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'Master of None' star Aziz Ansari accused of sexual assault

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Goddamn, 2018!

It's okay. In about a week Trump will get impeached and replaced by Bernie Sanders. Leah Remini will single handedly bring down every religion on this planet except for the Catholic church because she ends up marrying the Pope. They drive off into the sunset in Tesla, because 2018 is the year when Elon Musk decided that everyone should get a free Tesla.

In your perfect world fantasy, the catholic church becomes MORE dominant?

Yeah that part was just bizarre

Somebody enjoyed catholic school more than I did

Are you not aware that we like Catholics here? You should brush up on your reddit hivemind studies.

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Also gates solves cancer and malaria. We all get UBI. Aliens.

I..don't know enough about 2018 yet to dispute this.

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The Roast of James Franco aired in 2013.

It contains all the context necessary to notice that Aziz Ansari has a weak-ass spirit.

Get your 20XX incantations outta here, and go feel a real thing about a real-ass thing. This wasn't Tom Hanks, it was Asiz An-fuckin-sari.

aziz kills on that roast what are you talking about

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134 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

I read the whole thing. He still comes out looking pretty bad. By the time they got to the couch to watch Seinfeld, it should have been obvious to any one with a sliver of social intelligence that this woman was not comfortable. Mixed signals? Perhaps, but when confronted with mixed signals, the correct thing to confirm that everyone is on the same page, not undo someone's pants.

On a sidenote, is fingers in the mouth a thing that people seriously do? I thought that was just a porno invention. Hell if I'm letting anyone stick their fingers in my mouth, them things is filthy.

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35 points·3 months ago

Hell if I'm letting anyone stick their fingers in my mouth, them things is filthy.

I've got bad news for you. Even if I just vigoriously fingered a toilet brush, your mouth is most likely more filthy than my fingers.

Mouths are nasty places.

Somehow I don’t believe you would put a toilet brush in your mouth.

I googled it

People have that fetish

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More filthy based on what?

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Well um maybe its just me but when my girl starts sucking on my fingers the countdown drops from a minute to a second before I'm gonna blast off

Yes, people do indeed do fingers in the mouth.. It can be a huge turn on for people. Although, it's a little forced and tacky on the first date.

This date was awkward and Asis came off as an over-confident entitled celebrity jerk-off, but it was very far from sexual assault.

It is clear from the response to these allegations that Reddit users are generally very sexually vanilla and void of numerous sexual encounters. Anyone who has had to go through the pains of dating for numerous years, would realise that mixed signals and missed opportunities come along with it.

It's incredibly normal for females to resist the initial advancements of men in early stages of dating. Often times, the men "push" through the initial resistance and end up sleeping with the women. And often times, this leads to long lasting relationships.

However, other times, men give in to women's initial resistance due to numerous factors including: naivety, a delusional sense of chivalry, thinking that "being nice" will eventually get them laid (it doesn't), or most commonly: lack of experience and lack of confidence. And that is sad because it probably results in many relationships that could-have-been but never-were. And it's confusing and frustrating, because the reality is that many females are attracted to men who have the confidence to take the initiative and persuade the couple into sex. Except, sometimes the women truly don't want sexual advancement, and they can say No, but it's sad that they may fear saying No because most men are physically dominant and the women may not want to escalate the situation.

It's a tough situation with no easy answer. But I know that Asis doesn't deserve to have his personal details released and career potentially ruined over an awkward date (while the women remains anonymous).

thinking that "being nice" will eventually get them laid (it doesn't),

Okay dude, there are young guys here who'll read this and assume you're correct.

You're not correct. Actual nice guys do in fact get laid. It's the "nice guys" that don't. The thing is you have to actually BE nice.

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This shit is getting ridiculous. We need some sort of due process in a court of law at this point, because to have the power to ruin someone's life in the court of public opinion by just posting a story about them on the Internet, no matter how long and detailed or short and vague, is seriously scary to me.

In this case it sounds like they were both idiots here. Aziz comes off as a creep but that's it, this sounds like nothing more than sexual harassment and I don't think someone should be crucified for that unless we start hearing different accounts of the same sort of behavior from different women. At no point does any of this sound like sexual assault, he never physically forces her into anything and she never says no to any of it. She had the right to say no and leave at any point in time, and instead she sucks his dick? Come on. And this isn't like the Franco allegation where he physically forced her head toward his dick.

He made a mistake and I expect him to come out soon and own up to it (I imagine he's probably talking to his lawyer right now about how to handle this), but after it's all said and done I'm going to be really sad if his career ends up ruined because of one sole allegation in the court of public opinion.

