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QUESTION: Does anyone else just want to see Mueller and/or Rosenstein fired already?
Look, in an ideal world, they wouldn't be fired. In fact, in that world, we wouldn't know who Mueller was and we'd be dealing with Comey in regards to FBI matters. Since we're living through this horrible timeline, I'm wondering if we should just "rip off the band-aid" and see what comes from it. I can't help but wonder if these actions could be the catalyst which works in the favor of those wanting change and action. Of course, this could all just be another insane act with no repercussions, but couldn't it also be the final nail in the coffin too? Now maybe I'm just psychologically preparing myself for what seems to inevitably be coming. With the sudden push to make Mueller unable to go anywhere, we know Trump is considering getting rid of him now before it's too late and he's left without options. I don't know - I'm just wondering if an act like this would be something that could see results. Either way, at this rate, we're likely going to see something occur sooner than later. Thoughts?
Nahh. I don’t personally want to see this burst into flames. I’d personally rather see the slow burn that actually nets trump jail time after mueller finds every little dirty secret and passes it on to the states.
If that's how you feel then go sign up to Twitter and start chirping in Trump's ear about how he should fire Rod.
Thats to subvers of a strategy for me to actually want to carry out.
I think if we're going to go that route we should go balls-out and let the GOP destroy the economy and bring about the Great Depression 2.0, which will bring American society a well-needed dose of humility.
Now you will have the the unity among the working class to get the change you always wanted and wage war against the billionaires and wealth in inequality.
You can have Decades of Division and marginal outcomes or you can suffer through 10 years of economic disparity, but wind up with major reform right down to the voter level.
The question is how much of a risk are you truly comfortable with.
What kind of action do you think would come out of that? Protests?
Eat a fat dick, McConnell.
Where's the proof that Mueller knew that he had been fed lies about Iraq by Republican Vice President Cheney and others in the right? I haven't yet seen evidence that he was aware that what the conservatives told him was a lie. Do you have any evidence that he was knowingly a part of the right-wing conspiracy on Iraq?
Had he done due diligence, he would have realized information was wrong. Yet he didn't and rubber stamped the war and never answered for it.
Seems like he was doing his best with the information he had at the time, and he was duped along with many other people at the time.
Sorry, but if you can’t demonstrate that he was knowingly lying to the public at the time, this is a pretty weak point of contention against him.
He never admitted he was wrong nor said he had been given bad information - actions speak louder than words.
Wait, so the big thing that's supposed to discredit him is that he never said sorry for being given bad intelligence by the administration he worked for? I don't see how that affects his ability to prosecute Trump.
If you do feel that Mueller should be discredited for not publicly admitting he was wrong, how does that work as a defense of Trump, who is regularly wrong but rarely, if ever, publicly admits it?
If Mueller can't admit he was completely wrong when testifying to Congress about Iraq WMDs then all we are doing is arguing about morally gray characters here at best. If you can't see how these things matter or are relevant then you are choosing to ignore them for partisan politics alone.
That still doesn't discredit Mueller. He never knowingly lied to the public about Iraq. And it's not like the public needed to find out about it from him; the administration owned up to it.
No rational person would have faith in Mueller after selling the war like that and then remaining silent after it is accepted as fact that there were no WMDs - perhaps you and I have different standards of credibility.
Plenty of rational people still have faith in him. Like Rosenstein, the Trump-appointee who in turn appointed Mueller. Like most of congress. Like the majority of Americans.
But your idea that we shouldn't have faith in someone who doesn't admit to being wrong is interesting. Is that a rule you apply to everyone?
They certainly don't like these facts.
Buddy troll system in effect! Make BS comment claiming the FBI is a foreign intelligence agency and then have a secondary account to come on and try to make it look like your comment is real!
No buddy system here and my comment is real. Not sure where you got claims of FBI is a foreign intelligence agency, LOL.
I love that the mod post comes up every time Mitch McConnell is mentioned. It's like they know we want to use profanity to describe him.
That's for every submission. It's part of this sub.
Good luck with that. Unless Donnie hears it fox and friends or Hannity he doesn't care.
