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6.8k points · 3 days ago

I mean a lot of running clothes do have purpose other than just looking like they are for running.

Don't catch sweat as easily, slimmer on the body, allow for more airflow, etc.

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Exactly!

Is it just the one thing?

I wouldn't diagnose him with an "inferiority complex" just yet...

In fact, trying and failing at sports might just be what he needs to put him in his place.

If you're worried about his development, on the other hand, I would say "You can join the team if you play a game of chess with me every night". Or, something along those lines, so that he's not throwing otherwise valuable skills away in his search for attention.

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Why would you "put someone in their place" if they are an aspiring individual?

It was a just a way of saying that "he might figure out it's not what he really wants".

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Well his core motivations seem to be very strong and very established. Only the way he gets to his basic goal is not set in stone.

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2

Which cognitive function is constantly, metaphorically speaking, asking "How?" and "Why?" at the back of the head?

e.g. you see a gas station and instantly, at the back of your head, wonder where all the fuel is being stored, you notice an advertisement for an app and you wonder how their business model works, you look at some kind of machine and wonder how it works, you read about international politics and you ponder how exactly one country gains power and influence over another, or when people want you to conform to their norms and conventions and you wonder why you should and what the point of the conventions is and why others are following them, or when it comes to decision-making and you wonder if you should do something or not, the question is always "Why? What's the point?" and if there is no deeper meaning to it, you don't do it or avoid doing it.

And that just repeats all over the place where you notice more and more how all the time when you watch a movie you constantly see plotholes or wonder how a technology works (e.g. Iron Man suit that doesn't make sense because how the heck does it not overheat and how does Stark fit all this tech in this suit) or you wonder why people spend so much money on this or that or why they say this or that and what it says about how their brains work. And why exactly did evolution make humanity as it is today? Which behavior or trait fits what evolutionary purpose?

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19 comments

I don’t think so. ENTP’s shadow is ISFJ, no Ni in that. Whatever type you feel suits you just call yourself it then, just study functions more, but most importantly: study yourself more and figure it all out. Goodluck

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Original Poster1 point · 4 days ago

Every person uses all 8 functions. Thus, every person has Ni. Otherwise, there would be people who are utterly incapable of using, for example, Se, which is simply not true. Also, ISFJs are not the shadows of ENTPs AFAIK because the shadow functions are the 4 functions one does not use. Thus, the ENTPs shadow needs to have Ni, thus Sensing has to be extroverted. The ENTPs shadow must be ISFP. ISFJ just reverses the letters, not the functions.

1 point · 4 days ago · edited 4 days ago

Of course everyone uses all 8 but to a certain extent. 4 of those 8 pretty much make you up consciously which is your ego. But The really really important functions out of those 4 are your primary and secondary functions, those are the foundation for your house, you could be a certain type with a stronger different tertiary but still be that type, make sense? Sure, we can say everyone has Ni but it’s strength will vary greatly depending where it’s stacked, naturally Ni-doms have the strongest Ni, ESTP’s strongest Se, etc. But back to my original comment, you sound Ne dom because the way you asked those questions seemed more natural. Sure I saw some spurts of Ni but your Ne overpowers your Ni by a long shot.

So yes, you could very well be a gifted ENTP with access to lots of functions.

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Original Poster1 point · 4 days ago

Well of course not everyone has strong Ni, but everyone has Ni and can access it to some degree or the other, and everyone can develop their functions through practice.

And yeah, I think you are right about my type. ENTP seems fairly fitting but there is some inconsistency because of particularly strong Ni, and to a certain extent, Te as well, although the latter is one of the functions I have also been consciously developing. A type with some oddities in their function stacks being possible is the most fitting explanation here.

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Original Poster1 point · 7 days ago

Haha, I'm getting that too.

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Doesn't look like the test is very good, but the results indicate you are almost certainly an NT. I would guess either ENTP or INTJ because of dominant intuition. ENTP seems more likely because of 0% Se, but the test is likely flawed and you should do more of them or let people type you on this subreddit.

Original Poster1 point · 4 days ago

Thank you for your thoughts! I am just starting to learn about dominant/inferior functions. I don't know why the Fe, Ti, etc. stuff is so confusing to me- I'm probably overthinking it. I just ordered some books from the library and will do some reading online!

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Well in that case, I think you should know this right away: please keep in mind every person has all 8 functions. Every person has Ni, every person has Te, every person has Fe etc. The MBTI type just indicates in which order of development and in which role the functions appear in our cognition. That can have profound effects on our personality, but MBTI and the functions are just one of multiple dimensions of an individual's personality: the enneagram examines a different dimension: core values, desires and fears.