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and was it her mouth? i think i'm confused now...

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Because of the implications.

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he performed oral sex on her, then she performed oral sex on him...maybe not super romantic, but at least up until that point seemed consensual?

2 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

What condemns him really is him reporting agreeeing to back it up and just chill then seemingly immediately trying again. She clearly liked him and thought he’d be like he is on tv and then he kept going

The shit with the mirror for me was where it got really fucked up, like that’s straight up insane

Also imo in relation to their body of work this is more damning than what Louis CK did

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I don’t know if it’s be sexual assault or not because it’s murky... but it was really fucking inappropriate and Aziz is going to look like asshole more so because he’s been claiming to be a modern man for the past 7 years

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97 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

If you read her entire description of the night, it comes of as very confusing as she gives him mixed signals throughout the night.

No she doesn't...he puts her hand on his junk and she rejects it the advance...I learned that means no in HS, maybe Aziz needs a lesson in basic "she isn't into it".

it comes of as very confusing as she gives him mixed signals throughout the night.

When you put a girls hand on your dick and she pulls away, that's the ultimate no signal, you don't need any other signal than that regardless of what went on during the rest of the night.

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73 points·3 months ago(0 children)

its pretty simple.

if she says no, it's rejection. stop it and move on.

if she says maybe or maybe later, then you can try again at another time and see her reaction which usually will lead to no anyways.

That's it, it doesn't matter about 'mixed signals' (I didn't see any on that article either), there were clear signals back at his place.

Who knows, maybe she would have been ok with a bit of a kissing session and meet up again some time.

He clearly seems to have pushed it beyond that.

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suddenly become autistic (emphasis mine)

That right there is the proof that they are playing dumb. These are socially smart people who pretend to be socially dumb in such situations because they be like "you've got what I want and I'm gonna get it. gonna dodge your no cues".

Exactly, and it makes me question if this is how these guys are IRL.

Maybe this is normalized behavior already.

There are numerous points in her story where I would have gone, "she's not buying what you're selling tonight" to myself. Like, really, if she's putting physical distance between herself and my advances, that's a signal even a six year old can interpret: "back off." The six year old might chalk it up to cooties though.

Exactly, even the 18 year-old horny version of myself would have read that as 'chill'.

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They can be. I haven't had a scenario this bad, but I have had multiple encounters with multiple men (on different occasions, you pervs!) who didn't want to believe me when I said I didn't want to give them head. One guy I wasn't even sexually active with. He just asked me over and over and over and over again one day while we were hanging out with some mutual friends. Like, dude, wtf?

I had similar feelings reading. This [article] (http://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler) really helps articulate them imo.

He's going for the 2005 pick up artist 9 no's and a yes mean a yes school of thought. What an idiot he is

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I don’t know about mixed signals, Looks like she said no multiple times, expressed her discomfort and he kept pushing for it

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Even if she didn't overtly say "no," she seems clearly uncomfortable with the whole thing, so even if she didn't say no, my question is: what kind of man presses to continue having sex with someone who's visibly uncomfortable? Even if a woman goes through with sex, doesn't a normal man feel sort of disgusting writhing his body on a woman and sticking his fingers down her throat when she's clearly not interested? Who on earth considers that sexy?

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if you were with your partner and they went down on you, you would take that as a sign to press on with the sexual encounter right?

yes, but...

She tells him that she doesn't want to feel 'forced' into doing anything so they go and sit on the couch.

ok

He gestures to his crotch and she voluntarily goes down on him.

I sure as fuck wouldn't do this next

After he agreed to just hang out and watch TV fully clothed, he then tried to undo her pants again. After she'd fully explained to him that she didn't want to have sex. Who does that?

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“I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,” she said.

LOL this is such a huge red flag already.

When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Exactly, she already said she was uncomfortable, and this was the next move? Come on.

Soon, he pulled her back up onto the couch. She would tell her friend via text later that night, “He [made out] with me again and says, ‘Doesn’t look like you hate me.’”

Looks like Aziz was aware of things.

And then later when he agreed to just hang out and watch TV while clothed, he then proceeded to kiss her again an d try to undo her pants. Again. After she said she wasn't ready to do this (have sex).

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Again, you're saying she said 'no' to him which she never does during the entire encounter.

I guess you didn't even read all of the article you linked to.

“After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this.

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And then she sucked his dick. That's not a mixed signal?

But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”

It's not a mixed signal at all. It's a "you're not letting me leave until you've raped me in the mouth" signal.

