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[–]InvestInDada 69 points70 points  (14 children)

Goddamn, 2018!

[–]zh1K476tt9pq 22 points23 points  (10 children)

It's okay. In about a week Trump will get impeached and replaced by Bernie Sanders. Leah Remini will single handedly bring down every religion on this planet except for the Catholic church because she ends up marrying the Pope. They drive off into the sunset in Tesla, because 2018 is the year when Elon Musk decided that everyone should get a free Tesla.

[–]halfmystified 57 points58 points  (6 children)

In your perfect world fantasy, the catholic church becomes MORE dominant?

[–]-_-_-_-otalp-_-_-_- 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Yeah that part was just bizarre

[–]PhilyMick67 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Somebody enjoyed catholic school more than I did

[–]Gwinbar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you not aware that we like Catholics here? You should brush up on your reddit hivemind studies.

[–]this_guy_is_notreal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also gates solves cancer and malaria. We all get UBI. Aliens.

[–]fullicat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I..don't know enough about 2018 yet to dispute this.

[–]ZachPowers 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The Roast of James Franco aired in 2013.

It contains all the context necessary to notice that Aziz Ansari has a weak-ass spirit.

Get your 20XX incantations outta here, and go feel a real thing about a real-ass thing. This wasn't Tom Hanks, it was Asiz An-fuckin-sari.

[–]trivela 0 points1 point  (0 children)

aziz kills on that roast what are you talking about

[–]AllowableBastille 406 points407 points  (259 children)

Please read the actual article from the womans perspective. These other news publications are doing their usual thing of grabbing specific parts of what she said to make it appear that Aziz is an absolute monster.

If you read her entire description of the night, it comes of as very confusing as she gives him mixed signals throughout the night. Before you down vote me, go read the actual story and not just the cliff notes which this site has provided.

[–]XLauncher 128 points129 points  (50 children)

I read the whole thing. He still comes out looking pretty bad. By the time they got to the couch to watch Seinfeld, it should have been obvious to any one with a sliver of social intelligence that this woman was not comfortable. Mixed signals? Perhaps, but when confronted with mixed signals, the correct thing to confirm that everyone is on the same page, not undo someone's pants.

On a sidenote, is fingers in the mouth a thing that people seriously do? I thought that was just a porno invention. Hell if I'm letting anyone stick their fingers in my mouth, them things is filthy.

[–]Elmidra 37 points38 points  (9 children)

Hell if I'm letting anyone stick their fingers in my mouth, them things is filthy.

I've got bad news for you. Even if I just vigoriously fingered a toilet brush, your mouth is most likely more filthy than my fingers.

Mouths are nasty places.

[–]ghotier 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Somehow I don’t believe you would put a toilet brush in your mouth.

[–]RiseoftheTrumpwaffen 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I googled it

People have that fetish

[–]BrownBear456 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well um maybe its just me but when my girl starts sucking on my fingers the countdown drops from a minute to a second before I'm gonna blast off

[–]DreamGrl8 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Yes, people do indeed do fingers in the mouth.. It can be a huge turn on for people. Although, it's a little forced and tacky on the first date.

This date was awkward and Asis came off as an over-confident entitled celebrity jerk-off, but it was very far from sexual assault.

It is clear from the response to these allegations that Reddit users are generally very sexually vanilla and void of numerous sexual encounters. Anyone who has had to go through the pains of dating for numerous years, would realise that mixed signals and missed opportunities come along with it.

It's incredibly normal for females to resist the initial advancements of men in early stages of dating. Often times, the men "push" through the initial resistance and end up sleeping with the women. And often times, this leads to long lasting relationships.

However, other times, men give in to women's initial resistance due to numerous factors including: naivety, a delusional sense of chivalry, thinking that "being nice" will eventually get them laid (it doesn't), or most commonly: lack of experience and lack of confidence. And that is sad because it probably results in many relationships that could-have-been but never-were. And it's confusing and frustrating, because the reality is that many females are attracted to men who have the confidence to take the initiative and persuade the couple into sex. Except, sometimes the women truly don't want sexual advancement, and they can say No, but it's sad that they may fear saying No because most men are physically dominant and the women may not want to escalate the situation.

It's a tough situation with no easy answer. But I know that Asis doesn't deserve to have his personal details released and career potentially ruined over an awkward date (while the women remains anonymous).

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 2 points3 points  (1 child)

thinking that "being nice" will eventually get them laid (it doesn't),

Okay dude, there are young guys here who'll read this and assume you're correct.

You're not correct. Actual nice guys do in fact get laid. It's the "nice guys" that don't. The thing is you have to actually BE nice.

[–]dev1359 13 points14 points  (3 children)

This shit is getting ridiculous. We need some sort of due process in a court of law at this point, because to have the power to ruin someone's life in the court of public opinion by just posting a story about them on the Internet, no matter how long and detailed or short and vague, is seriously scary to me.