This question is more about Enneagram types rather than MBTI types because MBTI describes cognitive functioning, enneagram describes core desires and fears.

236

... the vast majority of people in this world... NEED sex? They don't just like sex, they NEED it? They fight over it, hurt themselves and others over it, obsess over it. The media is obsessed with sex and romance. Most things people do are just because they want to have sex and be married. People kill themselves or others because of this stuff, commit crimes, destroy their lives, waste all their money.

I am in a madhouse.

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99 comments

Obviously. That's irrelevant. Opinions can be dumb. Like yours.

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Original Poster1 point · 27 days ago

Ok.

They THINK they need sex because that's what the media has been hypnotizing them with since birth. To act like horny and violent chimps.

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Original Poster1 point · 1 month ago

It's not the media that is behind that. It's evolutionary history.

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14

Remembering my childhood, I realize now why I was feeling and thinking the way I did. I think I understand why I felt this internal pain all the time. Everything around me was so... absurd. I hated children and babies because they would cry or get angry or excited over all kinds of things. Things I felt in some way about, but I could not describe it until recently... all those things felt... trivial and meaningless. I hated all the arbitrary rules that "the adults" wanted me and others to follow.

And now here I am, wondering if I was born a nihilist.

Edit: 42 people online. Coincidence?

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37 comments

Yes, I think we are born with our outlooks. I remember at 3 or 4, feeling that the fact I was born who I was, in my particular body, was incredibly arbitrary. My dad struggled to understand what my issue was when I tried to explain it to him.

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Original Poster2 points · 28 days ago

I think we are born with a base personality that doesn't really change, a basic set of cognitive functions (see MBTI) that we rely on primarily, and that shapes our basic outlook or philosophical tendencies, of which some might also be innate.

2 points · 28 days ago

See why technically speaking is silly?

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Original Poster2 points · 28 days ago

No...

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14

Does anyone else here have these values/desires, or at least some of them:

-fame, recognition, to be important and meaningful

-power, influence and independence

-to be special, extraordinary, outstanding

-to change the world, improve it to fit one's vision, apply envisioned solutions to major problems such as how to deal with the growing importance of AI

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22 comments

Basically 90% of population have these goals. This sub is unhealthy...

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Original Poster1 point · 29 days ago

Um no? See my other reply. If 90% of the world had these goals, the world would be entirely different. Many things such as marriage etc. would not exist because almost nobody would value love, happiness etc. so highly that they would get married.

INTJs don't value fame. you te ENTJ. Thank me later.

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Original Poster1 point · 29 days ago

Your personality type doesn't necessarily determine all of your values. It is more about how you use your cognitive functions. The INTJ cognitive function stack fits me very well. In particular, I have inferior Se, not inferior Fi.

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I really want the end of this movie to have Millie Bobby Brown piloting Godzilla Ratatouille-style, when he finally has the big showdown with King Ghidorah. It'll never happen, but that would make the movie one of the best things ever created by human beings.

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How about Godzilla piloing King Ghidorah Ratatouille-style against Millie Bobby Brown?

"Our world is changing."

Aaaaaaand fuck you!

39

I sure do hope there will ultimately be multiple options for achieving immortality. Mind uploading seems like a bad idea considering solar flares and continuity of consciousness. Also hackers and government surveillance.

IMO the best option might be to become a cyborg with various augmentations such as anti-aging enzymes.

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133 comments

I don't disagree with the possibility of what you say. However, I disagree with the confidence with which you said, what you said.

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Original Poster1 point · 1 month ago

Well, that confidence is based on my firm belief in my world view. It seems to me to be the most logical theory on how life evolved. I don't disagree with you in any way here, actually, because yes, I might be wrong and it might have happened differently. But until that is proven, I will believe that we were one unlikely but amazing coincidence because that seems most logical to me. Admittedly, that is also a very inspiring possibility because it means we are on our own and can forge our own path among the stars. ^

By the way, we have really come a long way in this discussion lol. We started out at something about the purpose of humans and went over a discussion of what will is and now we are suddenly at the beginning of life on Earth.

Well, that is a fine discussion we've had. I appreciate your input and the manner in which you've conducted yourself rhetorically. I take what you said into deep consideration, and this conversation will forge the basis of the future development of my ideas.

Thanks again.

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Original Poster1 point · 1 month ago

Thank you for the interesting conversation. You are obviously very intelligent, I hope you will continue to use your gifts to their full potential. :)

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6

Any tips on how to develop inferior Se while using it as merely a means to an end, that end being to complement my Ni and Te? In the last 2 years, I have started to try and become better at various tasks revolving around dealing with the physical environment etc., but I wasn't consciously aware that I was developing a specific function. Also, is there any particularly efficient ways or tricks and tips regarding this?