I wish the DACA bill would be passed like this.
Anyone else find it ridiculous how much time and effort is being spent on internal issues? What about actual issues like economic and financial regulations, the environment, and a divided nation? When does the Government start Governing?
Can you say tax cuts? [Trump's Tax Plan and How It Affects You] (https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-tax-plan-how-it-affects-you-4113968)
[Trump Signs Order on National Monuments, Giving Power 'Back to the People'] (https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/trump-signs-executive-order-calling-interior-secretary-review-natl)
[Trump Signs Legislation Rolling Back Obama-Era Regulations] (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-03-27/trump-signs-legislation-rolling-back-obama-era-regulations)
Hmmm, sure looks like governing to me...
Jesus, those are some terrible news sources. Yah, he’s governing, he’s just not doing it very often or well.
What's terrible about those news sources? They don't hide the facts well enough?
Do facts scare you, make you feel uneasy, upset the narrative?
Here try another dose of reality.
[Revealed: Robert Mueller’s FBI Repeatedly Abused Prosecutorial Discretion] (http://thefederalist.com/2018/04/19/revealed-robert-muellers-fbi-repeatedly-abused-prosecutorial-discretion/)
Establishment DC types who reflexively defend Mueller haven't explained how they came to trust him so completely. It's a question worth asking given the bumpy historical record of Mueller's tenure as FBI director.
By Mollie Hemingway APRIL 19, 2018
Lol. Yah, i’d call that another dose of crap news source. But i’ll happily research the claims.
You're right it isn't the [Libturd Daily] (http://www.visiontimes.com/2017/06/25/the-new-york-times-journalist-who-covered-up-genocide.html) but then again they're not being paid to lie...
Consider some xanax and a book. I think both of those things would serve you well.
How do you do it? How can you walk around in that [weird posture] (https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/66264912/typical-liberal-posture-wow-the-air-is-so-clean-up-here.jpg) all the time?
Its amazing I tell you...
You really slayed that one.
Hahaha. I suppose i shouldn’t have expected much from somebody that uses the word “libturd”. But still.
"I suppose i shouldn’t have expected much from somebody that uses the word “libturd”"...
[you will come to know the truth, and the truth will set you free] (https://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=50&bible_chapter=8)...
Is this the Senate moving to oust McConnell?
"Majority Leader McConnell, with all due respect, go fuck yourself."
"the best people"
Shit is at a fever pitch right now boys.
Term limits. Cut the power of these congress bitches.
2 terms of 4 years at a time and then sit one out for senate and house.
Ditto for president. This means we can have Obama or bush again or Clinton or Carter.
SC gets flat 16 years max.
I actually agree with this.
I mean, its pretty fucked up to begin, being able to fire people willy nilly to stop them investigating you.
Does Trump have to sign this for it to become law? Could he veto it?
My fellow Texans, please call the local office of your Senator, John Cornyn, and remind him that you would like the Senate Majority whip to snap his fellow “Law and Order” Republicans into standing for the rule of law, Mitch “Heat-lamp” McConnell be damned. Remind them that they can drain this swamp without concern, as the Kentucky Softshell is not and will not be treated as a protected species.
Here is his website, scroll through to find the office in your local, and be ready to provide your full name and zip code or else they will discard your message as coming from an unverified constituent: https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/contact/
The sliminess of the GOP is something else. For eight years they have been petty mother fuckers. And these investigations into Trump and Klan will continue indefinitely.
He has said he doesn't believe President Trump will fire Mueller, despite Trump's public comments and reported attempts to do just that.
What is interesting about this..I feel like the media has done more of a job of painting this picture Trump will fire Mueller (which he can't do by the way)..when Trump himself has stated he wouldn't, Paul Ryan said he wouldn't, among many others who have said (and urged him) to not fire Mueller.
Except Trump has stated that he wants too and he has tried at least twice to do so.
Where has he tried twice?
Not only that but the white house spokes person Sanders has said that Trump does indeed have the power, Trump can fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone who will fire him. Trump has no idea what his powers are and/or is just gonna yell that he's gonna fire him over and over till something make it happen. The fact that he wants to fire the guy investigating alone is startling enough and worrisome.