In this case it sounds like they were both idiots here. Aziz comes off as a creep but that's it, this sounds like nothing more than sexual harassment and I don't think someone should be crucified for that unless we start hearing different accounts of the same sort of behavior from different women. At no point does any of this sound like sexual assault, he never physically forces her into anything and she never says no to any of it. She had the right to say no and leave at any point in time, and instead she sucks his dick? Come on. And this isn't like the Franco allegation where he physically forced her head toward his dick.

He made a mistake and I expect him to come out soon and own up to it (I imagine he's probably talking to his lawyer right now about how to handle this), but after it's all said and done I'm going to be really sad if his career ends up ruined because of one sole allegation in the court of public opinion.

[–]maaloc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

and was it her mouth? i think i'm confused now...

[–]twistedlimb 1 point2 points  (4 children)

he performed oral sex on her, then she performed oral sex on him...maybe not super romantic, but at least up until that point seemed consensual?

[–]Choco316 1 point2 points  (3 children)

What condemns him really is him reporting agreeeing to back it up and just chill then seemingly immediately trying again. She clearly liked him and thought he’d be like he is on tv and then he kept going

The shit with the mirror for me was where it got really fucked up, like that’s straight up insane

Also imo in relation to their body of work this is more damning than what Louis CK did

[–]Choco316 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t know if it’s be sexual assault or not because it’s murky... but it was really fucking inappropriate and Aziz is going to look like asshole more so because he’s been claiming to be a modern man for the past 7 years

[–][deleted] 100 points101 points  (34 children)

If you read her entire description of the night, it comes of as very confusing as she gives him mixed signals throughout the night.

No she doesn't...he puts her hand on his junk and she rejects it the advance...I learned that means no in HS, maybe Aziz needs a lesson in basic "she isn't into it".

it comes of as very confusing as she gives him mixed signals throughout the night.

When you put a girls hand on your dick and she pulls away, that's the ultimate no signal, you don't need any other signal than that regardless of what went on during the rest of the night.

[–]ehsteve23 125 points126 points  (82 children)

I don’t know about mixed signals, Looks like she said no multiple times, expressed her discomfort and he kept pushing for it

[–]nmking 29 points30 points  (53 children)

And then she sucked his dick. That's not a mixed signal?

[–]RefreshNinja 88 points89 points  (22 children)

But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”

It's not a mixed signal at all. It's a "you're not letting me leave until you've raped me in the mouth" signal.

[–]dev1359 10 points11 points  (8 children)

But does she ever flat out say to him "I don't want to do this, I want to leave"? That's the issue I'm having with this. It doesn't sound to me like he ever physically forces her into doing anything.

[–]L0to 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Based on her own account she does not. This article is intentionally misleading as her claim that she said no was “Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,” as posted in Babe.

She thinks that's sufficiently clear, but still willingly gave the guy a blowjob. I mean, she could have said at any point she didn't want to have sex, and / or told him she wanted to leave, but she didn't. Instead she just mumbled something.

[–]Kdotpop 12 points13 points  (0 children)

He also kept making mixed signals, acting like they would stop/dial it back, (acting like he understood after she expressed being uncomfortable with the situation), then when she thinks they're gonna talk and watch Seinfeld, he physically starts forcing himself on her again. It was disrespectful behavior on his part, he's twelve years older than her, he should have known better to just give it a rest.

[–]TagaKain 39 points40 points  (2 children)

Not necessarily. This is not the first account of sexual assault you've read, right? It happens. Hell, it can happen multiple times.

Also, it helps if you don't think of it as one event, it's 100 different actions. A healthy sexual encounter would have enthusiastic consent on all 100 actions.

[–]maaloc 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Thanks. this is a good way to think about it

[–]TagaKain 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I just realized I got this idea from Japanese dating sims, where the goal is to maximize the love meter through picking the right actions.

Hahaha

[–]IdontSparkle 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've been coerced into performing a sexual act on someone and I complied because I rightfully assessed that if I tried to push back further he would escalate to more physical violence and I wanted to get out as soon as possible. A forced handjob seemed like a better alternative to a full blown rape.

[–]LeadOn 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Fuck this "mixed signals" bullshit. Maybe we should not try to have sex with people until it's a clear "yes" signal. It's fucking amazing. Men can receive 1 desired response for every x number of undesired responses and still take that as an overall desired response. Then when something goes wrong, it's mixed messages.

[–]violue 4 points5 points  (23 children)

You're a guy, drinking with a male friend. You're straight, he's not. You get curious about what it would be like to blow a dude. You've been drinking, but it seems like a good idea. Your friend is down with it. You try sucking his dick. It's not that fun. Your friend is into it, though, and after you start to feel bored and awkward and pull away, he pushes your head back down. You say "nah, man, I'm done", but your friend says "come on, I'm almost there". You say "dude, no", but he keeps a hold on your head. You like your friend, he's a good guy. You don't want to make things weirder than they already are by freaking out. You keep going until he's almost finished, and then he says he wants to have sex with you. You say no way. He tries to suck you off, you push him away. He tries again, you don't know what to do, this is weird, so you let him. He goes to get a condom and you realize this is your chance to stop this once and for all. You tell him you have to go home. You leave.

