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Is it okay to ban the champion you absolutely cannot handle, no matter who that champion is? (as opposed to learning how to deal with them(

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I do that for Illaoi and Singed depending on who I see more, and it works fine for me.


Before going in to why tanks are currently some of the worst champs in solo queue right now, I want to make some things clear. This is mostly from my observation from playing almost strictly tanks top for the past 4 season and watching competitive league for a while.

Tanks have been the literally and figurative punching bags of league for a while now. The community has a great distaste for them and there is good reason for that. In competitive, having tanks in the game makes games way to long and extremely boring to watch. In solo queue, they seem like unstoppable monsters that your ADC love to walk and suicide into. There are definite reasons to hate tanks and I am not saying that they should come back or be buffed right now or anything like that, I actually think top lane as a whole is pretty good with good diversity and only a few problem champs. I am going to explain why they feel so terrible right now, what led to this low, and what possible changes could be if Riot really wants to bring them back.

I believe it all started with just general champ nerfs, across the board, tanks have been nerfed in almost every aspect of their characters. Just to list a few: Nautilus with his mana and E nerfs, Maokai with his constant changes to his kit and his stats, Gragas with E and passive, Ornn with his W and ult (though his kit is just too good to nerf completely), Shen with his Q nerfs, Sion E and Q nerfs, and the list continues with other off tanks champs like Poppy and Ekko and Fizz.

The next big hit they had was the item changes. Going for having more health on items to having more resistances really hurt tanks as they did not have the ability to survive both types of damage from two carries. It was also worse since resistances start to benefit less the more you get and stacking two items of the same kind like a sunfires and omen was much worse than it was before. Changes to items like Doran's ring also hurt almost all magic damage tanks like tank Galio and Maokai forcing them to not only lose their ability to wave clear, but also fight back in trades.

Next there are champion changes/buffs. As more and more champs get reworked and added, there have been more and more bad match-ups for tanks to play in the top lane, some notable champ are Illaoi, Darius, and Fiora. They are all great at punishing tanks and matchups for tanks to survive without losing too much becomes few to none. There are no more winning matchups for tanks, and the matchups where you might go even have almost disappeared as well.

This goes hand in hand with the biggest changes of recent times which is runes. People think that conqueror is the biggest problem for tanks but there are problems that hurt them even more. The lack of a good keystone is one, tanks are almost forced to go into grasp as their rune because of the nerfs to aftershock and spellbook has left tanks with a sub par rune and it even forces some tanks like Sion to go into Glacial Augment or Aery on Poppy. One other big rune that might not be so problematic right now is Klepto, it put tanks so far behind as they are just a walking sack of gold.

The last thing that brought tanks to this position is the Community. We have brought upon so much change to the game whether it is good or bad and tanks is just one case of this. Other examples include: Recent ADC nerfs, Jungle nerfs, and even things like the changing of gold bounties.

Tanks are in a bad place because a combination of many factors that have compiled over the years; this is just the most recent low and will most likely not be the only time tanks are in a bad spot.

Now to look towards the future, tanks will 100% come back, there is always a tank meta, and champions come and go through the years. To make tanks more healthier for solo queue, I believe that item changes are the best route of action. In more recent times, tanks have done way to much damage early on and in mid game while still being "unkillable". I think that items changes would be best STRICTLY FOR SOLO QUEUE as it will allow tanks to ramp into items and stay long enough in fights. Tanks are not late game champs, they are mid game champs due to their cheaper items and survivability, once champs get resistances and %pen, tanks fall off much harder. Improving tank itemization will enable them to move away from the brainless banner and push and focus more on being a tank that soaks damage. Tank damage is already really poor right now and keeping it lower is the best to ensure that bruisers still have a spot. This would greatly hurt competitive but the game can not always be balanced around competative and there will be more ways to counteract these possible changes.

Nevertheless, tanks should take their break from the meta and come back with something new and fresh that can rebalance them to have a meaningful role in the game, especially something that is not as brainless as the banner push meta.

Stick to playing easy champs, people will think you're good when you reach a high rank. Your friends just want to annoy you and hold you back. It might be cool to play champs liked Zed and Yasuo, but it wont help you climb too much.

How do i get myself out of a losing slump?

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Take a long break, skip playing for a day or two.