Does this give Mueller almost unlimited power "if" this were to pass? Meaning, at that stage..even if he legitimately did wrong (hypotheticals, I know) and violated something..it basically would be extremely hard to fire him from the probe?
Yes, it also grants him a voltron sword that he can use to vanquish enemies of america.
No. If fired he could appear before a panel and plead his case for say reinstatement, and then the panel would decide.
I think you missed the point of my question. They want to propose a bill that will protect Mueller. If that bill passed, and Mueller now has some concrete wall in front of him that prevented him from being fired...I'm curious what are key points of what is a fireable offense and what isn't.
It doesn't prevent him from being fired. It just prevents him from being fired by anyone other than his immediate superiors in the DOJ, and gives him the opportunity to appeal his firing and preserve the investigation documents.
But rosenstein, right now, has the ability yes? Isn't he a superior?
Yes. That's why there's a fear that Donald will fire Rosenstein and replace him with a Deputy Attorney General that will do whatever Donald says. Even in that case, this bill will give Special Counsels one week to appeal their firing to the courts to make sure it wasn't done in poor faith.
When someone is doing something as important and volatile as investigating the Executive Branch of the government, their continued investigation shouldn't hinge on any one person's whims.
I understand that. My initial question was focused on the limit of Mueller's protection is all.
I believe part of the bill that was brought up before was that if he was fired it had to be for legitimate/provable offenses commited during the investigation (say he silences a witness, messes with documents, pulls off an illegal search warrant). Basically it raises the burden of proof on the ones who want to fire him and not for anything that they don't like (Like charging Trump associates, raiding his lawyer's office with a signed and legal warrant etc).
Finally some balls.
Good for them.
Grassley looks like a burnt hyena
If trump fires Mueller and then skip town, you best believe there’s going to be hell to pay.
Is McConnell afraid his ties to cocaine trafficking will become known?
Why does McConnell keep presenting his cavernous gaping ashole to the worst members of his party?
Rather than wasting time on this bill, they should create a bill to prohibit Presidential pardons in cases involving convictions related to Government activity.Because one of the things preventing Trump's birds from singing to Mueller is the promise of a Presidential pardon if they don't rat on Trump and take a fall for him (see Iran–Contra pardons for examples).
Rather than wasting time on this bill, they should create a bill to prohibit Presidential pardons in cases involving convictions related to Government activity.
This would require a constitutional amendment, would it not? That would explain why the bill to protect Mueller (despite constitutional separation-of-powers concerns there) is what has traction.
I can see the value in the idea, and I would want the wording to be careful as well to target the specific bad behavior you want to eliminate.
True, it definitely would be a tough sell, but worth it to the Nation going forward. Thanks for the info.
He can't be pardoned for state charges.
True, but I'm talking about Federal charges and convictions.
That's an interesting idea.
what happened to his book?
You are missing all the corporations putting millions of dollars in their hands
T is for TREASON.
Anyone trying to obstruct justice, by even denying these measures to protect the investigators, should be indicted on obstruction of justice charges. Seriously. Like hundreds of fucking congressmen. Get these treasonous yes men outta Washington.
You know this was law before it expired last century. It was never renued.
IANAL, could you explain these assertions? Fascinating.
President controls the executive branch. So the argument would be that by default Mueller falls under the Justice Department and therefor within Trumps power to fire. That is the argument whether or not it will works is a matter for the court to argue. In the meantime they would have to get an injunction etc if something was passed. And Trump would still be fucked since he has no power of State of New York's judicial system so the investigation would still continue with it being noted for future court reference Trump tried to impede and investigation by his action.
No. Trump appoints the executive branch at the top. No President has control to hire and fire below the political appointee level. By your reasoning, a President can just walk into a Post Office and fire anyone he wants. Not true.
Of course, this would mean that the law, in theory, in not necessary.
EDIT: the reason why some republicans are supporting this is because Trump seems to think that he can fire Mueller, and if he does, it will set off a full blown Constitutional Crisis. Some Republicans are trying to avoid this.