But does she ever flat out say to him "I don't want to do this, I want to leave"? That's the issue I'm having with this. It doesn't sound to me like he ever physically forces her into doing anything.

Based on her own account she does not. This article is intentionally misleading as her claim that she said no was “Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,” as posted in Babe.

She thinks that's sufficiently clear, but still willingly gave the guy a blowjob. I mean, she could have said at any point she didn't want to have sex, and / or told him she wanted to leave, but she didn't. Instead she just mumbled something.

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Not necessarily. This is not the first account of sexual assault you've read, right? It happens. Hell, it can happen multiple times.

Also, it helps if you don't think of it as one event, it's 100 different actions. A healthy sexual encounter would have enthusiastic consent on all 100 actions.

Thanks. this is a good way to think about it

I just realized I got this idea from Japanese dating sims, where the goal is to maximize the love meter through picking the right actions.

Hahaha

I've been coerced into performing a sexual act on someone and I complied because I rightfully assessed that if I tried to push back further he would escalate to more physical violence and I wanted to get out as soon as possible. A forced handjob seemed like a better alternative to a full blown rape.

Fuck this "mixed signals" bullshit. Maybe we should not try to have sex with people until it's a clear "yes" signal. It's fucking amazing. Men can receive 1 desired response for every x number of undesired responses and still take that as an overall desired response. Then when something goes wrong, it's mixed messages.

You're a guy, drinking with a male friend. You're straight, he's not. You get curious about what it would be like to blow a dude. You've been drinking, but it seems like a good idea. Your friend is down with it. You try sucking his dick. It's not that fun. Your friend is into it, though, and after you start to feel bored and awkward and pull away, he pushes your head back down. You say "nah, man, I'm done", but your friend says "come on, I'm almost there". You say "dude, no", but he keeps a hold on your head. You like your friend, he's a good guy. You don't want to make things weirder than they already are by freaking out. You keep going until he's almost finished, and then he says he wants to have sex with you. You say no way. He tries to suck you off, you push him away. He tries again, you don't know what to do, this is weird, so you let him. He goes to get a condom and you realize this is your chance to stop this once and for all. You tell him you have to go home. You leave.

Were you violated?

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Still sounds pretty bad though

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But a smaller part of it is teaching women to be more vocal in their wishes. Physically giving off clues of uninterest and saying "I want to take it slow" are not the same as saying a simple "no".

You know what, though? She did tell him no, and that she wasn't ready to have sex with him. And he offered to just hang out on the couch while clothed and watch TV. And then he proceeded to shove his fingers in her mouth again and tried to undo her pants.

This is a guy who refused to take no for an answer. He also sent mixed signals that he WAS taking no for answer.

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I read the whole thing. It's pretty disgusting. I wasn't prepared for how graphic it was.

You know this is her part of the story right? There is a reason if journalists don't convict people

Ansari also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away.”

“I wasn’t really even thinking of that, I didn’t want to be engaged in that with him. But he kept asking, so I said, ‘Next time.’ And he goes, ‘Oh, you mean second date?’ and I go, ‘Oh, yeah, sure,’ and he goes, ‘Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?’” He then poured her a glass and handed it to her. She excused herself to the bathroom soon after

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Soon, he pulled her back up onto the couch. She would tell her friend via text later that night, “He [made out] with me again and says, ‘Doesn’t look like you hate me.’”

Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse.

“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

I don't know man, the second glass of wine part it looks (just looks, didn't say it was) like a "getting her drunk" move.

I think the main problem between us is when she says that she performed orally.

To some people, not you, as I've seen, that means 100% consent.

To me, she says it was pressured, it kinda means that she wasn't into it.

And to others that means "mixed signals".

Now, Aziz clearly thought "mixed signals", but still, him not asking is pretty much his fault.

6 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

Maybe it would be forgivable if Ansari was a 15 year old boy on his first date, but no, he's a 30-something year-old grown-ass man. He's a very intelligent stand-up comedian, and dissecting human interaction is pretty much his job. Its clear from the material in his standup and his tv show that he is capable of being a sensitive empathic person- when he feels like it.

What it boils down to is he's just another dude who thinks getting his rocks off is more important than not-being a rapist. His mind was probably clouded by the heat of the moment, perhaps he was drunk, but if being drunk and horny turns you into a rapist then it's your responsibility to not get drunk around other people anymore.

The article you quoted doesn't paint Ansari in any better light then the link in the OP.

There's nothing sensationalist going on.

Sort of seems like classic r/niceguys behaviour, where you have a guy who's insecure about that stuff and thinks that girls are only attracted to douchebags, so they make an attempt at being forceful but it just completely backfires on them. That's just my interpretation though.