Edit: What I mainly did was use my five senses more to gather info from my environment, then interpret its meaning, like reading people in the supermarket or navigating crowds and chaotic places. Also, playing soccer, lol.

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Using Se would be doing things like playing sport, baking, and making art. Actually, drawing, painting, sculpting, etc. is a good activity for you if you’re looking to develop, because there’s Fi involved also- it’s important not to skip your tertiary function when you’re trying to develop yourself

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Original Poster1 point · 1 month ago

Good suggestions. I did draw for some time and it had some noticeable effects. I also used to produce videos, which I found to be really interesting, but I am doubtful about there being an audience.

Strain of Se can mean either a.) abusing or b.) disregarding / being unaware of your physical surroundings

Eating mindfully is asking yourself to gtfo of your own head and pay attention

"are you hungry?" eat

"are you full?" stop eating

most Ni's struggle with how to engage healthily - not just with food, but the whole realm of Se. It's not just about "skills;" it's about presence and engagement and action as well

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Original Poster1 point · 1 month ago

I usually watch videos while I eat, unless I eat with someone else and am conversing with them. And yes, I notice when I am full. Is that the kind of thing you are referring to?

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6

I have been stuck reloading the same autosave and attempting to win the same battle over and over again for days now, only to quit after an hour or two because every single time I fail. The battle is against 20 ghouls, and about 2 thirds of their attacks hit (hit chance usually around 50% while only about 1/5th of my attacks hit (chance around 50-75%). Another problem might be insufficient armour, my mercs have 115 at best. But I can't seem to find any other armour anywhere and I am always below 1000 crowns because there is almost no contracts anywhere and if they are, they end up sending me on trips that take one payment to complete to face off against opponents I cannot defeat so that I end up empty-handed, or they have me chase thieves and those end up having such a lead that I walk across the whole known part of the map to catch them. I cannot trust contracts anymore, so I will have to switch to searching for enemies that run around freely to even keep me going.

Edit: Economic difficulty is Veteran, and I am utterly frustrated by the fact that I can't seem to ever earn money to any significant degree, that alone is crippling already. I have only one ranged merc, and he isn't exactly good. I can't afford hunters and bowyers are pretty much always terrible and a waste of money unless you just want to get the bow. What. The. Fuck. Am. I. Doing. Wrong. Jesus. Christ.

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50 comments

You'd probably do better with a full front line of all spears and just a couple strong two-handers in the back lines to chop up problems.

Put the spears on guys who won't miss. My gut says your 3 spears have trash melee, although 3 of 12 is too few spears vs Nachs. Fuck it, give everyone a spear and report back :P

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Original Poster1 point · 1 month ago

I don't have that many spears and I have no money.

Well, I managed to win the battle by now, anyways. Doesn't solve the economic problems.

2 points · 1 month ago · edited 1 month ago

Congrats!

Contract payout is proportional to renown. If you don't even have a banner yet (!!!), you probably have low renown? And so low payouts. Also, if you're failing a lot of missions, that ain't good.

65 or more melee attack sounds good enough for now.

Tbh, it sounds like your problems run deeper than any one fight. If you're consistently failing missions and have no money, the problem is probably with your overall strategy. Try to build up your renown at a good clip (friendly w/ 1 town and 12 bros are both super easy successes), get at least 2-3 archers, and find a pike ASAP :)

I'd have to see your current situation to see if I had any ideas, but usually when I feel desperate I attack caravans. They will typically put up little fight and yield a good 2k.

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Original Poster1 point · 1 month ago

I have both of those missions fulfilled by now. But I can't afford a pike or archers.

I might give caravan attacks a try.

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1 point · 1 month ago

humans are more individualistic than nerve cells are

Current humans are, but I would presume an effective hivemind would take away the individuality of it's component humans, which is your point right? You wouldn't join a hivemind because it'll take away your individuality? So if it does that, then the logical conclusion would be that the humans within a hive-mind aren't very individual anymore. You'd be giving up control for the collective.

And how are you going to remove that, and also how do you expect this to not end with another one of those world wars?

I didn't say a hive-mind makes us immune to a world war. I'm certain that we'll have more war before we stop. That's probably true with or without a hive-mind.

a hivemind of maybe 5.000 people will still be inferior to billions of other people.