I know, I was provided the context of why the idiot was thinking they could fire him.
McConnell is a fuckaluck. Nuff said.
Sorry, maybe I missed it, but what is McConnell's stated reason for opposing the bill? How can you possibly justify it?
“Trump probably won’t fire him because it would be bad.”
Do we learn nothing from dealing with these people? No do not giv up the authority of the executive to give them more power over this ridiculous investigation. .
Don’t sign the ridiculous bill and then don’t fire mueller. It is that simple. Don’t feed the narrative. Take credit for not firing him. Don’t give that credit to congress. Signing it would be so dumb.
Oh God forbid that the all mighty McFossil had the other senators ran behind his back!
That's what I'm talking about USA USA USA!
He can choose what bills come up for a vote.
Alternatively, a majority of senators can force a vote, if such a majority exists, which might be happening here.
Trump will fire Mueller b4 the vote.
A little ignorant, but can the Senate force a bill on the floor if the majority leader won't bring it to a vote?
Yah. But it has about a snowballs chance in hell of getting signed by trump even if it did pass
Article is a little vague, can you explain further details? :P
If Trump is innocent like he claims, why is he sweating like a guilty man? Hope they take McConnell down as well.
Grassley is a Republican
Grassley, Democrat? Explain.
The article's focus was on Grassley moving forwrd on bipartisan efforts.
It may be an uphill battle after getting out of commitee. But what part of that is "Democrats shooting themselves in the foot"?
Fuck McConnell. They should remove him by force. The man is a taint on this country.
Yo fuck the turtle man.
Good. Fuck the melting man.
Good. I'm tired of people using a drawl to excuse their idiocy.
If the "concerned" GOP senators really care about protecting the investigation, then all they have to do is caucus with the Democrats long enough to pass a bill on it. Of course they won't because they don't actually care that much.
This bill is one of the last life boats for Republicans to flee the sinking ship on. If they had any sense, they'd take it. Of course, they don't have any sense, that's why they are in this predicament. They'll have no one to blame next year but themselves.
Yeah I really can't believe how thickheaded they are being on this. Like, party loyalty worked when the party was keeping you afloat. Cowardly as it may be, it at least makes sense from a selfish perspective. This is just plain stupidity. You're selling yourself just to try and prolong the inevitable for Donald Trump of all people? How fucking thick can you be?
Politics aside, Trump is a shit businessman. How many failed businesses? Trump airlines failed miserably. Trump power, fire, and his pale ale didn't get far past their trademark application. Trump:The Game didn't even sell half of what he expected it to. Trump Taj Mahal in 1991 -$3 million in debt after the first year, he declared bankruptcy. Trump Taj Mahal, Plaza, and Marina in 2004- $1.8 billion in debt, declared bankruptcy and rebranded that little chain into Trump Entertainment Resorts. 2008 Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc. missed an interest payment on a $53.1 million bond, declared bankruptcy and Trump stepped down. Trump Magazine failed. Many more failed businesses and bankruptcies from such a wonderful businessman.
Yeah I never understood where people think he is a great businessman, I am sure if we ever did see his tax returns, we would see how broke he really is and how much debt he has
It's because he puts his name on and gold plates everything which for some reason some people latch onto. I'm sure it's some psychological effect in play. But I think it looks tacky as fuck and screams that he's a greedy little man.
Edit- or that he's just insecure as hell about his own perceived, and likely lacking, wealth.
Comrade! how is the weather in moscow today!
You do realize you can filter out subs, right? So if you only want to see "kitty gifs" as you once put it, then you can do so if you learn to use Reddit.
But your holier than thou attitude just covers up your own political biases and preferences.
/r/Asktrumpsupporters has generated some fairly balanced discussions.
Not always but it's better than nothing
I honestly don't believe you came here to have a civil discussion, though. You can't claim to want to have a "civil discussion" when you throw out insults ("kids") and deal in absolutes. You came to this sub to lob your own political jabs.
Before you throw out "this sub is biased", look at your own biases.
oh please. If you think calling someone kid is an insult...