I was in BP today and some guy had 187 CS in like 20 minutes and I was like geez and he was apparently a "Masters Smurf" and he was completely destroying the game as a "first time Zed" supposedly. I was wondering, how does someone get that much CS in such a short amount of time? I had like 140, so like 5 waves less than him. Is that because as a S3 fool I miss a minion or 2 often and those add up or is he doing something that I haven't picked up on yet

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One factor is that you probably miss more minions than him, but that should not account for the ~50 CS difference, one major reason for his higher CS is that he probably has good wave management and manipulation. This allows him to push and catch waves to get CS more often and in larger quantities. Further, he most likely takes jungle camps and those can greatly boost the CS score.

Supports on the other hand untouched right?!

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Supports are not being touched because most of the time, their power in the game is directly influenced by their partner in the bot lane. With these changes, the value of supports should go down. On the other hand, support items are very strong and might be nerfed if these patches show that supports are becoming too strong.

Okay lets go over this step by step, first you have to understand the past meta over the past couple months and what the goals of these NERFS were.

Over the past couple of months, there has been a trend that bot lane and particularly ADC would take over games and were the strongest champs at every point of the game, especially with a shield/peel support. The pace of the game revolved around 1 person on each team. Another problem was that itemization was way too good for ADC's as they had their 2 core items much faster than every other champ in the game did. It was even worsened by the fact that ADC's usually had the most gold funneled into them with first towers, most kills due to the nature of bot lane and swapping lanes for more turret pressure. Riot saw this as unhealthy and this has caused them to specifically target multiple parts of what made these champs strong. The increased the cost of the items to slow down power spikes, they decreased the overall damage of crits with IE to prevent ADC's from one shotting champs, and they reduced the power of runes and base stats for ADC's to prevent the massive amount of sustain they had. What you are saying is that the true damage is is worthless compared to the old crit damage, but it was specifically meant to greatly reduce the damage output ADC's were doing to champs with lower max HP values.

Futher, you are not understanding the changes that are being made to the game in context. Yes, towers are giving a lower global gold values, but to compensate for that, they are increasing the gold given to champs that are close to the tower when it is destroyed, this means that ADC's should get more gold in theory as they usually get first tower since bot tower has reduced stats compared to other towers. Secondly, they are reducing sustain and base stats in bot so it should become more volatile since ADC's are going to spec into more agressive rune choices and have less ways to keep HP up in lane.

Well the point of the patch was to reduce jungle impact in early laning which it did for the most part. champs that do well in this patch are champs that are good a dueling other champs early on like levels 2 and 3. Watching some other video guides for this patch might also help as I'm not a jungle player.

Here's my My hope is to get to Gold this season. Got to about S2/3 before going on a losing streak, getting frustrated, then quitting ranked for a couple months. Looking for advice before I head back in.

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Stick to only one role, also try and limit yourself to one or two champions. Also, especially in lower ranks, mute your team while you play and focus on your own play.

How fast does LP and MMR drop for inactivity? Placed S3 but have S4 MMR, and ranked really tilts me, so I'm taking a break from ranked for a while. Thanks!

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I think until you are past gold, your LP will not drop for not playing. So in silver 3 you should be fine.

How about MMR? Does that drop over time?

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I don't think so, I think it is just LP

I think that jungle is the best role as right now it has some of the best champs to solo carry with in low ranks.

Not sure if this comment is allowed on this subreddit, but does the special border from the Conquerer Varus bundle only appear on my loading screen if I'm playing Varus?

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Yes, and only if you are using that skin.

Is there a way to mute enemy laughs? I have "mute enemy emotes" turned on but I can still hear them spamming laughs... It's very annoying.

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There should be an option to turn off champion sounds in your sound panel for options.

I'm a Camille main that always chokes the lane to Illaoi - what should I keep in mind when playing against her? Doesn't have to be Cam specific.

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As a top lane main myself, I just always ban her, She has a really oppressive laning phase. Two ways to beat her out is to try and wait till she runs out of mana or to get a teammate with CC to gank her. You also have to make sure to dodge her E as it makes trading with her almost impossible.

Why are Caitlyn and Jhin such high priority in competitive now? Why not Tristana, Twitch, or Sivir?

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Tristana got nerfed so her early game for worse which is very easy to punish at a high level. This also applies to Twitch as he as a weak laning phase and low range which is easy to punish in high level games. Sivir is not picked as much as her utility is not as good as some meta ADC's right now and she can not deal with tanks really well either.

How does spell penetration and armor penetration precisely work? I've seen the equiation on MR and armor, but I've failed to understand the one with spen and arpen. Whats the % reduction with each one?

I mean, e.g.:

  • "15 Spell penetration = ? "
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So if someone has 32 MR and you have 15 FLAT MAGIC PEN, then it will be like they have 15 LESS MR when you are doing damage.