Fuck, I've been that guy and I still cringe about it years later in exactly these terms. I bet it was clear as day, too. Thankfully, I've committed no sexual assault that I'm aware of. So I've got that going for me, which is nice.

2018 just started.

27 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

she gives him mixed signals throughout the night

She gives him very clear signals using both body language and actual words that she wasn't interested in fucking him that night.

Edit:

Aziz: "Where do you want me to fuck you?"

Her: "Next time."

Pretty clear that she didn't want to have sex that night.

Also, when he relented and they watch some TV with their clothes on, he decided ONE LAST TIME to get into her pants:

“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they’d already “chilled” on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld. She’d never seen it before. She said that’s when the reality of what was going on sank in. “It really hit me that I was violated. I felt really emotional all at once when we sat down there. That that whole experience was actually horrible.”

While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants. She turned away. She remembers “feeling in a different mindset at that point.”

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20 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

I've read the full version, it still sounds like abhorrent and despicable behaviour.

My take on it is that guys try to half ass bdsm without realizing the importance of consent.

The issue is the conveying of consent. I'm not defending him but there's a strong possibility that he thought he got consent after she played hard to get. That playing hard to get thing has been programmed into men for decades.

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It's worth the read but I fear is too late, the click bait headlines and cherry picking will mean people have already made up their minds.

I would maybe agree with you up until the first time she voices her concerns and he's like "okay, let's just chill on the couch". From then on, the fact that he's still super aggressively going for it is not okay.

Utopia4 points·3 months ago

Yeah...no.

“I wasn’t really even thinking of that, I didn’t want to be engaged in that with him. But he kept asking, so I said, ‘Next time.’ And he goes, ‘Oh, you mean second date?’ and I go, ‘Oh, yeah, sure,’ and he goes, ‘Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?’” He then poured her a glass and handed it to her. She excused herself to the bathroom soon after.

She told babe that at first, she was happy with how he reacted. “He said, ‘Oh, of course, it’s only fun if we’re both having fun.’ The response was technically very sweet and acknowledging the fact that I was very uncomfortable. Verbally, in that moment, he acknowledged that I needed to take it slow. Then he said, ‘Let’s just chill over here on the couch.’”

This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter — her remark about not wanting to feel “forced” had added a verbal component to the clues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

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Man society really needs to figure this shit out because obviously way too many people think being persistent and forceful in trying to initiate sex is just okay when it really isn’t. Specifically maybe stop with trying to put someone’s hands on your crotch after maybe the second try fails? No? Just keep doing it? Well then here we are now hope it was worth it.

On the other hand I've taken what seemed like blatant "not tonight" or "she isn't into it" type cues and kept things pretty platonic or at least PG only to get a text the next day along the lines of "I thought you were into me, etc." Not absolving Ansari, just because he clearly went above and beyond when it comes to being overly persistent but there's a sort of cyclical behavior when it comes to sex and hookup culture where the girl has to play hard to get and the guy has to be persistent.

Every situation is different obviously and like I said, this account seems far more blatant than anything I've experienced but it's just a weird ass dynamic that seems to be perpetuated by both sides. I definitely agree with the "stop with trying to put someone's hand on your crotch" thing you mentioned, except I'd honestly stop after the first try unless there was a dramatic shift in mood.

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129 points·3 months ago

Aziz was pushy in the situation but this isn't anywhere close to sexual assault. He seems to have misread the situation but I don't understand why this woman felt the need to make this public. These things happen - people get stuck in shitty situations and regret it - but this isn't anything she couldn't have avoided by walking away. There was no power dynamic involved unlike what happened with Louis and Weinstein. If she thought they were moving too fast, she could've walked away or explicitly said no. This puts the blame on both of them. This isn't even close to headline-worthy. People seem to be piggybacking off of the whole "Time's Up" and "Me Too" movements without any basis for their claims. This discredits actual victims of horrendous crimes and abuse.

It would be super fucked up if he loses his job over this. I don't see why anyone would publicize something like this.

Yeah, but she did say that she didn't want to engage in sexual intercourse.

20 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

And she didn't. Except for the oral sex. Which she did willingly. But kinda not. But didn't say no. But he should have understood where her head was at any given moment

If none of the non-verbal cues are enough for you, then I invite you to reread this part:

“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they’d already “chilled” on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld. She’d never seen it before. She said that’s when the reality of what was going on sank in. “It really hit me that I was violated. I felt really emotional all at once when we sat down there. That that whole experience was actually horrible.”

While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants.