It is. Sorry, this is not /r/NFL where taunting is recommended. Different subs have different rules.
You see how many responses i'm getting? You see how many people are getting triggered?
The truth comes out lol. We all get that you're here to troll, but it's nice for you to admit it. Funny how you're not bothering to engage with them, you can't have a "civil discussion" if you don't reply lol.
Civil conversations can consist of disagreements but you can't be so easily offended.
Please, tell me how an adhominem is a disagreement? The only thing it does is that it masks your apathetic, nihilist point if view.
The world's treat me quite well, lol. I'm certainly not being eaten alive by it.
Yup thats why he declared corporate bankruptcy 6 times.
Like mosquitoes coming out after a rainstorm.
I agree he'll be here till 2024, but it's not due to him being a good businessman. The voting public would rather reelect Trump that admit they were fools who fell for his lies the first time
Yikes, calm down mate
It really is a moment of truth for you people. You put on flag pins, bought decal magnets for your pick-up trucks and used Sept.11th to declare yourselves the party that "Supports the Troops."
Yet we have a highly decorated Marine—lifelong Republican—who was in charge of the FBI during and after 9/11.
On the other side, we have a Draft Dodger who described sex in the 80s as his personal Vietnam—lifelong Democrat who became a Republican after a Black Guy won—and once bragged after 9/11 that his building was now the tallest in New York.
Don't get your hopes up for a crowd that wants their lives to fall apart just so they can get 'sum lihhhhbrahl taers'.
If the American system is flawed in your opinion, how can Trump be a "very successful American President"? Isn't the king of shit mountain still on shit mountain?
Please describe how he's been successful with citations? I'm truly at a loss here. I can say I was an amazing Olympic level swimmer all I want, but even a cursory look at empirical data would disprove that.
Sounds like a political game. Grassley knows the bill doesn't have a chance to pass the Senate and the House. The only positive thing to emerge from this would be having everyone on record as a yay or nay vote to use against them in future elections.
Take that, Yertle.
We know Mitch is a traitor. Stop him. Investigate him. Send him to prison.
Contains an amendment that limits investigation to not investigating Trump, basically. More conservacriminal horseshit. What a shock.
Source? This article doesn't make not of any modification to the bill.
Grassley is pushing this because he is adding a secret amendment to the bill that can limit the investigation according to Feinstein. Won't show it to anyone.
The idea that the Senate Majority leader is just able to complete block a bill that likely has majority support is so strange to me, from a democratic point of view.
Shouldn't any member or group of members be able to propose legislation and have it voted on?
It's so strange to leave the power in the hands of a single individual.
He's elected by his party in the Senate to handle the matter of what to put on the Senate schedule. Sometimes his priorities differ from the parties or sometimes they are the priorities of the party as a whole that differ from the priorities of the GOP members in the Senate.
There are mechanisms in place for his party to remove him and elect another majority leader if they become displeased with his performance.
So he doesn't really wield his power in a vacuum, he has to listen to his party and sometimes the opposition in order to keep his position safe and everybody pleased with his performance.
I do think that McConnell is being really tone deaf to the situation but he's done this so many times before, delay, delay and delay and it has paid off for him in the past. I don't think he understands the whole Mueller situation, i think he views this as a Ken Starr/Bill Clinton type of situation instead of the whole Nixonian resignation type that it is slowly rolling towards becoming, partly because he has completely failed to simply and firmly say no to President Trump. He really isn't behaving as an elected US Senator. He's behaving like an appointed cabinet member of the Trump administration.
Maybe he just isn't a strong enough personality to be a legislative leader that is ready face off to a President that is abusing the executive.
I mean there is a reason that Paul Ryan is abandoning his political career, his career in congress is being tainted to such a degree with his association with the current President that any higher ambitions than the current one seem out of the picture. He realized that he failed to be able to stand up to Trump and just got his one big bill through and is leaving after an incredibly unproductive leadership term where the GOP controlled both houses and nominally the White House.
McConnell doesn't seem to realize this and seems to think that he can ride this through and keep on doing business as usual.
