It's on Ryan Hall's back attacks dvd
This is actually why I ask. In his DVD he goes to the choking arm side and uses the INSIDE arm to hold the back of the head and not the outside arm that I thought was the more common way to do it. So in Ryan Hall's example, uke has their right arm as the choking arm and is on his right side. He escapes by pinning down uke's right foot hook and then grabbing the back of uke's head with his LEFT arm. I have normally seen this done where the RIGHT arm would be grabbing the back of the head.
Their head is usually (or should be) on the opposite side of the choking arm, so trying to grab it with the right arm would be super awkward
We all have our preferred techniques...make sure to land on the side not your back...find a grip you can sink.in quick...and learn to side crunch or pirate arms ...Learn the transitions between guillotine to anaconda ... To darce ...so when they do defend you have other options available again to tire and frustrate them ...once you get them down add in baseball chokes ....if not to submit to.crank the neck roll them...that's what I'm perfecting at the minute...renzo put up a nice vid recently of a arm in guillotine using the Ezekiel finish...pretty sweet.
Got a link to that Renzo video?
I'm a very new white belt but it's at least reassuring to see that higher belts can have trouble with takedowns too, I'm still very new, but of all the things I've learned, takedowns feel the hardest to get right, it seems there's a lot less room for error during that early stand up game, if I do something sloppy on the ground, most of the time there's some opportunity to try and correct or mitigate your screw up, but it feels like even the slightest mistake during stand up just ends with me in a guillotine or scrambling to protect my back.
You actually can do the same mitigating during stand up, if you shoot a sloppy shot, get good at playing turtle, or pulling guard from turtle
I don't want to be caught in a dark alley with her. Shudders
This is an absolutely laughable type of argumentation.
OP's buddy got injured either because his partner is a sociapathic asshole or because he himself is a stubborn idiot who doesn't tap when he should have.
The fact that a heel hook does indeed have much less headroom for that kind of personal failures does not make it some life-threatening fiive finger death punch and your knee will not explode if I grab your heel.
The fact that you are even argueing in that direction shows that the biggest problem with them is education. People don't know shit about them and then they they either try them out and end up hurting somebody, or (much much more likely) they are uneducated on that matter like you are and then they end up not tapping when they should have.
I do Luta Livre and we learn heel hooks from day one. In over three years of training and having been at over 30 comps and invitationals both at beginner level and pro level I have only witnessed people getting injured by heel hooks because they didn't tap when they should have. I also know no stories from my coaches or other people where it happened in another way.
I have seen significantly more injuries from armbars for the same reason though, but the difference is, that a stubborn ego in a heel hook will be significatntly worse.
This doesn't make heel hooks more or less dangerous, but being an idiot.
a stubborn ego in a heel hook will be significatntly worse.
And here we have it
Education is a problem, but uneducated people know when they're in an armbar and it's slowly getting extended that shit is getting bad. Uneducated people in a heel hook might not. And everyone starts out uneducated, unfortunately.
And everyone starts out uneducated, unfortunately.
Which brings us back to the sociopathic dickheads. You don't do techniques to point where you can injure others on people who don't know it.
Technique is like a tool. A hammer isn't more dangerous than a screwdriver because it takes less force to break your thumb with it and a screwdriver isn't more dangerous because it takes less force to stab somebody than to smash their heads.in with a hammer.
This whole discussion is just laughable.
I definitely think that heel hooks can and should be trained safely, I've done it.
However, I think that we can objectively say that heel hooks are more "dangerous" than armbar, and deserve the according respect. Using your tool example, the one that is more dangerous is the one that is easier to fuck up with and accidentally cause an injury.
A knife and a gun are two tools that can both kill people equally dead. The gun is more dangerous because it's easier to accidentally cause a tragedy with it, two kids fucking around with a knife is safer than two kids fucking around with a loaded gun. So, handling loaded guns need to be treated with a bit more respect than a knife.
So they don't have to submit anybody, just not get dominated? I'd have them get really good at a back escape, and proper defensive arm/neck positioning (T-rexing) because they're going to be ending up there a lot. Then, I'd teach them to give up their back in every situation (stuck in mount? Give up the back and keep rolling. Stuck in side control? Roll to turtle, maybe get back taken. Stuck in closed guard? Give the back, then escape.) I'd throw in a half guard sweep, probably old school, since that's where they'll most likely end up out of the back escape. Hopefully the blues and whites they're going against aren't at a purple/brown/black belt level of back attacks.
I actually was there a couple weeks ago, did both gi and no gi. It was awesome, super chill, nice people. Most training were brown and under but they were all very good. Average class size is around 10. From the pictures, and looking from the outside in, the place looks super small, but when you're rolling, it actually doesn't affect you or get in the way, unlike another spot I've been to.
I have no sympathy for you bro, I'm 115 pounds. Deep half was a lifesaver for me. Also, the crucifix works a lot better for me than traditional back control. Most of my successful subs have been crucifix chokes, armbars(from the top), ankle locks, ezekiels, and north south chokes.