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how about instead of spinning this we just all say stop coercing sex out of unsure or unwilling women and just leave it at that.

You'd think that this should be a universally acceptable sentiment, but apparently not.

Something, something blue balls?

Apparently men want to get laid matters more than how the woman feels about it.

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I agree. And stop blowing people as a way of “saying no”. Lol

is it that hard to realize one predates the other?

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While I understand your sentiment, the "without any basis for the claims" is a bit much for this situation.

I'm not sure what to believe from this story, but "without any basis" appears to be incongruous with either possible interpretation. Either she sent mixed signals or he was too forceful but either way, there's at least some basis.

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Disappointing news. You would think he knew better based on his master of none series, lot of messages about being respectful to women. Not what I expected to be reading about him. I wonder if more will come forward or this was just a total miscommunication.

You would think he knew better based on his master of none series, lot of messages about being respectful to women

I guess he's good at acting?

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Scrubs42 points·3 months ago

rip master of none s3

I'm not ready to say that yet. Yea, this doesn't look good, but so far we have one accusation from an anonymous source. To be fair, others seem to corroborate it, and the texts seem legit, though I don't know how credible babe.com is.

But I gotta hear his response to this. And if there are other accusations. This might not really affect his career at all.

You take that back! I’m not having it!

"Truthfully, he said, he really needs more stuff to happen to him before he can write another season: “I need to live my life a little bit, maybe get in a serious relationship, have a kid, something, and then maybe figure it out.”"

It already seemed like it would be a few years until season 3 and that he was wanting to move past the dating world anyway. If he responds to this with the proper awareness and a real desire to fix things, he can move past this.

I don't want to downplay what he did - considering he literally authored "Modern Romance," I think he needs to be very honest in his response and even then I'd be skeptical. But I think his reflective, trying-to-figure-things-out persona actually puts him in an interesting place as a voice in this conversation. He needs to listen to whatever people have to say and fix things with them and himself accordingly, but he could also open a dialogue that a lot of guys clearly need to hear.

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Shit, a lot of people defending Aziz. I get it, he's a great comedian, his TV work is fantastic.

Guy's also a horny dickhead who can't listen to basic instructions from a woman who doesn't want to fuck him.

Why would you defend that? If you're defending Aziz, and you're not someone who continues to pressure girls into doing shit with you after they tell you not to, then what are you doing?

Complain about women insinuating all men are rapists all you like, but don't fucking jump in line to defend the ones who clearly overstepped the mark.

Guy's also a horny dickhead who can't listen to basic instructions from a woman who doesn't want to fuck him.

Why would you defend that?

I don't care much about him, his show was okay but otherwise I am not the biggest fan. However, why do you assume it is all true? Why are you attacking him even though you certainly weren't there? This is why this whole movement is a witch hunt.

Because accusation = convicted apparently

I'm giving credit to someone who came forward with a fairly harrowing story. Personally, I don't think women enjoy making up stories about rape and sexual assault just to get shit talked about them on Reddit and Facebook and news website comment sections.

I also think it's pretty bullshit that when Terry Crews says he got groped, Reddit jumps to his defence and screams "IT FUCKING HAPPENS TO MEN TOO!" but when a woman does, it's a witch hunt.

Redditors need to fucking learn the lesson that you can talk about issues facing men in the same space as those facing women, without erasing the experiences of one group.

I also think it's pretty bullshit that when Terry Crews says he got groped, Reddit jumps to his defence and screams "IT FUCKING HAPPENS TO MEN TOO!" but when a woman does, it's a witch hunt.

There's another thread on reddit about this issue, and I shit you not, some guy posted, "How's Terry Crews doing?"

You are accepting her story as 100% true without even a statement from Ansari. What if it turns out he has proof that it isn't true? You should wait to hear his side before coming to a conclusion one way or the other.

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People seem to want to make it a gendered issue, which ultimately creates a adversarial bias. Like you have to take a side based on the person's gender.

On one hand, it's largely men who perpetuate sexual assault. On the other, it's still not a majority of men and as a result a lot of us are terrified of being grouped in with them. This results in a lot of stupid, reactionary posts and adversarial behavior like you said.

Let's just say that as a guy I am very grateful I am not on the dating market any more.

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There's a lot of nuance to these situations. We should absolutely support everyone who comes out about this stuff, but the "witch hunt" part is the immediate ostracizing and demonization that occurs without a shred of proof. You can help victims without also using the mob justice we're seeing.

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Why would you defend that?

