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I thought they said it would play more like Melee though.

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I don't actually know, I haven't seen the announcement and I'm just gonna wait for launch anyway. I'm just trying to explain why the distinction is so important for Smash fans, and differs in kind from regular gaming sequels.

If you don't actually know then you're not really qualified to be arguing that it's the same as Smash 4. Even the footage from the invitational probes that it plays much differently.

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0 points · 6 days ago · edited 6 days ago

I'm not arguing that its the same as Smash 4, I'm explaining why it's important whether it's a new system or more like a port for Smash fans.

Here is Armada talking about it if you like. His qualifications are, I imagine, up to your standards. He touches on some of the problems of smash 4 and is optimistic overall.

Don't go overboard with combos. You need to work on your fighting game fundamentals, without those combos are useless. For now just do very basic combos (auto-combos will work). Focus on improving not on winning. Simplify your game. For instance, play a few games where you are only allowed to move around and use the light auto combo, nothing else. This will keep your game-plan simple so you can focus on executing it given what your opponent is doing.

Improving neutral: Practice movement. Move around the screen, dash around, air dash around, instant-air dash around. Do all of this while running, while holding back, while jumping, after a superdash, etc. Make it so moving your character is second nature.

Reacting is half of fighting games, so it's not bad to react. I think you are maybe presenting yourself with a false dichotomy between reaction and action. Good fighting game players are doing both simultaneously.

Original Poster1 point · 8 days ago

I just wanted to come back to this post and say thank you. I've been playing the game in a much simpler way in the sense that I'm not really thinking of combos all the time but rather just how I'm gonna counter the opponent's attacks and how I'm gonna get in. The only downside is that my combos are incredibly basic so while I've been getting alot better at opening up by opponents, it's time for me to learn how the hell to connect stuff, especially with Vegito.

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Sounds good, time to learn some basic bnbs. Just remember to keep working on your fundamentals as you improve.

If I was to give one piece of advice it would be to be careful with combos. Reading this subreddit (and listening to the community in general) will make you think that long and complex combos are more important than they actually are.

Fundamentals are key. If you don't have good fundamentals you can't hit your opponents and the combos are worthless. Too many new players are inefficient with their training; practicing combos for hours and not seeing results.

Original Poster1 point · 11 days ago

Yeah, i agree, i spent like 2-3 hours rewatching some videos on how to use gohan propperly and about 2 hours putting practice in the game to see if im doing it correctly. The CPU doesn't compare to a real person but its a start!

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Nothing wrong with the CPU, just make sure whether you're playing against the CPU or against people that you're playing to improve; not just to win. This will help prevent you from developing bad habits.

Long reaching normals (e.g. Trunks 2M), forward moving special moves (e.g. goku qcf+l), or ki blast punish. The idea is that you reflect them in the middle of a block string so that they're swinging buttons at nothing and you whiff punish those buttons.

Well, you might get knocked out because of nerves. That's something you're gonna have to accept. Everybody is nervous the first time and it will effect your game. Accepting that rather than fighting it will help.

The biggest tip imo is that you should use it as an opportunity to meet people and improve. Getting knocked out is a great excuse to run long sets and casuals with people. Introduce yourself, ask questions, be friendly and try to have fun.

The setups will be weird. TVs will be bigger or slower than you're used to. If you're used to PC, PS4 will feel different and vice-versa. It's a good idea to play a bit on the setups before the tournament starts, even if just by yourself dashing around.

Be sure to drink lots of water.

Hey guys this might sound really stupid for you but this is my first fighting game. What's the difference between using the hitbox controller and a regular keyboard ?

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It's easier to doubletap buttons on a hitbox if you're used to that, but lots of hitbox people play keyboard just fine and vice versa.

Original Poster1 point · 17 days ago

you see claytons vid man?

how do you think it compares?

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Pretty similar although looks like these are a bit more optimized. I think Jason has some blockstring stuff too, I can't remember. Important to practice block pressure with this character because he's very reflectable.

Original Poster1 point · 17 days ago

havent touched blockstrings yet but i'll probably get once i figure out a BNB for the guy. there's so many floating around and then there's multiple possible BNBs depending on how far away from corner you are.

i almost feel like blockstrings will be more straightforward than a BNB....

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Check out this for blockstrings btw

Just came out.

-138 points · 23 days ago


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Not every combo in this game is easy to find or do. Took months to find Bluku's sparking ki-blast loops.

Hey, I am looking for a specific xiv thread that had an interesting graph detailing the contribution of a job including the dps increases it brought from buffs like trick attack. It would say like "Ninja personal dps this, dps from trick attack buffing the party is this..." that sort of thing. Can't seem to find it.

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If you're talking about the graph that was posted here a month or so ago it is now outdated as of the balance changes for 4.3. The people that put that graph together based on parses usually take a bit to let people settle into the changes before the publish findings iirc.