Close to being demoted to Silver V here, someone told me that one way to climb elo is to become a one trick. Which champions are good for one tricking? The one’s I’ve considered one tricking are: Diana, Akali, Orianna and Nidalee.

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Whoever you find the most enjoyable to play to be honest. If you really put in time to learn the champion, you will eventually climb with that champ.

Ok sonmy “main” (even though I dont really play anymore) is Swain fir mid and too. I think Im going to have Fiora as my secondary top because of her fun kit, mobility and outplay potential. Is there a mobile, ranged assassin-ish mid with outplay potential that you would recommend as a secondary?

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Zed and Talon are both mobile assassins with outplay potential. If you want something AP, Katarina is also really good.

I saw the LS Tier List, and noticed in the description that it was a tier list for winning, not improving.

I suppose that makes sense, but what champions should someone play to improve then?

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Champs that have very little mechanics so you can focus more on what to do in the game rather than focusing what to do on your champion. Champs like Garen, Annie, Sivir, Udyr all have very little mechanics in their kit so to win, you have to play the game well rather than your champion.

Why is Skarner so strong currently?

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He is a strong tank with good consistent engage and good clearing/ganking. His weaknesses are not being taken advantage of right now because agressive jungles like Lee are not very good and tanks are easy pickings for him.

I haven't played since mid-last season where I peaked at Plat 3. Returned this season and went like 5-15 for my first 20 games or so. I was wondering what sites that you guys use for which champs are best right now and the runes/items they use! Any help is appreciated!

see more I use this as it shows the most recent builds/winrates and you can change based on ranked and region too.

Well the thing with ADC's currently is that they make or break games. Especially in later points of the game during fights, positioning and focusing well will determine who wins the game in the long run. ADC's have the most support currently with generally a tank or two on the team and a shielding support and this enables you to fight while being protected. People like QTP win easily and carry because they know how to get advantages and push those leads to win games. He knows how to pick his fights and he know how to fight really well in order to ensure most of his damage lands while still being safe. ADC is a highly mechanically intensive role and playing both micro and macro well is why you might seem to have trouble climbing. To improve on this, focus on playing one champ and play that champ well to learn how to get a lead for yourself. use that lead to force objectives and fights later. Getting bot turret, dragon, rotating to get other towers, and trading and fighting well will all lead to your team having a large advantage and this will win the game as ADC.

-4 points · 3 months ago · edited 3 months ago


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Yes at lower ranks every role is pretty braindead, but if you want to climb as an ADC you have to know basic ADC mechanics like trading in lane and positioning in fights. You can't compare most other champs with ADC's as they do different things (except maybe Azir, but even then he is still different).

Right now, especially in higher ranks, people go a bruiser/tank build on tryndamere and it seems to work really well against tanks. It is mainly pushing waves and playing safe till you get your PD/Black cleaver and there is nothing much that tanks can do against you except hope for ganks.

Original Poster1 point · 3 months ago

I play with Boxpetes build . Hydra -> Phantom -> Essense Reaver . Usually does well but not as much vs tanks which consist of my 80% matches.

Can you describe the order of your build ? Or link it

see more Look at the most popular item triples and look at the most popular runes. It is a build of PD > BC > Hydra and the main rune is grasp.

From what I’ve noticed and read, a lot of the top laners that aren’t happy with the state of the game right now are saying that in higher MMRs, there’s not a lot of reasoning to pick a “bruiser”. For the most part they lack a great keystone like they had with fervor, so their gameplay in general feels lackluster to before and isn’t as fun for them. Tanks are very strong in general, with easy kits, decent damage and strong potential, which makes it a no brainer to pick these champions if you’re interested in climbing (these tanks typically make a bruiser’s life hell because they outscale them).

Also, one thing I’ve noticed is that a top lane players that have grievances remember the game in season 3/4 where you can 1v9 carry, there wasn’t as much of a teamplay aspect and solo carrying on snowball, damage top laners was a realistic win strategy. Nowadays top lane is usually more focused around wave management, jungle involvement and TP usage, not really 1v1 prowess (depends on the MMR though).

If any top lane mains disagree or want to add on feel free, this is just what I’ve noticed in my time reading posts and watching videos/streams

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I think to add on to this, you also have to understand the impact of bruisers and top laners in general. Many people think that top lane has very little impact and thought it can be seen like that, it is more because ADC's have too much impacts. It is very difficult to deal with ADC's as a melee champion that is not an assassin. Supports have really strong ways to shut down melee champs like a Jax, Irelia, and even tanks like Maokai and Sion. They all get beat up pretty hard by peeling supports and that just makes them more useless.