A lot of reddit seems to put themselves into the shoes of the accused, and “themselves” are guys who literally can’t envision what an enthusiastic, consensual sexual encounter looks like

More and more it's looking like an r/incels comment section which is really fucked up

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You’re completely right. If the account this woman gave if accurate he definitely doesn’t deserve defending. I know for me it’s hard to rationalise my personal emotions for him as an artist into what this means for Aziz the person. I hope he can reflect on this behaviour and be better, I hope everyone can be better than this.

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Halt and Catch Fire41 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

This is one of those incidences which don't require public vilification but a private talk between 2 people to help the other person change their sexual behavior. From what I've seen over the past year pitchforks do not discriminate everything is treated as sexual assault, I hope it works out for Aziz.

She says she was upset that Aziz was supporting the recent hashtag movements around assault and that's what made her speak up... I mean is this serious? Are you really comparing what some of the scum like Weinstein did to Aziz trying to hook up with you after you willfully went up to his apartment after a consensual date?

a private talk between 2 people

Yeah, maybe in a hotel room, late at night?

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3 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

It’s best to see a mixed signal as a no. Just to be safe. And pressuring someone into sex is always wrong, even if it might not always be illegal.

But I worry that these rightful accusations, that have surfaced recently will have a negative impact on women in the entertainment industry.

Because it is so “easy” to do, the men in charge will try to shield themselves from it. I’m not saying it’s wrong that it’s getting out, I’m saying we need to get the law involved to protect the jobs of women working in the entertainment industry.

I fear many jobs, especially behind the camera will be given to men. And women who work in front of the camera will be under surveillance by lawyers all the time they are working.

We can’t forget that the people in power are still the same who didn’t care about women before.

These dudes with that much money should just hire a top of the line escort.

This may very well be true and I am fully ready to accept that Aziz badly overstepped the mark here. But this read very close to someone regretting a sexual encounter rather than flat out sexual assault. Either way we as a society need to really ensure that everyone knows when someone is consenting, and that both parties feel comfortable to stop even after events begin. This can begin with comprehensive sex education for young teens and removing a lot of the taboo that surrounds sex.

9 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

Regret implies she was OK with it at the times. What the fuck about her account gives you the impression she was?

The fact that she consented to some acts but not others shows confusion on her part so yeah, I'm not going to take any blame off of Ansari but she was also sending him mixed signals. She was okay with it at times, or else she would've left before the situation escalated.

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But this read very close to someone regretting a sexual encounter rather than flat out sexual assault.

She made it clear that she wasn’t okay with what was going on multiple times during the night.

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28 points·3 months ago·edited 24 days ago

Lost a role model rip. Hopefully this doesn't perpetuate the stereotype or erase any of the work aziz has done to combat those stereotypes, but it probably will...

it sucks to lose a role model, but the only people who will read this as indicative of all Indians are those with opinions one shouldn’t value anyway.

Only to painfully ignorant people would this reinforce that stereotype. His actions are his own, not his ethnicity.

:( I'm so sorry. I totally empathize too - Aziz meant so much to Asian Americans in general, and this is so disappointing to me too.

My friend, who's a Pakistani Indian was very unhappy to hear about this as well.

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She makes him sound like a weird dude

Most comedians are weird dudes. The rest are weird chicks.

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51 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

Did she say no? Did she leave? Women gotta help themselves. He clearly wasnt violent or anything, he shouldnt be publicly ruined for this.

Edit - Im not arguing with 18 different people. This is what I believe, upvote downvote move on, I aint getting balls deep in this shit on a Sunday.

Did she say no?

Yes.

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She said she didn't want to fuck, and she tried to leave but he physically prevented her from leaving.

But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”

Wait, where does he physically prevent her? It's not like she tried to leave his apartment and he didn't let her open the door.

If she moved to a different area of the apartment and he followed her, that's one thing. Out of line but come on, physically preventing her from leaving?

Something you have to consider is fear in the moment. Some people don’t think straight when they’re scared and if she’s frightened because he’s not letting her out of his sight then what’s gonna happen if she tries to leave?

It’s fear

She never said she was afraid at any point, she said she was uncomfortable. There is a difference.

Her actions fall in line with someone who is scared

I guess I would put more stock in that if that was how she described the encounter, but she never described it that way in her own account. You are interpreting her actions when you don't even know exactly went down; you only know her account of what happened, and even in her own account she doesn't say she was scared.

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Women gotta help themselves. He clearly wasnt violent or anything, he shouldnt be publicly ruined for this.

As another user pointed out, when some people are being attacked or molested they freeze up. For god's sake, some people freeze when they have to do public speaking; it's entirely reasonable that a woman can't articulate herself clearly when a guy is repeatedly ramming his fingers down her throat.