Were you violated?

[–]Hoentsch 50 points51 points  (15 children)

Still sounds pretty bad though

[–]wherestherice 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I read the whole thing. It's pretty disgusting. I wasn't prepared for how graphic it was.

[–]123bravo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You know this is her part of the story right? There is a reason if journalists don't convict people

[–]Dogenewnew 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Ansari also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away.”

“I wasn’t really even thinking of that, I didn’t want to be engaged in that with him. But he kept asking, so I said, ‘Next time.’ And he goes, ‘Oh, you mean second date?’ and I go, ‘Oh, yeah, sure,’ and he goes, ‘Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?’” He then poured her a glass and handed it to her. She excused herself to the bathroom soon after

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Soon, he pulled her back up onto the couch. She would tell her friend via text later that night, “He [made out] with me again and says, ‘Doesn’t look like you hate me.’”

Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse.

“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

I don't know man, the second glass of wine part it looks (just looks, didn't say it was) like a "getting her drunk" move.

I think the main problem between us is when she says that she performed orally.

To some people, not you, as I've seen, that means 100% consent.

To me, she says it was pressured, it kinda means that she wasn't into it.

And to others that means "mixed signals".

Now, Aziz clearly thought "mixed signals", but still, him not asking is pretty much his fault.

[–]Kdotpop 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also she is twelve years younger than him, and he's got her alone in his place where she doesn't have her own car to leave. Also he's a wealthy man of celebrity status. Also also, he probably came across to her as a "nice guy"...so I can see how she may have been in a bit of shock/confusion when he was pressuring her to do more than she was comfortable with. I don't think he's "as bad" as the allegations that have come out the past year, but he was clearly disrespectful and should have dialed back his behavior in this situation.

[–]bashar_speaks 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe it would be forgivable if Ansari was a 15 year old boy on his first date, but no, he's a 30-something year-old grown-ass man. He's a very intelligent stand-up comedian, and dissecting human interaction is pretty much his job. Its clear from the material in his standup and his tv show that he is capable of being a sensitive empathic person- when he feels like it.

What it boils down to is he's just another dude who thinks getting his rocks off is more important than not-being a rapist. His mind was probably clouded by the heat of the moment, perhaps he was drunk, but if being drunk and horny turns you into a rapist then it's your responsibility to not get drunk around other people anymore.

[–]Razzler1973 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The article you quoted doesn't paint Ansari in any better light then the link in the OP.

There's nothing sensationalist going on.

[–]crawling_king_snake1 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Sort of seems like classic r/niceguys behaviour, where you have a guy who's insecure about that stuff and thinks that girls are only attracted to douchebags, so they make an attempt at being forceful but it just completely backfires on them. That's just my interpretation though.

[–]menoum_menoum 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Fuck, I've been that guy and I still cringe about it years later in exactly these terms. I bet it was clear as day, too. Thankfully, I've committed no sexual assault that I'm aware of. So I've got that going for me, which is nice.

[–]TSMasochism 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2018 just started.

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 21 points22 points  (32 children)

she gives him mixed signals throughout the night

She gives him very clear signals using both body language and actual words that she wasn't interested in fucking him that night.

Edit:

Aziz: "Where do you want me to fuck you?"

Her: "Next time."

Pretty clear that she didn't want to have sex that night.

Also, when he relented and they watch some TV with their clothes on, he decided ONE LAST TIME to get into her pants:

“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they’d already “chilled” on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld. She’d never seen it before. She said that’s when the reality of what was going on sank in. “It really hit me that I was violated. I felt really emotional all at once when we sat down there. That that whole experience was actually horrible.”

While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants. She turned away. She remembers “feeling in a different mindset at that point.”

[–]64robots 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Then why did her text specifically say she gave only non-verbal cues? Pretty sure this account is an idealized version of how she handled it, not reality.

[–]Rioghail 18 points19 points  (12 children)

I've read the full version, it still sounds like abhorrent and despicable behaviour.

[–]mrt124 2 points3 points  (11 children)

My take on it is that guys try to half ass bdsm without realizing the importance of consent.

[–]Fuck_theKarma 1 point2 points  (10 children)

The issue is the conveying of consent. I'm not defending him but there's a strong possibility that he thought he got consent after she played hard to get. That playing hard to get thing has been programmed into men for decades.

[–]Belfunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's worth the read but I fear is too late, the click bait headlines and cherry picking will mean people have already made up their minds.

[–]narutomanreigns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would maybe agree with you up until the first time she voices her concerns and he's like "okay, let's just chill on the couch". From then on, the fact that he's still super aggressively going for it is not okay.

[–]vrgr23Utopia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah...no.