Well despite the fact that I still will vote one of them out, I'm proud of my Carolinian Senators.
That person in the background is creepy
THIS WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing will come out of it.
I am willing to bet 100 Billion Zillion Trillion Quadrillion Zambian dollars.
Echo, echo, echo!
Edit; Dammit, I should really read first before commenting. I was just so excited on of these a-holes decided to sak up. Then read it was Grassley. Shit.
Is it even possible if McConnell doesn't bring it to the floor? (he wont).
I don't know if there is a way around that.
Fuck the GOP, the traitorous bastards.
Wouldn’t be surprised if some of them have ancestral ties to Benedict Arnold.
Umm, that would be trump’s ancestors. He hated the damn rule of law, too, and through the should fuckin be a one man kingdom of corruption. Just like POS trump.
What a piece of shit. This is how u know Feinstein is on the money
Told Feinstein is complaining she hasn’t seen the amendment, Grassley shot back that he was under no obligation to disclose it to her. “I don’t even have to mention I had an amendment!” he said.
Why can't the Senate just vote to get rid of McConnell? I know it irritates even a lot of Republicans that McConnell refuses to allow anything on the floor that he doesn't approve of. He runs the Senate like a dictator.
If I were Flake, Corker, and maybe some others. I'd flat out tell McConnell, either allow this bill to come to the floor, or we will join the Democrats and destroy your majority.
He runs the Senate like a dictator.
Yes, but he is their dictator so that makes it OK. Wait until the Dems have the Senate, every Republican will suddenly be very concerned that the majority leader has so much control. FOXNews will do a segment every night about it.
It's almost like McConnell's wife is in Trump's cabinet or something...
because we have a nutjob simpleton running the country who has fired people because they are not "loyal" to him. where as Loyalty apparently means protecting him no matter what he does.
If Trump has done nothing wrong why should anyone fear Trump would fire him?
If Trump hasn’t done anything wrong, why are there 2 criminal investigations paralleling around his syndicate, 19 indictments, international investigations, etc.?
That's what I say!
Because the guy he's investigating can fire him.
Because Trump is an colossal fuckstain who has fired almost everyone who works for him so far, and already fired one person in charge of investigating him?
If Trump hasn't done anything wrong why is he threatening to fire Mueller?
The fear is that he’ll be fired by Trump who wants to continue obstructing. He already fired Comey who didn’t do anything wrong either and openly admitted that he did it because he wanted to stop the investigation.
Comey who didn’t do anything wrong
That is terrible logic.
If McConnell is against it, then pass it. Now that may just be the dislike for him speaking but I'm tired of Turtle Man and his 36+ year reign of terror. That man has shat on his constituents at every turn and yet somehow is reelected EVERY SINGLE TIME! If he is for it, Im against it but then again I dont live in Iowa.
It shows you exactly how stupid segments of the GOP are. I'm sure he represents a lot of evangelicals who believe... I'm not sure what they believe in anymore.
McConnell has been blocking Russian interference since the Obama days.
No no, this bill does nothing to protect Donnie.
Trump's attorney General appointed a criminal?
Shouldn't that be the state's responsibility, right "state's rights" people?
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot)
Sen. Chuck Grassley said his committee will take up legislation to protect special counsel Robert Mueller despite opposition from Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.
McConnell has argued for months that he doesn't believe legislation protecting the special counsel is necessary.
A bipartisan group of senators introduced legislation last week that would codify that only a senior Justice Department official can fire Mueller, and give Mueller or any other special counsel an "Expedited review" of any firing.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: special#1 counsel#2 vote#3 legislation#4 McConnell#5
Iowa is basically the south. No idea why you'd call them progressive.
Hey, whoa whoa whoa, the South is shitty enough. We don't need Iowa making it even shittier. Take em back!
Suck it turtleman.
Grassley, that sneaky POS... now what?
Grassley is only doing this to add a secret amendment to limit the investigation. He's a complete and total fucker.
A bill that Trump will never sign.
Doesn't need to, just needs to sit on his desk for 10 days without veto and it becomes law
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