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People often experience tonic immobility during sexual assault. We talk about fight and flight but people often freeze during high stress moments. I don’t like this line of questioning. It puts the onus on people to prevent their own assault rather than focusing on teaching informed consent. I would rather time be dedicated to preventative measures than cause further trauma for people coping with the aftermath of sexual violence.

I didn't really understand this "freezing" or "just taking it" until it happened to me. At a certain point you feel so scared, hopeless and overpowered you start to try to mitigate damage.

For me, I could only think stop squirming around it will only excite him more. This is happening, just accept it and get Plan B in the morning.

I never thought I would be in that position until I was already there. The problem is you can say no in a million different ways, show you're very much scared and you don't want to. But if the other person doesn't care or chooses not to accept no, it becomes meaningless.

This wasn't tonic immobility. This is tonic immobility https://i.imgur.com/ZwntYWa.gif This lady went to the bathroom, splashed water on her face, came back, and gave him head. She may have been uncomfortable, but the onus is still on her to be explicit when expressing her feelings rather than assuming someone will pick up on nonverbal cues, and statements beginning with um, maybe, or I dunno.

I would argue that the onus is on the pursuer for getting explicit permission for sexual activity.

Also, she WAS explicit. She even got to the point where she said no, told him she didn't want to have sex, and he agreed they'd just watch some TV on the couch with clothes on. And then he tried undoing her pants again!!!

She may have been uncomfortable, but the onus is still on her to be explicit

Nahh, the onus is on the initiator that there is enthusiastic consent for the particular action.

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This!

She said she game of behavioural signals, dafuq is that, you cant come with this me too stuff if you sat and blew him and at no point actually asked him to stop, she only said slow down a sec and chill.

You think if this was just the local walmart chashier there would be a big deal about it??

She said she game of behavioural signals, dafuq is that

I think this is pretty revealing of you.

you cant come with this me too stuff if you sat and blew him and at no point actually asked him to stop, she only said slow down a sec and chill.

She made it clear she wasn’t ok with what was going on multiple times. It’s the textbook definition of coercion.

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He clearly wasnt violent or anything

As opposed to everyone else on the brochette of comedians and actors recently disgraced for similar behavior?

She did say no - and she also never said yes. She did leave in the end after trying multiple times to physically and verbally say no. Men gotta help themselves, she clearly wasn't physically aroused or anything. She knew if she went public she'd be ruined for this so she gave a trusted feminist news outlet her personal information, confirmed chat logs, and multiple sources confirming her story.

I think most people would agree that he was being douchey, and celebrities have gotten their careers hurt or ruined (or people think they should be ruined) for doing douchey things - Kanye, Robin Thicke, Natalia Kills.

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Man, these cool progressive comedians really need to get their shit sorted out.

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Comment deleted3 months ago(2 children)

For what it's worth, I think the last link you mentioned was talking about these sort of situations in general not Aziz Ansari specifically.

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Wow, who would've thought such a vocal proponent of respecting women would turn out to be a rapey creep? Again.

I hope kalpenn the creep is the next pretentious perv to be ousted.

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Looks like he tried to be the master of someone

It’s a pattern of self described male feminists who are getting unmasked as people who harm women

Harvey Weinstein was doing a documentary about rape victims or something too, pretty good cover. Almost like men pretend to be feminists to shield themselves from being outed as creepy perverts and/or rapists

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Clearly I misread things in the moment.

"Well, she squirms when I'm near, and also she said that she wasn't comfortable, that must mean that she's into it."

She also went on a date, went back to his place, kissed him, gave him a handjob, gave him a blowjob (twice), and then stuck around to continue with the heavy petting. I think this can fairly be described as mixed signals.

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Him and Chef Jeff really do do everything together. Honestly, though this is heartbreaking, I'm a big fan of Aziz so hearing about this really puts a bad taste in my mouth. I'm shocked because of how a lot of Master of None is (being openly against all this) but in cases like these you have to trust her, truly heartbreaking.

This makes me wonder if he had a motive for writing that Chef Jeff storyline.

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Man this looks really bad , I am a huge Aziz fan but this detailed account and text message make him look really bad.This will kind of send his career down the drain , not that he doesn’t deserve that for what he did.I hope he take a long break get his shit together.

Surprise surprise another male feminist outed as an abuser.

What are "clear non-verbal cues" that she was "uncomfortable"? Sometimes, cues are not as clear as we think. I've missed out on a couple of hookups because I didn't realize I was being sent, what some would consider, obvious signals.