“I wasn’t really even thinking of that, I didn’t want to be engaged in that with him. But he kept asking, so I said, ‘Next time.’ And he goes, ‘Oh, you mean second date?’ and I go, ‘Oh, yeah, sure,’ and he goes, ‘Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?’” He then poured her a glass and handed it to her. She excused herself to the bathroom soon after.

She told babe that at first, she was happy with how he reacted. “He said, ‘Oh, of course, it’s only fun if we’re both having fun.’ The response was technically very sweet and acknowledging the fact that I was very uncomfortable. Verbally, in that moment, he acknowledged that I needed to take it slow. Then he said, ‘Let’s just chill over here on the couch.’”

This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter — her remark about not wanting to feel “forced” had added a verbal component to the clues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

[–]RiseoftheTrumpwaffen 89 points90 points  (34 children)

Man society really needs to figure this shit out because obviously way too many people think being persistent and forceful in trying to initiate sex is just okay when it really isn’t. Specifically maybe stop with trying to put someone’s hands on your crotch after maybe the second try fails? No? Just keep doing it? Well then here we are now hope it was worth it.

[–]IndieCredentials 10 points11 points  (0 children)

On the other hand I've taken what seemed like blatant "not tonight" or "she isn't into it" type cues and kept things pretty platonic or at least PG only to get a text the next day along the lines of "I thought you were into me, etc." Not absolving Ansari, just because he clearly went above and beyond when it comes to being overly persistent but there's a sort of cyclical behavior when it comes to sex and hookup culture where the girl has to play hard to get and the guy has to be persistent.

Every situation is different obviously and like I said, this account seems far more blatant than anything I've experienced but it's just a weird ass dynamic that seems to be perpetuated by both sides. I definitely agree with the "stop with trying to put someone's hand on your crotch" thing you mentioned, except I'd honestly stop after the first try unless there was a dramatic shift in mood.

[–]arhanv 130 points131 points  (39 children)

Aziz was pushy in the situation but this isn't anywhere close to sexual assault. He seems to have misread the situation but I don't understand why this woman felt the need to make this public. These things happen - people get stuck in shitty situations and regret it - but this isn't anything she couldn't have avoided by walking away. There was no power dynamic involved unlike what happened with Louis and Weinstein. If she thought they were moving too fast, she could've walked away or explicitly said no. This puts the blame on both of them. This isn't even close to headline-worthy. People seem to be piggybacking off of the whole "Time's Up" and "Me Too" movements without any basis for their claims. This discredits actual victims of horrendous crimes and abuse.

It would be super fucked up if he loses his job over this. I don't see why anyone would publicize something like this.

[–]Dogenewnew 28 points29 points  (12 children)

Yeah, but she did say that she didn't want to engage in sexual intercourse.

[–]wallowls 19 points20 points  (11 children)

And she didn't. Except for the oral sex. Which she did willingly. But kinda not. But didn't say no. But he should have understood where her head was at any given moment

[–]LeadOn 5 points6 points  (7 children)

If none of the non-verbal cues are enough for you, then I invite you to reread this part:

“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they’d already “chilled” on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld. She’d never seen it before. She said that’s when the reality of what was going on sank in. “It really hit me that I was violated. I felt really emotional all at once when we sat down there. That that whole experience was actually horrible.”

While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants.

[–]Taco_Briefcase 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why is everyone here forgetting this part

[–]eggn00dles 28 points29 points  (7 children)

how about instead of spinning this we just all say stop coercing sex out of unsure or unwilling women and just leave it at that.

[–]Rioghail 22 points23 points  (2 children)

You'd think that this should be a universally acceptable sentiment, but apparently not.

[–]stovepipedhat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Something, something blue balls?

Apparently men want to get laid matters more than how the woman feels about it.

[–]ironmanix 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I agree. And stop blowing people as a way of “saying no”. Lol

[–]eggn00dles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

is it that hard to realize one predates the other?

[–]Bikinigirl_ 8 points9 points  (2 children)

While I understand your sentiment, the "without any basis for the claims" is a bit much for this situation.

I'm not sure what to believe from this story, but "without any basis" appears to be incongruous with either possible interpretation. Either she sent mixed signals or he was too forceful but either way, there's at least some basis.

[–]Allisayis911 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Disappointing news. You would think he knew better based on his master of none series, lot of messages about being respectful to women. Not what I expected to be reading about him. I wonder if more will come forward or this was just a total miscommunication.

[–]moderate-painting 19 points20 points  (0 children)

You would think he knew better based on his master of none series, lot of messages about being respectful to women

I guess he's good at acting?

[–]capslfcScrubs 38 points39 points  (13 children)

rip master of none s3

[–]letsgoraps 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not ready to say that yet. Yea, this doesn't look good, but so far we have one accusation from an anonymous source. To be fair, others seem to corroborate it, and the texts seem legit, though I don't know how credible babe.com is.

But I gotta hear his response to this. And if there are other accusations. This might not really affect his career at all.