Really nice! Do you think you could take another shot straight on? I’d like to use this as my phone background if you don’t mind. :)

thank god the vegito assist is good and not trash

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying 'good'. It's not Goku Blue levels of bad, but it's not all that great. Here's what it looks like to me:


  • Quick activation
  • Good angle of attack
  • Good screen coverage


  • Short Duration
  • Knocks the target upwards a bit

All in all I think it'll be decent for covering an advance, but timing for extending blockstrings or combos is going to be tighter than other assists. I'd put Vegito's assist as slightly below average, honestly.

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Goku blue's assist is not bad, it's pretty good. Decent hitstun and can give sliding knockdown in situations where you otherwise wouldn't get one.

4 points · 28 days ago

Thats why i only play with people over discord, no lag and helpful feedback afterwards.

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Which discord? Is there a general subreddit discord or do you mean friends?

Its a mostly german speaking discord channel,

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Ah, I'm in NA. Thanks though.

True but it can be very tricky because oftentimes the patches that include the new characters also include possible small bugfixes or balance changes that may affect other characters as well. If the some of the systems being used are set to automatic updates, some players might be using different versions of the game during the tournament. Even if the changes are very small, they can have a big impact at the highest levels of competition.

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The really annoying thing is that often these kinds of changes unreported by the developers or are lost in the information about the new characters so the community doesn't find out until suddenly something doesn't work anymore. Some developers are better at reporting changes than others but Japanese devs are notoriously bad at this.

Strife is the only name on this list i recognize. Guess i'm not weeb enough.

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Uchiha is from Naruto I think. Other than that I'm in the same boat.

Ya imo all top eights should be bo5

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-4 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

DBFZ games are long, it would be a seriously grueling top 8 for viewers and TOs.

Edit: clarity.

2 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

Youre right but eatsports is too strong here

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no idea why I’m getting downvotes honestly.

I get PTSD flashbacks from just a screenshot of Minfilia.

Pray return to the Waking Sands

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Original Poster36 points · 1 month ago

I shall meet with you anon!

2 points · 1 month ago

I'm really struggling with beerus in neutral. Any tips?

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The best tip unfortunately is don't play Beerus.

If you want to play Beerus then you should know outside of 2M his neutral is pretty trash. Run someone else point and swap him in for corner pressure.

212 points · 1 month agoGilded1 · edited 1 month ago

Being completely real here, the game is still fun.

It is, however, very one dimensional in terms of game plan. Every character fights on the same axis, close range pressure and block stun. Characters that can theoretically be played in other ways such as Frieza or Beerus are either too weak to do so, or completely shut down by odd angled super dashes.

Because of this one-dimensionality, top tier characters in this game are by far and away the best characters to use despite the relatively close power level of each character. Why would you not play cell over any other character? He does the same things as everyone else, only better than them.

This has the effect of making most teams extremely similar to each other, barring one or two "flavor" characters that people prefer. Generally, this is also the point character on the team.

Because of the decision to not include pushblock, there's no way for characters to build space once they've been made to block something. Reflect sort of fills this space, but since you can't actually reflect during blockstun it doesn't actually help you during continuous pressure. This means that the gameplay loop during a lot of sequences is blocking for your life until they run out of assists, then guess right on the next sequence (or end up in the same position).

That's not necessarily bad or anything, and the game is still fun imo. It also doesn't mean the game doesn't have depth. But it does mean that it's pretty same-y after the first 50 or 60 hours. Are there places to improve and get better? Of course! Are there things to practice in the neutral? Definitely. Do they ever really vary from the basic gameplay of pressure till you/your opponent runs out of assists? Not really


Just saw that you're looking for comparisons to other games. In terms of depth, I would say that DBFZ is actually in a pretty similar position to SFV. Both games feature the characters really playing the same game plan, almost no matter who you select. Both games feature fairly weak defensive tools which makes that viable. I'll say though that SFV's menat and guile have added credible zoning to the game as an alternative option here.

Tekken 7 is a deeper game than DBFZ. This is due to the wide variety of strings and mixups that any decent Tekken character has. The other thing Tekken brings to the table is movement. Basic Tekken juggles and combos are actually really easy to learn, but the movement that helps you control space and be evasive is very complex and skill intensive. Add to that that many characters have over 100 discrete strings and moves and there are fathoms of depth to Tekken. This doesn't mean it's for everyone though, until you get the movement down it can feel very clunky, and the amount of things to learn with each character can be super intimidating.

XRD is easily the deepest anime game out there today. Just in terms of subsystems alone they have incredible options with two varieties of roman cancels, faultless defense, blitz (another defensive technique), just defense and burst.

You'll notice that, of the systems I listed, 3 of them are strictly around defense. Xrd can have absolutely smothering offense, similar to this game. The difference is that Xrd gives you extremely powerful defensive tools to help you deal with that offense, whereas DBFZ gives you reflect and vanish, and that's about it.