Another thing that top laners complain about is that Ninjatabis are overtuned and that it ruins the top lane meta. But they also fail to recognize that melee champs would have no way to deal with ADC's and strong ranged harass. Yes it slows the game a bit but the game would be much more unbalaced without it.

And the largest reason why top laners are complaining right now is because they do not want to adapt to what is good or what should be played (to win). A majority of players who seem to be complaining are bruiser specific players. Hashinshin, Wickd, ICU and usually lower ranked players who just play whatever they want. But other top lane players like the Riven one tricks, Pro players, Dekar and bruiser only players. These people either adapt to what is being played and don't complain about the lane when their champions are bad. Of course there are exceptions to this, but people are mainly complaining that their champs are bad and that it is unfun to play against champs they don't play or don't like.

Why does no one use Poachers Dirk?

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It is very unreliable as it requires you put yourself at risk to try and save about 600 gold. It also doesn't have good stats for what it cost. For 10 AD and 500 gold, it is not worth the amount of gold it costs.

Thanks man. In fact already doing Garen, who do you suggest to take as a secondary if someone else picks him?

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Darius is also pretty good and similar to Garen. If not Darius, I think Renekton is great but he is a little difficult with his animation cancels and combos.

I feel like a Hash is just doing the same thing that he is complaining that ADC's are doing. I've been playing top since season 3 and I think it is in a decent spot, especially compared to other season. I think Hash is more of a bruiser player rather than a top laner and if his champs are not good, he is going to complain until riot does something or he quits, he is unwilling to adapt to the meta and lane (clearly shown through the numerous clips of him refusing to play safe after dying once or twice).

I like the idea but coin is straight up better. You NEVER proc relic unless your jungler is there for some odd reason. I personally run coin on GP most of my games, the passive is very useful because you will miss cs whether you want to or not.

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Coin is not always straight up better, they provide different things and in competitive play specifically, relic is used over coin as the 75 hp is much more useful in combination with runes than the 5% CDR and chance for mana and gold drops would be.

It's both, you have to point and click to use his Q. I think he should get minion aggro only if he casts his Q on a champion. If he were to cast it on a minion, and it hits a champion, then he can ignore the minion aggro.

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Well, Lucian Q is targeted I guess but you can actually dodge it with a flash or a sidestep or something like that. The things that seem to be targeted are things like an Akali Q or Kass Q which you can not dodge.

You can dodged Jayces hammer Q. The AOE area gets calculated at the start of the jump but the dmg is applied when he lands. if you are fast you can actually run out of the AOE and with flash you can 100% dodge the AOE easily.

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I wasn't talking about Jayce Hammer Q, I'm just saying Lucian Q isn't exactly targeted.

Do the 8.2 nerfs to having relic shield/targons on a ranged champion apply to Thresh as well?

If so, how much do these actually hurt him?

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Yes it does apply to him, I don't think the whole reason he is picked is his sustain in lane. His laning is going to be a little weaker but other then that he should be okay still.

What should I do against nasus? Who counters him the hardest right now? It seems like even good ranged bullies he can just wait till 6 and all-in to win. Plus the whole talisman/klepto needs look at because the gold income on laners who can survive with it is way too good.

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Klepto is getting nerfed pretty hard early game so that will hurt nasus. Other than that, I don't think any other champ really win's against nasus. Some champs like GP or Illaoi could both go even but after klepto nerfs, they are both also going to fall down a bit.

Take a break from the game and come back after you feeling like playing against. Right now it is a pretty toxic time to play and it seems like you are tilted too. Take a break and come back in a week.

I feel like doing what most koreans do is best. Both SKT Junglers take FFW and so does Peanut and Ambition. Otherwise, just go with whatever you feel better with.

You shouldn,t try and force yourself to try and enjoy playing a champion. Play what you enjoy the most and find champs similar to that, if you like tanky, high damage threats, play champs like that. Champs like Darius, Yorick, Illaoi, Nasus, are all champs that fill that role. They are not the best engagers but they have good dueling and split pushing if played correctly.

Original Poster1 point · 4 months ago

Yeah yeah, play what you love since the whole point of video games is to have fun. The thing is, I wanna both be successful and have fun in my games. Tanks are an important part of any toplane meta, so my ideal would be to "learn" how to have fun playing tanks when the need arises.

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You don't need to play tanks to be successful, the number one rank players in NA last season and currently is an Akali/Irelia two trick. He rarely plays tanks and is still rank one. If you play something well enough you can find success, don't worry too much about what you are playing.

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November 17, 2014

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