[–]Kyfoo90 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You take that back! I’m not having it!

[–]BartonFink 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Truthfully, he said, he really needs more stuff to happen to him before he can write another season: “I need to live my life a little bit, maybe get in a serious relationship, have a kid, something, and then maybe figure it out.”"

It already seemed like it would be a few years until season 3 and that he was wanting to move past the dating world anyway. If he responds to this with the proper awareness and a real desire to fix things, he can move past this.

I don't want to downplay what he did - considering he literally authored "Modern Romance," I think he needs to be very honest in his response and even then I'd be skeptical. But I think his reflective, trying-to-figure-things-out persona actually puts him in an interesting place as a voice in this conversation. He needs to listen to whatever people have to say and fix things with them and himself accordingly, but he could also open a dialogue that a lot of guys clearly need to hear.

[–]LordHussyPants 96 points97 points  (42 children)

Shit, a lot of people defending Aziz. I get it, he's a great comedian, his TV work is fantastic.

Guy's also a horny dickhead who can't listen to basic instructions from a woman who doesn't want to fuck him.

Why would you defend that? If you're defending Aziz, and you're not someone who continues to pressure girls into doing shit with you after they tell you not to, then what are you doing?

Complain about women insinuating all men are rapists all you like, but don't fucking jump in line to defend the ones who clearly overstepped the mark.

[–]zh1K476tt9pq 37 points38 points  (28 children)

Guy's also a horny dickhead who can't listen to basic instructions from a woman who doesn't want to fuck him.

Why would you defend that?

I don't care much about him, his show was okay but otherwise I am not the biggest fan. However, why do you assume it is all true? Why are you attacking him even though you certainly weren't there? This is why this whole movement is a witch hunt.

[–]123bravo 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Because accusation = convicted apparently

[–]LordHussyPants 2 points3 points  (26 children)

I'm giving credit to someone who came forward with a fairly harrowing story. Personally, I don't think women enjoy making up stories about rape and sexual assault just to get shit talked about them on Reddit and Facebook and news website comment sections.

I also think it's pretty bullshit that when Terry Crews says he got groped, Reddit jumps to his defence and screams "IT FUCKING HAPPENS TO MEN TOO!" but when a woman does, it's a witch hunt.

Redditors need to fucking learn the lesson that you can talk about issues facing men in the same space as those facing women, without erasing the experiences of one group.

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I also think it's pretty bullshit that when Terry Crews says he got groped, Reddit jumps to his defence and screams "IT FUCKING HAPPENS TO MEN TOO!" but when a woman does, it's a witch hunt.

There's another thread on reddit about this issue, and I shit you not, some guy posted, "How's Terry Crews doing?"

[–]MaesterMagoo 12 points13 points  (8 children)

You are accepting her story as 100% true without even a statement from Ansari. What if it turns out he has proof that it isn't true? You should wait to hear his side before coming to a conclusion one way or the other.

[–]Fuck_theKarma 3 points4 points  (3 children)

People seem to want to make it a gendered issue, which ultimately creates a adversarial bias. Like you have to take a side based on the person's gender.

[–]IndieCredentials 5 points6 points  (2 children)

On one hand, it's largely men who perpetuate sexual assault. On the other, it's still not a majority of men and as a result a lot of us are terrified of being grouped in with them. This results in a lot of stupid, reactionary posts and adversarial behavior like you said.

[–]Fuck_theKarma 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Let's just say that as a guy I am very grateful I am not on the dating market any more.

[–]RenegadeBanana 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There's a lot of nuance to these situations. We should absolutely support everyone who comes out about this stuff, but the "witch hunt" part is the immediate ostracizing and demonization that occurs without a shred of proof. You can help victims without also using the mob justice we're seeing.

[–]jerkstorefranchisee 35 points36 points  (5 children)

Why would you defend that?

A lot of reddit seems to put themselves into the shoes of the accused, and “themselves” are guys who literally can’t envision what an enthusiastic, consensual sexual encounter looks like

[–]xvalicx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

More and more it's looking like an r/incels comment section which is really fucked up

[–]SirFloppyDotA 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You’re completely right. If the account this woman gave if accurate he definitely doesn’t deserve defending. I know for me it’s hard to rationalise my personal emotions for him as an artist into what this means for Aziz the person. I hope he can reflect on this behaviour and be better, I hope everyone can be better than this.

[–]18Zuck 38 points39 points  (3 children)

This is one of those incidences which don't require public vilification but a private talk between 2 people to help the other person change their sexual behavior. From what I've seen over the past year pitchforks do not discriminate everything is treated as sexual assault, I hope it works out for Aziz.

[–]onemoreaccount 17 points18 points  (0 children)

She says she was upset that Aziz was supporting the recent hashtag movements around assault and that's what made her speak up... I mean is this serious? Are you really comparing what some of the scum like Weinstein did to Aziz trying to hook up with you after you willfully went up to his apartment after a consensual date?

