like IOS and NX-OS). In my case, the situation was simple - we already bought MX because it was twice as cheap as the ASR Cisco was offering, so I just needed to get a feel for how much training junior team members will need with the new platform. As it turned out - not much at all.

level 4
2 points · 7 days ago

Well the things I would want to test are different between those. I wanted to dump a production environment with little to no changes and put it on GNS3

In my case, the situation was simple - we already bought MX because it was twice as cheap as the ASR Cisco was offering, so I just needed to get a feel for how much training junior team members will need with the new platform. As it turned out - not much at all.

I did that when migrating our produciton, for similar cost reasons. I've read Junos Enterprise Routing, and Junos Cookbook, labbed a bit (turns out Rasbperry Pi and BIRD make for excellent emulator for BGP) and then just slowly switched over (we had a pair of routers so it was easy to keep redundancy). And I much prefer its syntax over cisco/cisco clones, and commit confirmed is a blessing

level 1
JNCIS-SSL,SEC,M/T/MX,FWV4 points · 7 days ago

I worked for Juniper for 3.5 years, had access to all the training books and lab routers, could study to my hearts content, and I got full training (plus troubleshooting and diagnostic training) when I was moving between team (SSL to Netscreen to M/T/MX - it's been a few years since then).

I've actually wanted to renew my certs to current, but I run into the same issue. No way in hell am I going to pay thousands personally, and my current job is a pure cisco/meraki shop. Right now, I'm working on my PAN FW cert, and they have ALL kinds of CBT training on their websites for customers and partners, more than enough to get you through the Cert. Granted they do also have instructor led courses, but for those of us that want that self-paced work, I think PAN did it right.

yeah, Juniper, if you're reading this: No. just no. seriously, it's time to get on par and be a bit more realistic.

level 1

Welcome to my past two weeks, Adam from Juniper Genius explained their whole training process Friday, and quite honestly I too am about to pull the plug on the JNCIP-ENT.

I am not about to pay 4K for training videos, yet that is probably the best equipment to pass the certification. I would not pay for Genius because that's mostly practice test. I don't want to waste time with CISCO because everyone literally has them, but Juniper isn't making it easier to decide.

level 1
CompTIA A+ Network+ Security+3 points · 7 days ago

Our Juniper partner gave us education credits when we purchased switches and service.

level 1

My question is, why would you invest in Juniper’s certs? All the arguments against Cisco certifications (which are increasingly strong) also apply to Juniper and other vendor certifications. But on top of that, they have much less market share. It’s a... very questionable ROI.

level 2
CCNP | ISP Operations2 points · 7 days ago

Where I'm at Juniper guys make more because there's less of them.

level 2
A magician trying to become a wizard1 point · 7 days ago

As vendor certs have always been questioned in general, what real alternatives are there to really learn these types of things? I know Net+ and the like exist, but if we're being honest those are kind of a joke. If I could find certs that cover OSPF, BGP, STP, etc. (all the main day-to-day big hitters) that were vendor neutral and actually recognized, I'd be on board. Right now it seems like the CCNA / CCNP is the best option for someone who wants to say they're understand these things at least to a basic degree and can back it up on paper.

level 1

As already mentioned on this thread, you can buy the course books individually. Here is the link though:

https://junipertraining.onfulfillment.com/WelcomePublic.aspx?sid=323

This is the course slides along with the lab material (minus the instructor and any base config)

Bit more reasonable but still $400-600ea depending. I've asked my work to pay for SP training as it's not too expensive for a company... There are also a number of free PDFs available from 2012-2013 which are still relevant minus a few exam objectives:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgetayo827qrv68/JNCIS-Study-Guides.tar.gz?dl=0

Password: studyguide123

Source: http://goedhartvoordieren.nl/?page=r/Juniper/comments/7xlev4/jncis_study_guides/

level 1
2 points · 7 days ago

INE has the video course for $120... $40 for the technology course and $500 for the Juniper training bundle... Not enough in the bundle to make it worth while IMO.. buy what you want or wait for it to go on sale..

level 1
4 points · 7 days ago

The entire tech industry shot itself in the foot centuries ago when we all bought into the cert nonsense.

Now we have hw/sw designed in an intentionally convoluted manner because making it intuitive is bad for the course & cert side business.

level 2
DRINK-IE and LINKSYS-IE2 points · 7 days ago

The entire tech industry shot itself in the foot centuries ago when we all bought into the cert nonsense.

I agree and disagree with this. I wish that the certs stayed, but I wish they were regulated by law/government to be much like engineering stamps/certifications or medical degrees/diplomas/practice degrees that other engineers/doctors have to get. That way they're not only really hard but....they are prestigious and legitimate.

level 1
CCNP, JNCIS-ENT3 points · 7 days ago

I'm going to give an unpopular opinion here and say certs are becoming more and more overrated. While Cisco certs are great for beginners especially the CCNA because it gives you entry-level knowledge, as you progress good old-fashioned experience overcomes everything.