But those billions are against each other in any local endeavor. When you go for a job, or try to eat food, or build a shelter, you're not doing it for the 7 billion. You're doing it for you/your family, at the expense of the others that could. When you get a job you don't feel guilty that the others you fought for the place now need to get another job, and might suffer because of that. A hive-mind takeover would be a slow process where small hive-minds dominate small areas academically, professionally and technologically. Then as they accumulate more people and the gap widens, due to many reasons (fear of missing out, greed, hive minds collaborating, hive minds duplicating themselves and so on) they will eventually take over. It wont be 1 hive mind vs 7 billion, it will be 3 triplets that decide they'd temporarily become a hive mind to beat your startup company. Then they like the results and stay that way, and then other hive-minds out compete the humans around them and so forth.

Another idea: if we are digital and can copy/paste, then a hive mind doesn't need to convince others to join it. Imagine you and me were in a hive-mind. We could simply take our data, average it out, and produce a person that is a mix of us both. Maybe make someone 50.0001% you and 49.9999% me. Then 50.0002% and 49.9998% and so on.. and as the hive mind collects more cognitive power they will be able to build on themselves much more effectively. Think about the superintelligent AI problem but in the context of a hive-mind.

I'd imagine a sufficiently advanced hive mind could also just be smart enough to trick, manipulate, negotiate and so forth with humans in a trivial manner to get them to join if for some reason it couldn't build on itself with clones, AI and the like.

That's not what I am arguing against. I am arguing against its inevitability. I could go back to the WWII analogies now and ask why Hitler didn't win the war then.

I'm telling you that it's not a suitable analogy, because a hive-mind like ideology using humans as individuals isn't anywhere near similar to an actual hive-mind of humans.

Yes, okay. We are indeed assuming things here. I am kind of arguing against it being possible, but mainly I am arguing against it being victorious.

That's fair enough, and I'd love to discuss both. I think the possibility would be dependent on other factors, but to be honestly I've been thinking that we are discussing "should a hive-mind be possible, it will be the superior form of posthuman".

Another way to illustrate my view is to imagine a posthuman compared to a transhuman compared to a normal human. I would class a hive-mind like this, almost like a separate species (species isn't the correct word but I can't think of what to call it).

They would be an extension of myself though. So still me.

Right, so would everyone else in any hive-mind system. So is your phone. So is any poetry you've written. It's not you as in the identity you ascribe to the collection of neurons, cells, bacteria, enzymes and neurotransmitters that comprise your physical form.

I would be the hivemind because every part of it is a copy of me,

It's a copy of you at creation. The moment it senses something different, has a different experience, forms a new memory, alters it's digital self in a different way and so on then it is not a copy of you anymore. It's just someone really similar.

Imagine if you copy/paste yourself. That clone overhears something, or catches a virus or something and changes it's gender. That causes a chain of events. Then they turn off the ability to feel pain, delete their memories, and take the physical form of a dog because it sounds fun. Are they still the same you? I'd argue that they're a different entity with different thoughts and such.

these start to diverge, that still updates the whole.

Which is a hive-mind! So if you think anyone would ever find it beneficial to clone themselves and merge their experiences, then a hive mind is inevitable. This obviously alludes to what I said earlier about having to have a separate discussion (can we clone, can we digitise, how would they connect as a hive mind and so forth).

If I am in a hivemind with my clones and one of them learns something, every other part of the hivemind learns it too. It would always be me but with multiple bodies and a bigger stream of data flowing.

But those other bodies wouldn't be you an instant after creation, and even if the data is a constant stream it makes it no different. You're losing your identity to a macro-version of lots of similar you's. There's no difference between a hive-mind of lots of brains with different experiences, thoughts, (originally) genes and so forth, and one which has lots of similar (almost identical) ones.

In fact, I'd have thought a hive-mind would take the humans within it and mold them to be the same. So you'd be the same as the psychopath in your previous question, and the psychopath would be the same as you. So your argument for the difference isn't quite going against normal hive-minds (as opposed to clone-minds).

But those non-hive minds would most likely form an alliance to stop it because they don't want to be forced to join the hivemind.

I feel like it would be too subtle. We haven't joined together to take down AI yet. When A.I gets big and scary and an actual imminent threat, we might. By then A.I would be a challenge to stop. I think hive-minds would be similar. Using a hive-mind technology to keep two dying sisters alive or to give comatose patients a way to experience life through another person won't be rallied against by the world. Then once that's commonplace and they start to become an immediate threat, then sure we'll work together to defeat it but I also think it'll be insanely difficult to stop.

Nobody wanted to live in a fascist regime.

The hive-minds might come about from necessity (comatose patients), being manipulated, or for the greater good.