[–]RefreshNinja 4 points5 points  (0 children)

a private talk between 2 people

Yeah, maybe in a hotel room, late at night?

[–]SuperGeneral 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s best to see a mixed signal as a no. Just to be safe. And pressuring someone into sex is always wrong, even if it might not always be illegal.

But I worry that these rightful accusations, that have surfaced recently will have a negative impact on women in the entertainment industry.

Because it is so “easy” to do, the men in charge will try to shield themselves from it. I’m not saying it’s wrong that it’s getting out, I’m saying we need to get the law involved to protect the jobs of women working in the entertainment industry.

I fear many jobs, especially behind the camera will be given to men. And women who work in front of the camera will be under surveillance by lawyers all the time they are working.

We can’t forget that the people in power are still the same who didn’t care about women before.

[–]sirjackiechiles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

These dudes with that much money should just hire a top of the line escort.

[–]SirFloppyDotA 50 points51 points  (14 children)

This may very well be true and I am fully ready to accept that Aziz badly overstepped the mark here. But this read very close to someone regretting a sexual encounter rather than flat out sexual assault. Either way we as a society need to really ensure that everyone knows when someone is consenting, and that both parties feel comfortable to stop even after events begin. This can begin with comprehensive sex education for young teens and removing a lot of the taboo that surrounds sex.

[–]doegred 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Regret implies she was OK with it at the times. What the fuck about her account gives you the impression she was?

[–]arhanv 6 points7 points  (2 children)

The fact that she consented to some acts but not others shows confusion on her part so yeah, I'm not going to take any blame off of Ansari but she was also sending him mixed signals. She was okay with it at times, or else she would've left before the situation escalated.

[–]guiltyofnothing 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But this read very close to someone regretting a sexual encounter rather than flat out sexual assault.

She made it clear that she wasn’t okay with what was going on multiple times during the night.

[–]Avi-2187 30 points31 points  (8 children)

As an Indian American guy, Aziz was one of my favorite actors for normalizing Indian dudes, from great comedian to Tom Haverford to Master of None. This really taints all the progress he tried to make as portraying Indian Americans (especially guys) as regular people. Now it just reinforces the stereotype that all Indian men are creepy and horny. Hope there's more to this story, cause this is pretty damning

[–]merf78 16 points17 points  (0 children)

it sucks to lose a role model, but the only people who will read this as indicative of all Indians are those with opinions one shouldn’t value anyway.

[–]Kailola 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Only to painfully ignorant people would this reinforce that stereotype. His actions are his own, not his ethnicity.

[–]imthelittleone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

:( I'm so sorry. I totally empathize too - Aziz meant so much to Asian Americans in general, and this is so disappointing to me too.

[–]ironmanmk42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My friend, who's a Pakistani Indian was very unhappy to hear about this as well.

[–]GoesAgainsttheGrain 7 points8 points  (2 children)

She makes him sound like a weird dude

[–]Kittens4Brunch 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Most comedians are weird dudes. The rest are weird chicks.

[–]Anotheraccomg 48 points49 points  (77 children)

Did she say no? Did she leave? Women gotta help themselves. He clearly wasnt violent or anything, he shouldnt be publicly ruined for this.

Edit - Im not arguing with 18 different people. This is what I believe, upvote downvote move on, I aint getting balls deep in this shit on a Sunday.

[–]RefreshNinja 30 points31 points  (36 children)

She said she didn't want to fuck, and she tried to leave but he physically prevented her from leaving.

But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”

[–]Verdeckter 26 points27 points  (10 children)

Wait, where does he physically prevent her? It's not like she tried to leave his apartment and he didn't let her open the door.

If she moved to a different area of the apartment and he followed her, that's one thing. Out of line but come on, physically preventing her from leaving?

[–]DaLateDentArthurDent 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Something you have to consider is fear in the moment. Some people don’t think straight when they’re scared and if she’s frightened because he’s not letting her out of his sight then what’s gonna happen if she tries to leave?

It’s fear

[–]L0to 2 points3 points  (2 children)

She never said she was afraid at any point, she said she was uncomfortable. There is a difference.

[–]DaLateDentArthurDent 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Her actions fall in line with someone who is scared

[–]L0to 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess I would put more stock in that if that was how she described the encounter, but she never described it that way in her own account. You are interpreting her actions when you don't even know exactly went down; you only know her account of what happened, and even in her own account she doesn't say she was scared.

[–]shsmoke 12 points13 points  (12 children)

Women gotta help themselves. He clearly wasnt violent or anything, he shouldnt be publicly ruined for this.

As another user pointed out, when some people are being attacked or molested they freeze up. For god's sake, some people freeze when they have to do public speaking; it's entirely reasonable that a woman can't articulate herself clearly when a guy is repeatedly ramming his fingers down her throat.