I have Cisco and Juniper certs and while they were great early on in my career to prove that you can throw me on a network team and I can hold my own. But now networking is moving two more vendor-agnostic and cloud-based. General networking knowledge like Protocols are always good to have.

For example I had one client that switched everything over to Arista and another that switch to VMware NSX. The client who switched to Arista saved a ton of money and didn't lose much functionality. the NSX client actually gain functionality and are paying slightly less.

level 2
Service Provider Architect2 points · 7 days ago

Honestly, we interview around protocol understanding and look for experience or a clear aptitude/ability to learn in CVs. Most of the people we've previously hired on the basis of letters after their name have left or been let go.

I think the Cisco certs are now broadly devalued to the point of irrelevance outside of very basic networking environments because multivendor is now very much a thing and because these days as others have said if you need to find out how to make x work on vendor y, you go google the docs, you spin up a lab in your laptop or have access to a lab, you figure it out and off you go. In the days when CCNA first flourished that wasn't so easy - see also the piles of ex-home-lab gear on eBay et al now available.

If you've got the brain for it and are keen to learn you can drive any combination of networking gear and do anything - the fact you can remember the exact command to show interfaces with port counters on that vendor's kit is neither here nor there.

level 3
CCNP, JNCIS-ENT-1 points · 7 days ago

Excellent points

level 1
CCNP1 point · 7 days ago · edited 7 days ago

Networking is networking. Vendors use different default options or protocols and syntax, but understanding networking itself is far more important. That said, don't expect route redistribution to work like Cisco's. You should always lab test when you port configs from one vendor to another to catch things that aren't processed quite the same.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see some current juniper textbooks, but the market for certifications is mostly made up by people that are either going to buy a copy of the test questions, or be sent to a class by their employer. The number of people that want to use the certification process as a self guided, self paced learning tool is very small. Juniper would likely just lose money and reputation trying to unseat Cisco as the leader in that niche. They don't have the market penetration or experience at it.

I own Juniper's Security, Enterprise Routing and Switching books. While they are not bad, the examples contain typos and changes in context that were not caught in editing. They are fine for someone making the switch from another vendor, but would make for a confusing learning experience I believe.

level 1

I feel the same way with HP. I think their product is great but training/books are hard to come by. I know there's stuff online, but I'd want to get a hold of a ccna/np type cert without spending a ton.

If anyone happens to know where to get this stuff don't hesitate to reply back

level 2

Yep, even though the CLI is simple and you can find that from the manuals too it really doesn't help someone starting from zero to get into HP world. It's basically only for someone already familar with networking and different gears that easily take on HP stuff too. Same with Juniper I guess, I didn't have any problems learning Juniper stuff after looking through their Day one etc. stuff and doing some labbing on the virtual editions.

Also as for HP/Aruba, currently the best way to learn Clearpass from zero is watching some German guys youtube-tutorials and not using anything "official Aruba" :)

level 3

I went to clearpass training not too long ago. No way someone who wants to get into it would spend $4k just so they can play around with it for a week.

HP prides themselves for not nickel and diming you. But in a way hoarding their know how is doing the same thing.

level 1
DRINK-IE and LINKSYS-IE1 point · 7 days ago

So, for the certifications that Juniper offers I would really like to encourage you to self study. The classroom/on demand classes are for organizations that can get a deal to teach a bunch (think 10-30 people) in one go. The classes are not meant for a singular person. Junos Genius is meant for a single person.

I went from the JNCIA to two JNCIP's (SP and ENT) within about a year. I also didn't have the Junos Genius program available to me at the time, and if I did I would have jumped on it in an instant.

For JNCIE, it's a little different as there's a LOT there. Usually inetzero is the best, along with a bootcamp by Juniper themselves. Also, a shit ton of labbing (as in, 4-8 hours of labbing a day for about 6 to 12 months).

You shouldn't need a classroom to pass those certs though that are offered by Junos Genius. The material is very good, and you can go straight from the reading material to the certification test. They are designed together.

level 1

I believe Juniper tries to bundle in engineer support and/or onsite engineer support with bigger purchases and that maybe why they aren't very worried with the training being more accessible.

level 1

I just want a base version of vMX (say with 10Mbit limit) be free and accesible so learning wouldn't be "try to get some old switch/router off ebay just for its OS"

level 1

When starting out in this industry you learn Cisco.

Actually I started with RouterOS, am now doing Ubiquiti & Vyos, and am moving on to Ciena. While I've put in some effort to learn Cisco because the theory is good, it just never comes up in my day to day.

level 1

I've seen the exact opposite. Juniper training covers what is actually on the associated exam, Cisco training does not. Juniper has many free courses for transitioning people with Cisco knowledge over to Juniper. Juniper's coursework is taught like "here is all the stuff you need to know, and we will also give you labs so you can practice". Cisco's exams, on the other hand are "here are all of the things you did not learn, don't blame us, we are just protecting the exclusivity of our certification programs". I find the ego is strong with Cisco. They don't realize that Juniper was created out of the frustration that Cisco is not student or user friendly.

level 1
-6 points · 7 days ago(0 children)
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