For example, imagine how love changes when you can merge with your partner. Perhaps some people would like that idea. Or, imagine if there was a group that hive-minded together to form a world government and you wanted to make decisions because that's important? Or you joined a hive-mind to be a part of some other big change, like to get humans interplanetary or cure a robots version of poverty/world hunger/etc?

Even if a hive-mind taking over will result in fascism, you're not taking into account that it's present-day humans that are against that (not post-humans necessarily), that the hive-mind wont try to do that at first (potentially for many millennia) and many people are short-sighted.

Giving your cancer-ridden, bed-stricken mother the ability to learn through your body might be more important than indirectly contributing to a hive-mind in 350 years. You'll probably not even think about it and just help your mother.

Again, comparison to WWII. Nobody wanted to live in a fascist regime. If a hivemind arises, it gets destroyed. And be it by violence and use of weapons.

A hivemind, especially a digital one, can just upload to the cloud/internet/whatever. It'll survive. Also, we had to have WW1 and WW2 in order to learn from it (and even then, it's likely that nukes prevent WW3). This reinforces my point from earlier that we wont stop hive-minds until they become an issue, and when they're an issue it'll be too late because they'll be a lot of them and they'll be fairly advanced.

Edit: Loving this discussion so far - I really wish I could agree because I'm not happy with the idea of a hive mind collective. I simply can't see how, if we presume it's able to exist, a hivemind (or a bunch of them) will be incapable of outcompeting other humans. Especially if they start off docile and helpful.

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I didn't say a hive-mind makes us immune to a world war. I'm certain that we'll have more war before we stop. That's probably true with or without a hive-mind.

No, I am saying we start a war against hiveminds if we need to.

Wow, I see you think a lot about this. I have thought a lot of those aspects before, too. But more in regards to AI than anything else, such as hiveminds.

I agree, most people are short-sighted, and also small-minded. But there is people like you or me, who are not. I think that it is important to turn fear or anxiety over these issues into action and a solid plan to prevent such an occurance or at least be prepared for it.

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1 point · 1 month ago

No, I am saying we start a war against hiveminds if we need to.

I don't think that is good enough. Hiveminds will be a part of many businesses, society and maybe even culture before it becomes a threat and we "need to". Imagine if people woke up to McDonalds or Social Media, but the buildings/apps were smarter than us. We'd be doomed.

Wow, I see you think a lot about this. I have thought a lot of those aspects before, too. But more in regards to AI than anything else, such as hiveminds.

You put forward amazing points and I'm glad we got to talk about it! I'd love to pick your brain on other subjects, maybe in PM's, if you'd like? I have also thought a lot about these technologies. Aside from hive-minds actually, which I've been thinking about as I type, and you've definitely given me a lot to think about now. I appreciate that.

I agree, most people are short-sighted, and also small-minded. But there is people like you or me, who are not. I think that it is important to turn fear or anxiety over these issues into action and a solid plan to prevent such an occurance or at least be prepared for it.

I absolutely agree, and that's why I follow transhumanism. I feel like there aren't enough people that care about the long-term, and that's fundamentally a part of the human race, so we need to get more intellectual work done by other means (such as A.I).

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Sure, we can move this to the PMs.

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Everyone uses all functions, some are just more important than others in a person's inner workings.

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I realize that any type can have that goal, but which types are, in your opinion, the most likely and least likely to?

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16 comments

God i hope. But it's too risky for that. I'd more likely want to have a durable main body and remote control other bodies from afar. (these other bodies would be cheap to replace and hell maybe i could use them to explore other genders and body types)

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That's very much what I am thinking of.

Comment deleted1 month ago

Possibly, yes. We will see what we can come up with.

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Continuity of consciousness and solar flares seem like huge concerns to me.

I've always wanted to know what it would feel like to perceive sex as any sort of necessity. If I go a few days without eating, I'll get hungry and really want to eat. But then I see most people go a few hours without sex and it consumes their brain much like a desire for garlic bread or cake once you start thinking about it. Once it's on your mind, the phantom taste just sits on your tongue until you satiate the desire or get thoroughly distracted. Is that kind of like what desire for sex feels like? Like do they start feeling a warm tingle on their genitals that just intensifies until the desire is satiated just to start the cycle over again? I know there's little chance anyone here would have the answers, but maybe a fellow asexual has gone through something like a "Pon Farr" to be able to relate the two.

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I assume it is like being addicted to meth or something? Doesn't sound rational, that's for sure.

What do you even mean by still? Is this a thing people do as kids or teenagers?

The best Russian snipers were women.

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