[–]otterly-adorable 27 points28 points  (11 children)

People often experience tonic immobility during sexual assault. We talk about fight and flight but people often freeze during high stress moments. I don’t like this line of questioning. It puts the onus on people to prevent their own assault rather than focusing on teaching informed consent. I would rather time be dedicated to preventative measures than cause further trauma for people coping with the aftermath of sexual violence.

[–]Juniperthrowit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I didn't really understand this "freezing" or "just taking it" until it happened to me. At a certain point you feel so scared, hopeless and overpowered you start to try to mitigate damage.

For me, I could only think stop squirming around it will only excite him more. This is happening, just accept it and get Plan B in the morning.

I never thought I would be in that position until I was already there. The problem is you can say no in a million different ways, show you're very much scared and you don't want to. But if the other person doesn't care or chooses not to accept no, it becomes meaningless.

[–]AFineDayForScience 5 points6 points  (2 children)

This wasn't tonic immobility. This is tonic immobility https://i.imgur.com/ZwntYWa.gif This lady went to the bathroom, splashed water on her face, came back, and gave him head. She may have been uncomfortable, but the onus is still on her to be explicit when expressing her feelings rather than assuming someone will pick up on nonverbal cues, and statements beginning with um, maybe, or I dunno.

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I would argue that the onus is on the pursuer for getting explicit permission for sexual activity.

Also, she WAS explicit. She even got to the point where she said no, told him she didn't want to have sex, and he agreed they'd just watch some TV on the couch with clothes on. And then he tried undoing her pants again!!!

[–]TagaKain 10 points11 points  (0 children)

She may have been uncomfortable, but the onus is still on her to be explicit

Nahh, the onus is on the initiator that there is enthusiastic consent for the particular action.

[–]WhatsTheDealWith-- 9 points10 points  (2 children)

This!

She said she game of behavioural signals, dafuq is that, you cant come with this me too stuff if you sat and blew him and at no point actually asked him to stop, she only said slow down a sec and chill.

You think if this was just the local walmart chashier there would be a big deal about it??

[–]guiltyofnothing 3 points4 points  (1 child)

She said she game of behavioural signals, dafuq is that

I think this is pretty revealing of you.

you cant come with this me too stuff if you sat and blew him and at no point actually asked him to stop, she only said slow down a sec and chill.

She made it clear she wasn’t ok with what was going on multiple times. It’s the textbook definition of coercion.

[–]menoum_menoum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He clearly wasnt violent or anything

As opposed to everyone else on the brochette of comedians and actors recently disgraced for similar behavior?

[–]imthelittleone -1 points0 points  (0 children)

She did say no - and she also never said yes. She did leave in the end after trying multiple times to physically and verbally say no. Men gotta help themselves, she clearly wasn't physically aroused or anything. She knew if she went public she'd be ruined for this so she gave a trusted feminist news outlet her personal information, confirmed chat logs, and multiple sources confirming her story.

[–]tak08810 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think most people would agree that he was being douchey, and celebrities have gotten their careers hurt or ruined (or people think they should be ruined) for doing douchey things - Kanye, Robin Thicke, Natalia Kills.

[–]senescal 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Man, these cool progressive comedians really need to get their shit sorted out.

[–]age_of_cage 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Wow, who would've thought such a vocal proponent of respecting women would turn out to be a rapey creep? Again.

[–]iSkinMonkeys 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I hope kalpenn the creep is the next pretentious perv to be ousted.

[–]CristobalNeolan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looks like he tried to be the master of someone

[–]MasterTeacher123 5 points6 points  (3 children)

It’s a pattern of self described male feminists who are getting unmasked as people who harm women

[–]LalaeSala 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Harvey Weinstein was doing a documentary about rape victims or something too, pretty good cover. Almost like men pretend to be feminists to shield themselves from being outed as creepy perverts and/or rapists

[–]Dogenewnew 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Clearly I misread things in the moment.

"Well, she squirms when I'm near, and also she said that she wasn't comfortable, that must mean that she's into it."

[–]jheller22 29 points30 points  (6 children)

She also went on a date, went back to his place, kissed him, gave him a handjob, gave him a blowjob (twice), and then stuck around to continue with the heavy petting. I think this can fairly be described as mixed signals.

[–]LikeARoss0708 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Him and Chef Jeff really do do everything together. Honestly, though this is heartbreaking, I'm a big fan of Aziz so hearing about this really puts a bad taste in my mouth. I'm shocked because of how a lot of Master of None is (being openly against all this) but in cases like these you have to trust her, truly heartbreaking.

[–]comfort_eagle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This makes me wonder if he had a motive for writing that Chef Jeff storyline.

[–]adrian_4891 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Man this looks really bad , I am a huge Aziz fan but this detailed account and text message make him look really bad.This will kind of send his career down the drain , not that he doesn’t deserve that for what he did.I hope he take a long break get his shit together.

[–]gingerbread6 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Surprise surprise another male feminist outed as an abuser.