What are "clear non-verbal cues" that she was "uncomfortable"?

This is the full story. If half of what she says happened actually did happen, this is pretty shitty of him.

I thought the article of OP's post was bad enough but this is just something else. What the hell, Aziz?

She apparently confronted him about it via text and he said in response, “I’m so sad to hear this, Clearly, I misread things in the moment and I’m truly sorry.” So yeah, that makes it pretty clear that SOMETHING happened that night. This was a text exchange the next day, too, so it's not like she felt weird weeks later. This was immediate.

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Yeah, but then she also says it.

And also, could be squirming, keeping away, not touching, crossing arms, staying in one place, trying to get smaller.

Like also, if you're not sure, ask.

I mean come on.

"Where do you want me to fuck you?"

"Next time."

Pretty clear that she didn't want to have sex that night.

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I’m getting sick and tired of these accusations. Tell it to the police not the nearest newspaper.

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This whole article is gross and Aziz looks really, really bad.

Anyone who says it was “confusing” or that she was giving off “mixed signals” didn’t read it. She was clearly uncomfortable, expressed that multiple times, and was still pressured and coerced.

This is awful.

4 points·3 months ago·edited 3 months ago

Edited because this post will probably blow up in the morning and I'm not too keen on responding to 15 different arguments, I also did not have the full story at the time of making it, as the article leaves a lot out

Or saying no?

She did say no. She also told him, "Next time" when he asked her where she wanted him to fuck her. Pretty clear she didn't necessarily want to be doing anything with him at that point.

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[It’s a recognized and fairly common response to sexual assault.] (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-assault-may-trigger-involuntary-paralysis)

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This girl is just trying to exploit a celeb

How would her point of view play out in a court of law?

Lawyer - so you went to his apartment and sat you in the counter and began making out.

Girl - yes

L- you started to kiss and he mentioned getting a condom and you said you did not want sex? But he forced you to have sex.

G- yes that is correct about the counter but he did not force me to have sex. He said ok to the no sex and went down on me instead.

L- so he started to go down on you and you moved away?

G- no I let him do that.

L - oh... but when he was finished you made it clear you were not interested?

G- not exactly. I performed oral sex on him.... but mind you in my mind I was not really into it.

L- so he knew you weren’t into it?

G- well no I did not say I wast but in my mind I was thinking I did not want to do it.

L- ok so you finish blowing him and you try to leave and he won’t let you?

G - no I stayed. We hung out for a bit and he made some more advances at me that I rejected.

L- so he forced himself onto you?

G- no he just stopped making the advance for a bit. Then I went to the bathroom to clear my mind and came back into the room and blew him.

L- wait what? You sucked his dick again? I thought you weren’t Into him?

G- well I wasn’t but he asked a few times and you know that was enough for me to blow him again

L- ok but then you left out of fear?

G - no I hung out longer and we went to his bedroom.

L- he forced you into the bedroom, now we are getting somewhere. This is where he forced you to have sex?

G- no did not force me into the bedroom. no he made some advances and rubbed against me. I told him no and he stopped. Then I called a cab and left.

L- let’s recap. He made sexual advances. Sometimes you said not interested and he stopped. To then make separate advances that you willingly responded with by putting his penis in your mouth. He never physically forced you to do anything. Never made a threat. Never stopped you from leaving.

G- that’s correct.

Now lawyer going after Aziz

L- tell me what happened that night.

Aziz - me and the girl went out on a date. Went back to my place. We fooled around a bit. She said she did not want to screw but then blew me. Said she was not interested but then blew me again. Then went to my bedroom. I thought I was going to get laid but she said she was not wanting to screw so she left. I mean hell I got 2 blow jobs already so I was good to go.

Now what does the jury decide?

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-7 points·3 months ago(5 children)

“22 year old Brooklyn based photographer” who flirts by talking about 80s film based cameras. Many, not all, #metoo stories sound more like nerdy, socially unadjusted women perceiving normal social behaviors and inquiries as egregious abuse.

Such a bizarre projection, but then again par the course for a r/seduction poster.

Damn you got me what ever will I do now

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They are already perplexed already.

These posts are going to go on forever aren’t they

As a half Indian man in comedy, this is great news for me.

I think both are at fault here. Dude is a creep on dates and can’t fucking take a hint cus he’s a horny creep. Does that make him a bar person? Kind of. But we all have bad qualities. She could’ve left at any point but I understand she was fearful and was pushed.

I just didn’t like how she complained about him rushing her during wine time or picking wine for her. Like come on, you’re worried about the wine or are you worried about him sexually assaulting you?

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