The other point of depth in Xrd's favor is that the characters are, for the most part, incredibly different from each other. Want to play crazy zoning? Sure go for it! Want to play super close range oki setups? Yep we've got that. Want to play an RTS inspired minion character? Yep that exists too!

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I definitely agree with this analysis. I wish they would have had a bit more courage when designing the characters who are different like Beerus, Frieza, Hit, or even Broly to an extent. I love those characters but they're not good. I'm excited about Vegito and Zamasu but Vegito looks like he'll be more of the same. Zamasu maybe different but it would be inconsistent of them to make him a powerful zoner given their treatment of Beerus/Frieza, so I am skeptical.

I think I understand why they were afraid to make these types of characters strong, especially if you are trying to cater the game to new fighting game fans. You don't want characters who undermine the newbie-friendly systems like superdash etc. Hopefully future versions of DBFZ will explore these alternative designs more.

You did waste money

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So if I switch them to another class will they lose the level 60 gatherer?

Retainers as gatherers are the best retainers imo

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Why is that?

sorry, not sure I follow.

It's definitely a weak point for him

Do you mean Bardock because of the orbs, or Beerus, because of the assist?

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Beerus' orbs are destroyed by beams, even assist beams. The Beerus balls are pretty useless for zoning.

Comment deleted1 month ago

Kripp doesn't hate hearthstone, he just gets bored. Anyone would who plays this game as much as these guys do. At it's core, Hearthstone is a casual few-minutes-a-day game.

Original Poster6 points · 1 month ago

Good questions.

1) Jumping is really good to avoid this, jumping is amazing in this game unlike SF. Vanish isn't plus if they're airborne.

Super dash into assist call is only good if the other player doesn't move much which means they typically don't have too good of control over their character. Even if you use your air action (double jump, dash, etc.) If you block a super dash you get another air action. A lot of people don't realize this. You can double jump, block a super dash, and jump again before touching the ground. This will give the mobility to avoid assists.

2) Jump back L is an extremely safe option but there is ways to beat it such as doing a neutral jump of his own he would've seen Sonic whiff the L so he could dash forward and get free pressure as Sonic landed.

Super dash would most likely get stuffed since Sonic delayed the L to catch GO1 if he slid (which he did.) If they hit a button as soon as they jump delayed superdash would win. Just wait for a second if you see them jump super dash, if they delay it though you'll probably get beat at that range.

If GO1 backdashed on landing he could've done 236L into vanish for free pressure. As his backdash would end sonic would be landing and forced to block it. If sonic held up he would get hit by it and GO1 would get a free combo.

If he had a good read run forward air grab, that's really risky unless you know they're going to do it though.

This is character specific but Gohan could run up 2H if it's blocked do 236H to be + on block as Sonic landed. If it hit obviously he would get a combo.

I know his assist wasn't available in the video but if it was just running forward and calling an assist as they land is good. Especially if you've already baited out their assists they have to just deal with that pressure.

That's just a few off the top of my head i'm sure I could come up with more.

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Wow, I had no idea that blocking a super dash granted another air action. Thanks for the detailed reply.

A final question. You emphasize getting out of IAD range with either jumpback L or backdash or buttons of your own. Would you change your system of priorities if you were facing a character like Cell whose 2M etc can punish backdash if you were in IAD range? Backdash in this game has such long recovery it feels like a relatively committal option. Especially against online tactics (cheating neutral with vanish/superdash).

Original Poster7 points · 1 month ago

Yeah I feel like most people don't realize you're granted another air action.

And I still backdash against characters like cell, you'll rarely get punished in my experience. A lot of times you see Cell moving forward before 2M to chase the backdash and you can neutral jump L or M to punish him for the attempt. As for online against people who want to just abuse auto neutral things like super dash you should instant air back dash. I personally instant air backdash WAY more than regular backdash I learned this from watching ChrisG. He is always instant air backdashing because it has less recovery than normal backdash. Also makes it so if they vanish on you they're negative on landing and if they super dash you get another air action to get out or dash at them with assist.

Normal backdash has it's uses though, it's easier to whiff punish because it covers less ground so your closer if they whiff. Also it has less start up so you don't have to worry about getting clipped in pre-jump frames. A common thing I do with vegeta is backdash if I see something whiff 236L vanish. If I get the whiff punish I get a combo, if I was late I get free pressure. If they whiff something like Cell 2M though you can just 2M punish it yourself.

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Excellent, this is good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to give a thorough reply. I will implement some of these tactics.

It's ironic now that paladins aren't the ones healing themselves anymore.

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Warlock is healing itself, druid is gaining more armor than warrior ever did, mage is going face harder than hunter. I don't know what happened to class identity.

Are the changes live or it's just pre-patch download?

I wish they would fix/adjust the shitty server ticks.

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I heard this was a code relic of 1.0, and is therefore very hard to fix. Anyone know of any truth to this?

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