[–]Fartfegnugen 7 points8 points  (76 children)

What are "clear non-verbal cues" that she was "uncomfortable"? Sometimes, cues are not as clear as we think. I've missed out on a couple of hookups because I didn't realize I was being sent, what some would consider, obvious signals.

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 37 points38 points  (19 children)

What are "clear non-verbal cues" that she was "uncomfortable"?

This is the full story. If half of what she says happened actually did happen, this is pretty shitty of him.

[–]ChameleonTwist 23 points24 points  (1 child)

I thought the article of OP's post was bad enough but this is just something else. What the hell, Aziz?

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 17 points18 points  (0 children)

She apparently confronted him about it via text and he said in response, “I’m so sad to hear this, Clearly, I misread things in the moment and I’m truly sorry.” So yeah, that makes it pretty clear that SOMETHING happened that night. This was a text exchange the next day, too, so it's not like she felt weird weeks later. This was immediate.

[–]Dogenewnew 16 points17 points  (55 children)

Yeah, but then she also says it.

And also, could be squirming, keeping away, not touching, crossing arms, staying in one place, trying to get smaller.

Like also, if you're not sure, ask.

I mean come on.

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 30 points31 points  (1 child)

"Where do you want me to fuck you?"

"Next time."

Pretty clear that she didn't want to have sex that night.

[–]monstertrucknuts 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I’m getting sick and tired of these accusations. Tell it to the police not the nearest newspaper.

[–]guiltyofnothing 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This whole article is gross and Aziz looks really, really bad.

Anyone who says it was “confusing” or that she was giving off “mixed signals” didn’t read it. She was clearly uncomfortable, expressed that multiple times, and was still pressured and coerced.

This is awful.

[–]sockstheshrimp 3 points4 points  (21 children)

Edited because this post will probably blow up in the morning and I'm not too keen on responding to 15 different arguments, I also did not have the full story at the time of making it, as the article leaves a lot out

[–]Damn_Dog_Inappropes 36 points37 points  (7 children)

Or saying no?

She did say no. She also told him, "Next time" when he asked her where she wanted him to fuck her. Pretty clear she didn't necessarily want to be doing anything with him at that point.

[–]Bobthuhog 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This girl is just trying to exploit a celeb

[–]BigShotZero 1 point2 points  (2 children)

How would her point of view play out in a court of law?

Lawyer - so you went to his apartment and sat you in the counter and began making out.

Girl - yes

L- you started to kiss and he mentioned getting a condom and you said you did not want sex? But he forced you to have sex.

G- yes that is correct about the counter but he did not force me to have sex. He said ok to the no sex and went down on me instead.

L- so he started to go down on you and you moved away?

G- no I let him do that.

L - oh... but when he was finished you made it clear you were not interested?

G- not exactly. I performed oral sex on him.... but mind you in my mind I was not really into it.

L- so he knew you weren’t into it?

G- well no I did not say I wast but in my mind I was thinking I did not want to do it.

L- ok so you finish blowing him and you try to leave and he won’t let you?

G - no I stayed. We hung out for a bit and he made some more advances at me that I rejected.

L- so he forced himself onto you?

G- no he just stopped making the advance for a bit. Then I went to the bathroom to clear my mind and came back into the room and blew him.

L- wait what? You sucked his dick again? I thought you weren’t Into him?

G- well I wasn’t but he asked a few times and you know that was enough for me to blow him again

L- ok but then you left out of fear?

G - no I hung out longer and we went to his bedroom.

L- he forced you into the bedroom, now we are getting somewhere. This is where he forced you to have sex?

G- no did not force me into the bedroom. no he made some advances and rubbed against me. I told him no and he stopped. Then I called a cab and left.

L- let’s recap. He made sexual advances. Sometimes you said not interested and he stopped. To then make separate advances that you willingly responded with by putting his penis in your mouth. He never physically forced you to do anything. Never made a threat. Never stopped you from leaving.

G- that’s correct.

Now lawyer going after Aziz

L- tell me what happened that night.

Aziz - me and the girl went out on a date. Went back to my place. We fooled around a bit. She said she did not want to screw but then blew me. Said she was not interested but then blew me again. Then went to my bedroom. I thought I was going to get laid but she said she was not wanting to screw so she left. I mean hell I got 2 blow jobs already so I was good to go.

Now what does the jury decide?

[–]ObamaBigBlackCaucus -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

to;dr: Aziz is definitely a creep, plausibly a sexual predator.

[–]rorschach8989 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are already perplexed already.

[–]psxpetey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These posts are going to go on forever aren’t they

[–]DEEPnDirty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a half Indian man in comedy, this is great news for me.

[–]spiiierce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think both are at fault here. Dude is a creep on dates and can’t fucking take a hint cus he’s a horny creep. Does that make him a bar person? Kind of. But we all have bad qualities. She could’ve left at any point but I understand she was fearful and was pushed.

I just didn’t like how she complained about him rushing her during wine time or picking wine for her. Like come on, you’re worried about the wine or are you worried about him sexually assaulting you?